SPEAKER_00
Today is a super special episode as I'm talking to one of my dear clients about the lessons she's learned in building her jewelry business after hitting burnouts in the corporate world and what that has looked like for her, the lessons she's learned along the way. But before we dive in, I want to take one minute just to remind you that if you've been listening to the podcast on a regular basis, if you really resonate with my approach to business and you have found it really empowering and helpful in your business building journey and you're ready to kind of up level your business, you're ready for more support, you're ready to take intentional and strategic action, you're ready to embrace the support and the community aspect of building a business, then I would love to invite you to join me in the jewelry business academy. You guys know it is the most expansive container for jewelry business owners wanting to grow and scale their business and you are going to get my eyes on your business every single week.

So if that's something that feels exciting to you, if that feels supportive to you, if you are ready to take your business seriously and really invest in yourself and invest your time and energy into your business over the next few months and see growth, see results, then head to jewelrybusinessacademy.ca to learn more and I will see you on the other side. My name is Robin Clark and I'm obsessed with all things business and marketing.

I'm a jewelry designer who left the corporate world and grew a successful jewelry business and now I help women just like you from around the world do the same. I'm the founder and CEO of the jewelry business academy, the host of the jewelry business academy podcast and I'm here to help you scale your jewelry business to six figures and beyond without burning out. Through my coaching program and podcast, I help you navigate the challenging seasons of business as well as teach you the secrets to building a sustainable business that makes you feel good.

So grab a cup of tea and your notebook, get cozy and let's dive in. Hello guys and welcome back. It's so good to have you here with me today.

It is a rainy, rainy morning but honestly, there's nothing I love more than being in my cozy studio recording and looking out at the rain outside. It just makes me feel so cozy and so excited to be connecting with you guys and I am really looking forward to sharing this episode with you because I had such a wonderful conversation with one of my dear clients, Julia Duff, who is the founder and designer behind Julia Duff jewelry and she's also the host of the elemental connections podcast. So Julia designs and makes really minimal, gender inclusive jewelry to really empower and connect you and as I said, this is an extra special episode because she has been a member of the jewelry business academy for a couple of months now.

She's still in the very early stages but today she's going to be sharing the lessons that she's learned in her first few months of building her jewelry business and we're also going to be diving into how she transitioned into her jewelry business after hitting burnout in the corporate world. So we talk about so much in our conversation. We talked about Julia's transition from being an architect to a jewelry designer and what that's looked like for her, what to do when you find yourself in a career that is kind of okay.

You kind of like it but it's not really fulfilling you. It's not lighting your soul on fire and how do you go about creating space so you can find your true purpose in this world. We talk about hitting burnout post COVID and learning how to take care of yourself and creating that space for your creativity to really thrive and we also talk a little bit about breaking down big goals into small manageable steps and how to do that effectively.

Julia shares her experience of going through seasons where she's felt unmotivated, listless and just lacking purpose and how she's managed to find inner peace and purpose in her life. And we talk about the different types of burnout, how it can affect different people in different ways and how if you actually are able to find your true purpose, you will get more energized in your life and you will be able to show up with a lot more energy than you currently are if you are currently going through a tough season. We talk about imposter syndrome, becoming the author of your own life and all the lessons that Julia has learned over the first few months of building her jewelry business and going all in on her dreams and her advice to anyone wanting to give themselves the best chance at success in their business.

So this is a really wonderful conversation. I think you guys are really going to enjoy it and if you are listening to this, I would love for you to take one second to screenshot the episode you're listening to and tag me on Instagram. It's Robin Clark coaching.

I love hearing from you. I love knowing that you're listening to these episodes and that they're uplifting you and inspiring you and one other request before we dive in. If there's anybody in your life that you know would really love this podcast, if you know there's somebody who is building their jewelry business or wanting to build their jewelry business and you know that they would get so much value and motivation and support from the jewelry business academy podcast, it would mean the world to me and to them.

If you could take a second to also just share the link, share it, send them a quick message, be like, hey, I was thinking about you and I really think that you're going to enjoy this podcast. Not only are they going to be grateful, but we're going to be able to spread our message, spread our support and have such a much bigger impact on empowering and supporting business owners from around the world on their journeys because building businesses can feel so lonely, it can feel challenging at times, it can feel tough and we want to uplift and support as many people as we can through this podcast. Thank you in advance for doing that and I think we'll dive right in now.

Julia, it's so good to have you on the Jewelry Business Academy podcast today. Thanks so much for joining me. Thanks so much for

SPEAKER_01
having me Robin. It feels really exciting to come full circle and be now a guest again.

SPEAKER_00
I'm a guest on your podcast. I know because you were listening to the podcast a little bit before you joined the Jewelry Business Academy. So for anyone who's listening, I have been working with Julia for a couple of months now.

You've been a part of the Jewelry Business Academy. Is it three or four months now, I think? I think, yeah, something like that. Yeah, a couple of months, but I actually feel like you've been part of the program for like a lot longer.

So I got to know you and your business really at a really deep level and I'm so excited for you because you're kind of still in the early stages of your business, which is just it's such a fun stage of business. There's so much growth. There's so much just expansion in that season of business and excitement and new things.

And I'm looking forward to diving into all of that with you today. And also side note, Julia is South African. I'm also South African.

So we connected on our first call because I was like, oh my gosh, your accent just sounds like home. And you know, when you're living abroad and we love living abroad, but also when you hear that accent, it just takes you straight back to home and it's like, it's very comforting to hear. So do you want to just start us off, Julia, by giving us a little intro as to who you are, your business, how you kind of got into your business, and then we'll go from

SPEAKER_01
there. Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Julia and my jewelry brand is called Julia Duff, which is actually my middle name as well.

I was an architect. I studied architecture in South Africa and then I moved to the Netherlands almost 13 years ago. I always loved doing creative things.

But somehow, I don't know, over the years, you find yourself in a career or something that is maybe not necessarily 100% fulfilling you. And it can be difficult to put your finger on the reason why. But I guess when we're not feeling 100% satisfied, we also start searching a little bit of like, okay, where can I find that joy? So when was it maybe about six years ago, I started doing a jewelry making course with her now a very good friend of mine, Sandra Cervelli.

She has her own jewelry line as well. And that was just such an eye opener for me. It was like, oh my gosh, I really, really loved it because also as an architect, you think you're going to be busy with your hands making models like you were in university, but actually you end up spending the majority of your time behind the computer.

So it was just so wonderful for me just to get back that sense of tactility and be making something with my hands and also having full control of the design process and just like having an idea, sketching it and trying it. And then after a few hours, you have something that you can hold in your hands. That was just magic for me.

So it stayed as a hobby for quite a few years. I think after some years I started to build and I remember like every morning I would cycle to work and I would be fantasizing about changing careers and going into jewelry full time, but it seemed like such an unattainable dream. So I sort of kept it small and didn't even really let myself fully dream it because it just seemed so crazy.

And then, yeah, Corona hit. And, you know, we start to question everything and I sort of lost a lot of motivation. And then out of that, I actually hit quite a big burnout when I had to come back to work.

And that just spun off into this whole, you know, very long trajectory of really when I started coming out of it of thinking, what do I really want and what really is going to make me happy. And then the jewelry dream resurfaced. And actually thanks to your podcast as well, I got the courage to say, okay, I'm going to go for this dream.

So that's a little bit the shorts and sweet version. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I love it. I love it. And you know, I think what you shared when you were talking about the fact that you were an architect and it's something that you had wanted to do for many years and it's not that you hated it.

It's like you kind of, it sounds like you quite enjoyed that job, but it wasn't like fulfilling you at like a soul level from what I hear. Is that correct? Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that when you're in that position where things are okay, it's actually very hard to make a shift. Very hard.

It's much easier when things are like very much hellish. And you just like, get me out of here, I'll do anything. Like that's much easier to shift from than from a job, which is like, okay, it's like, yeah, it's going okay.

It's the same as relationships. Like it's much easier to leave. If it's bad, then if it's like, okay.

So, you know, I think a lot of our listeners are going to resonate with that because I think there's a lot of people who are in a similar position to where you were a few years ago. And you know, the coronavirus definitely threw a spanner in everyone's lives. And there was a lot of bad things that came from that, but there's also a lot of benefits.

I think, you know, the fact that we were forced to pause and to kind of reevaluate where we're spending our time, our energy, how we're moving through life, like it kind of got everyone off the hamster wheel for a good amount of time, enough for us to like become more self aware again and be like, well, is this how I want to be spending my life? Is this how I want to be spending my days? And then the fact that you had to go back, I think you're definitely not alone. I hear so many people who had to go back after that whole lockdown season of life. And it's hard.

It's hard to go back if it wasn't something that you were absolutely loving, especially after that break. So what would your advice be to someone who's listening to this who's like, I'm there right now. I am feeling so burnt out.

I am trying to make this work, but my heart's not in it. And I know I want to like build this jewelry business potentially. But you know, I'm just, I just don't even have the headspace to think about it because I'm just trying to survive right now.

What would your advice be to them?

SPEAKER_01
I think well, step one with for me was in this whole journey of learning is just actually learning to take care of myself. And I waited too long for that that I ended up having a burnout and like the body says no. So I think if you're in that sort of space, number one would just be to try and slow down in whatever way is possible to you.

You know, maybe that's just on your weekends or maybe it's just cutting down on some social stuff and just coming back to yourself and just allowing yourself try to find that space where you can actually, you know, let the creativity flow and then maybe some opportunities will come to you that way. And I think what I've also learned from you is such a big thing is just to break it down and see if there are some really small steps that you could take towards your dream and also let yourself dream, you know, I think that's also a massive thing. I didn't really let myself dream that for a very long time.

And when I was coming out of my burnout, I was also working with a career coach, she helped me immensely, she was also fantastic. And at some point it's quite crazy if I think back that I'd been working with her for, I don't know, eight months or something like that. And we went on this whole roundabout journey.

And at the end of the eight months, I was like, yeah, well, actually, I kind of wanted to have my own jewelry brand. And she was like, what? Like, okay, wow, hold up. We're going to save this for the next session.

But it sounds like you really just need to give yourself the opportunity to dream this dream, you know, and I just went and like, I had a really an evening for myself. I was journaling and I was just, yeah, like having a really nice moment to just like, allow this dream to, to be in front of me and write it down and look at the words, you know, because that was the biggest step. Yeah. So if someone is struggling, would say, you know, let yourself dream the dream.

SPEAKER_00
Oh my goodness, I just got goosebumps when you said that. Because yeah, I think especially after COVID, the world did feel like it was falling apart for a lot of people. For me, I felt like it was literally falling to pieces.

And so it's very hard to even allow yourself to dream when you're in that mindset. And then again, if you've been brought up in a way where you know, those standard jobs are just the way that you go, the career that you follow, you need to follow some kind of standard career that's already been in place and established and that you know about. It's also again, very hard to see a jewelry business as even like vaguely potential for replacing that career.

So I think so many people are going to need to have heard that like allow yourself to dream and having creating space in your calendar is going to give you that headspace to start dreaming and start seeing the potential of what's out there. And one of the things I say all the time you've probably heard me say this so much is like, curate who you're following on Instagram and what podcasts you're listening to and listen to people who've done what it is that you're dreaming to do so that you are just inundated with evidence that that dream that you have is possible. There's all these people who've done it.

And I think when you immerse yourself in that world, it starts becoming like less like, oh, there's no way I could do this to more like, oh, well, this person's done it, this person's done it, this person's done it. There's no reason why I can't like at least try and make it work as well. So thank you for sharing that.

And I just want to quickly touch on burnout because we throw the word burnout out there all the time. But I was talking to another business owner the other day and you know, everyone has different versions of burnout. I have hit burnout where I couldn't physically get out of bed for weeks, couldn't even lift my arm.

Like I was immensely weak. But then some people have burnout where they're like, no, I'm still getting things done, but I just don't I've lost that spark. And so like, I would like to know what your version of burnout looked like so that somebody who's listening can like, maybe there's people who will feel like, oh, you know, I didn't even recognize that this was potentially burnout.

SPEAKER_01
Yeah, for sure. Indeed. It's so different for different people. So I think what happened with me, it was almost like a slow, a slow build up to it.

And that was the build up of getting to work from home, which actually suits my personality really well. And then being told, no, now we're going to have to go back five days a week to the office. And that moment, it sort of built up to such a stress that when I came into the office that day, I just couldn't control my tears.

And it was just like a kind of panic attack that set in that happened twice. So I think it's for me, it was like this feeling out of control of your emotions, where normally it might be a stressful situation. And you could say, Oh, I maybe feel like the urge to cry, or I feel uncomfortable, but I'm able to sort of tame it.

Or maybe I can let it out later, or maybe I can just move on. This was just like uncontrollable. So I think that was a major emotion.

And that's sort of from that moment, it felt like something broke for many months, I feel like, you know, now finally, it's mostly mostly under control and I feel really good. But it felt like from that moment, something changed. And I had been trying so hard to hold up this facade of being okay, or just going along with what other people wanted me to do and to fit in this sort of mold.

And at that moment, I was like, I literally can't go back into that little box anymore. And then after that, it was a sort of not as intense as you describe of not being able to lift my arm and so on, but it was just like a listlessness and just not having any motivation. And I think there are some warning signs that come before that of, you know, I went through different stages of not really enjoying what I was doing.

And at some point we like, no, but I'm going to change it and you have a bit of energy and fight to do something. But then once you slip into a different stage of not caring, that's the dangerous part. So I think that's a bit of a warning sign that was a prelude to the burnout of like, not really, not really caring anymore.

And that sort of carried through afterwards into the burnout after I had these kind of panic attack moments. So yeah, it was just, yeah, and also purposelessness, because I hadn't decided, okay, I'm going to go for my jewellery visit. And I just felt like I had failed and I couldn't control.

And that was the biggest issue for me. And then once you're at home and you're not working, then it becomes this loop of feeling not really feeling useful. So I honestly think that having decided for I'm going to go for the jewellery and I have a new purpose in my life that helped me like actually healed me 100%.

It's like, from going from having no energy to there was also a physical aspect of it. Like I went back to South Africa a few months when I got back to the Netherlands, I remember having to cycle around and I just, I just couldn't, I just had no energy. You know, now I was just today biking all around the city.

And I thought I was thinking back to when I was in my burnout. I was like, when I this a few months ago, I couldn't even do this. It was just exhausting.

So I've lost my train of thought a little bit. But I think that's the the main, having the purpose, you know, so I love a massive

SPEAKER_00
one. I love that you bought this up so much because this is what I've seen with myself and with like so many business owners is when, when people hit burnout, they think that, oh, maybe I'm just doing too much. I just have to pull back.

And sometimes that may be the case. But more often than not, when I see people with severe burnout or like what you described or what I had, it's actually not that you're doing too much and you're not taking care of yourself. It's that you are spending your energy on something that doesn't fulfill your purpose.

And so when you actually get clear on that, I think what most people need, I think Jay Shetty says this all the time, people are looking for inner peace and purpose, those two main things. And if you can fulfill those, you're going to be content. I mean, nobody should be chasing happiness.

You can have moments of happiness. You're never going to be happy all the time. You're going to experience all these emotions.

But if you can get inner peace and purpose, it is going to serve you so much. And that's what I found with me when I hit burnout. It's because I lost my sense of purpose.

And I thought it was because I was doing too much. But actually, I was just spending my time and energy on things that no longer fulfilled me. And it sounds like for you, it's like, yeah, it doesn't take that much energy to go sit in an office job and do your job.

You have been doing it for years. You knew how to do it, your effects have added. But it's like what drains you.

And what I've seen is that when you're spending your time and energy on something that no longer fulfills you and no longer serves you, it just wipes you out completely. And then when you find your purpose, like now you've found, I want to build this business, I've seen how much time and energy you've poured into it. And you're still kind of recovering from burnout.

But you get this new surge of energy when you are following and doing work on something that fulfills you deeply. Does that resonate with you?

SPEAKER_01
Yeah, 100%. I think also one of my previous colleagues, she also suffered from something similar, but she described it as a bore out, which I thought was quite interesting as well. That's great.

That's great. But yeah, I mean, interesting way of putting it. But absolutely, I'm still sometimes amazed at how much energy I have in the day.

And like, I just think, wow, I'm still I'm still ready to go because when you're doing it for yourself, it's just a completely different ballgame.

SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah, 100%. So, you know, I know there's so much that I want to touch on that you've shared. I'm just like, I have to make sure we keep this in an hour.

But I think one of the things I do want to chat about is, you know, you've been in the Dory Business Academy now for a few months, you've been part of our community, you've connected with the other jewelers. And before we dive into like your experience of being in the Academy, can you just share how you were feeling before we started working together? Like what challenges were you facing before we kind of got together and dived into your business with you?

SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so it was, I really have a vivid memory of this time because it felt like it was this total pivot moment for me. So I had decided to go on a nice trip away with my boyfriend and just before that, I had also been sending, I can only think of the Dutch word, solicit at sea. What is it? Like when you tried to get a job? What is it called? Oh, yeah, right.

Amazing. Yeah, so I was sending out to get a job. Yeah, sorry, I can't speak English properly anymore.

No, that's perfect. And I just, you know, I just felt like I had to do that because, you know, my money was going to run out and I needed to get a job. And although everything in my body was still having this like allergic reaction, like I felt good on a normal day to day, but when it came to the work and imagining I'm going to have to sit in an office somewhere, it still felt like I was back at square one.

But nevertheless, I was sending out these applications. And one of them was quite a nice office. I must say, for the first time, I felt quite excited about it.

And in the meantime, I would just started listening to your podcast. So this was sort of an underlay going on. And then we went away on this great trip, we went to, went to Vietnam.

And towards the end of the trip, I heard that I didn't get this job, this other job. And I was actually really upset because I thought it was finally something that kind of fitted. So I was feeling really, really upset.

But I remember I was like, I couldn't sleep the night that I heard that I didn't, that I didn't get it. And I was just like listening to your podcast and try like in the meantime. And it really felt like, you know, when I think back, it's so meant to be.

But if it wasn't for your podcast, I wouldn't have had the courage to actually think that this is a viable option, that this is actually something that I can do. So when I got back from the trip, you know, I was just feeling pretty low because I was like, okay, my only sort of way out that seemed like the least, the best of the worst options has fallen through. And now what am I going to do? And there was just this tiny voice and you know, saying like, hello, like, you know, there's the jewelry, it's been staring at you in the face all the time.

And then I was just kind of constantly listening, I like totally benched all of your episodes. And it just gave such a sense of hope. And like, you can do this, you know, and you've you spoke about many different types of businesses, some of them are like more advanced and some are just getting started.

And I just sort of thought, okay, I'm just going to give it a try, you know, I've done have anything to lose. So we hopped on the call. And I was just like, Oh, my gosh, you're saying, Yeah, for sure, you definitely are a great candidate.

You know, and I think I suffered a lot before this with like imposter syndrome, like, Oh, I don't know anything about business. And I'm not really established. And you're like, No, that's not a problem.

This is perfect. If you're just getting started, because instead of having to redo everything, we can do it properly the first time around. So then it was so exciting.

I remember being quite scared about the initial investment, because I was like, Oh, my gosh, you know, I don't have an income properly at this moment. But for like 100%, I'm so, I'm so happy that I that I chose to do that and actually chose for myself. Because I think for a long time before this, I remember this feeling of like, thinking, I'm going to wake up as an old lady and have this massive regrets that I never just tried and I never went for this dream.

And I sort of, I was accepting that that was going to be the case. And now thanks to your program as well, even if let's say something doesn't work down the line, at least I know I've tried and I'm going for it fullheartedly. And that just gives me so, so much satisfaction and joy.

Like I can't, can't even tell you. So that was a little bit the prelude to the tipping into the program.

SPEAKER_00
Oh, my goodness, I'm hearing this because I didn't know the story before. I didn't know all the details. But you know, one thing I just want to touch on quickly is the fact that, you know, looking at like your 80 year old self looking back on your life, I do this all the time when I have to make decisions because it's so we have to make so many decisions on a daily basis that can be overwhelming.

And I have two approaches for doing this. One is to say, well, if I had a daughter, what advice would I give them? Because we usually give them way better advice than we give ourselves. And if I was 80 looking back on my life, what would I give it my advice then? Like what would I have hoped that I did and what would I had hoped that I tried? And there's this one other image as well.

I just want to share all of these quickly because I think it may be helpful for anyone who's who some struggles with decisions. But I remember seeing this cartoon thing randomly many years ago where somebody went died and they went to heaven. And they were like checking into heaven and behind this angel, they saw these shelves of boxes.

And there was just a few boxes that have been opened. And they're like, what's that? And they're like, those are all the things you could have been in your life. Those are all the things that we had in store for you.

And you just didn't like go for them. You just went for these like three boxes at the beginning. And we had all these other opportunities for you, but you just didn't choose to take them, which is totally fine.

And I just remember thinking like, whoa, like, I don't want that to be me. And so whenever I'm making these type of decisions, like those are the three different perspectives I'm looking at. And I think when we talk about failure, I was listening to a podcast about this the other day and it rarely hits home.

We're so scared of failing because of what other people are going to think of us if we fail. But to me, failure is just not trying. I would rather fail a million times than a million different things.

I've actually never been scared of failure in business. What I have been scared of is saying, Oh, I want to start a business, but I'm just going to dabble or go like half half and see how it goes. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work because then I'm always going to know it didn't work because I only dabble or I didn't work because I only gave 50%.

And I wonder what would have happened if I gave a bit more. I wonder what would have happened if I put my whole heart and soul into that. And I think about that like for everything like business and relationships, all of this, like, I just want to know I'm okay with it failing.

I'm okay with relationships failing. Just want to know that I put 100% in and like my best at that time. So that you know, like, okay, well, it wasn't meant to be I tried, I did my best, I learned all these lessons and then you can move on.

But yeah, the thought of, I think when we look back of our 80 year old selves looking back on our lives and being like, Oh, I wish they tried that instead of just like sitting at that desk all day long, like, you know, you have so much life to live. But I want to dive a little bit more into this because you actually did a recent post on Instagram, which I loved you were celebrating I think you're 3.5 months anniversary in your business or something like that.

Yeah, yeah. And you were talking about your business building journey and how you feel like you already have a new degree in life and you've learned so much about yourself. And you feel like you've actually started a new life that you're the author of.

And I just love the way that you frame this because to me, business building is more than just building a business that gives you that financial security and freedom and all of that. It's about getting to know you yourself finding your voice and getting like growing so much as an individual. And I feel like you already captured that in that post.

But do you want to share a little bit more about like how just you're 3.5 maybe you four months and now how much growth you've experienced as an individual and how you feel like, you know, you're now the author of your life again.

SPEAKER_01
Yeah, indeed. That was a that was a nice post that really came from the came from the heart because I really mean it. And sometimes I feel like even more than just the business, the actual jewelry, this has just been such such a lesson in actually self worth.

Which I must say is also really a lot thanks to you. Maybe I'm going to just digress a little bit there because I also feel like I have never been in such an encouraging environment. And I think without that, it was very difficult, maybe especially for women to really find that confidence and belief in themselves.

So this has just been so so refreshing and just also having you there to be like, go for it, go for it and don't care what other people think. And that has also been such a major learning curve for me and especially also the relationship with with Instagram and doing my own podcast and just all of these things where it's like, this feels really uncomfortable. But doing it and practicing it, it's it makes me feel really, really good.

And it's just like, just just be you just try to be as authentic as you can. And things will come to you and people will will resonate with that who need to resonate with that and people who don't like it can just find something else that's totally fine. So I think learning that along the way with this, this business has just been such a massive life lesson for me.

Also struggling my whole life a bit with self confidence and a bit the same pasta syndrome. So I feel like this is maybe my big lesson to learn first and hopefully the business grows along with that as I so grow in my confidence. And also just what I've been loving is having to do a little bit of everything like it's very intense, because I'm also doing the making I'm literally I'm doing everything and it can be difficult to, to prioritize and time management and all of that.

But I think also what you've provided in the in the training at the program is really breaking everything down to help with these things because I really come from also very creative backgrounds as an architect and then we just learn about, you know, making concepts and form and shape and but nothing about business. I think at high school, I did like a one semester as with business. And so it's such a lack, you know, of my knowledge and also with marketing.

So it's been from that aspect, just also like thrown in the deep end. And I'm sure I'm still making massive mistakes, but it's okay because it's also fun. And it's just like, it also feels really empowering to learn all of these different skills.

SPEAKER_00
Amazing. Yeah, I love hearing that. I think, well, there's a lot that I want to touch on.

But I think the fact that we don't, we don't learn a lot of the life skills that we need to survive as or thrive as human beings in school, even just the basic things of building our confidence, like we learn languages, but we don't learn how to find our voice and communicate properly, you know, and I have a lot to say on this. Yes. And it's like, and yeah, we learn business concepts, but we don't learn how to actually build businesses. I wish I could go and like dive into the school system a bit more because my parents were in that they were teachers, principals and stuff in school systems for many years.

So like, like, I have a, I see their perspective on it, but I also see like, all these concepts of being like learning about business versus building a business is very, very different. Why not get all the 14 year olds to build their own business? Why are we not doing that? It's so much more fun, so much more interactive. Doesn't have to be an actual business that makes it long term, but you learn so much when you're actually doing and taking the action.

I totally gone off track here.

SPEAKER_01
But this is a whole nother app, because I think we both quite passionate about this, you know, especially after going through also this burn out. I'm like, what the hell? Like we're all just being trained to not listen to our bodies, you know, so.

SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah. No, it makes me so angry when I think about it, because you go through like the whole school system is trained to make out little people who are going to thrive in the corporate environment. That's essentially what it is.

But we can dive. Well, we'll bring you back on and we'll dive into this deeper. But you know, I think, yeah, everything that you said makes a lot of sense.

And I'd love to know, because you've been on our group coaching calls, you've been like working with me. What would you say has been like your favorite part of being in the Jory Business Academy and working with me as you grow your business?

SPEAKER_01
I think surprisingly enough, I really love this Facebook group. And I do have to confess that when we first had our call and you said, Oh, there's a Facebook group. I just thought, Oh my God, what is that? I don't I don't have a Facebook.

What I do, but I never look at it. I was like, Facebook, what? But now I just, I had to also giggle to myself because the other day I was, I was maybe it was with our business buddies that I was saying, isn't it amazing this Facebook group? Because it's almost like, you know, in life when you have a problem and you kind of think, I wish there was like a Google for God that you could just spread like, I have this issue. Can you tell me the answer? Well, we have it with you with the Jory Business Academy.

Because literally, if you have any issue, you could just write the question and then you come up with really, really insightful feedback, which is so incredible. And I just don't know of any other sort of system or group or anything where that's that is so supportive. So that has just been incredible to just know that there is a place where you could share your, your, your troubles or your wins and you're going to get some really supportive feedback.

And then also every now and then also giving some encouragement to other people that feels really amazing.

SPEAKER_00
Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that. I agree.

I think we have like a really special Facebook group, like community in there. And it's the people that make it. It's you and the other members that make it what it is.

And I remember when I was starting that group, I was like, huh, I don't know if people are going to engage him. We had to already structure it in a way that feels safe for everyone because everyone's very open and very vulnerable with what's going on in their business. So we wanted to create a safe space, but we also wanted to be a place where, you know, people feel comfortable just sharing and actually showing up because you can have a group and nobody can post in there.

So I just, I think it's so special how everyone's embraced it and they show up, they show up for themselves, they show up for one another. And yeah, I, I, I totally agree. Having a version of that for just life would be wonderful as well.

I've actually had that before I've had life coaches like that. And it makes a huge difference because it's like, why do we feel like in today's world that we have to go through life and business on our own? Like we need those communities. We need people who understand the journey we're on and aren't going to, when we have these challenges, be like, oh, you're overreacting or oh, that's not a big deal or oh, I've never heard of that before.

We need people who understand like, oh yeah, no, this is relevant. Here's how we're going to do it. Here's our next steps.

How does this feel like? Should we look at other alternatives? And again, just keep building that momentum in our business and our life because it's so easy to be inundated with things that are happening and questions that you have and problems that you have. And you're like, I actually don't know what to do here.

SPEAKER_01
And then you get stuck and then you don't move forward. So I think that's the main issue, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00
And you get stuck in that cycle of indecision and inaction, which is actually where most entrepreneurs that fail, that's where they fail. They get stuck in that little pot, which is you can, you've seen, it's easy for that to happen. So, you know, I'd love to know what would you say has been one of the biggest lessons that you've learned since joining the Academy?

SPEAKER_01
Oh, I think I have to directly think and I think I even have it written on my little note board here is your favorite quote of take messy action because I'm also from this, like I say, there's more design sort of aesthetic world. And that's very difficult for me sometimes of just like, okay, this isn't perfect, but I'm just going to put it out there anyway. Like, let's say referring to the social media stuff or also in general.

So I think that has been the biggest lesson to just, just do something, just take action and then you're going to get to the next place and then you can improve, you know, instead of just sitting and trying to make it perfect before you let it out into the world and then everything has passed you by already. So.

SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah, messy action is a big thing that we that we prioritize in the Academy and you've really just gone all in and embraced it. I remember when we started working together, like your Instagram was so perfect. And it still looks, it still looks so aesthetic, like, whoops, I just nearly broke the microphone.

It still looks so aesthetic and gorgeous, but you've definitely like softened a bit, you definitely just showing up more real. You found your voice before you were comfortable. I remember when you were starting your podcast, you're like, I'm not too sure about this.

I was like, just do it. We're just going to do it. And like now you look like a natural when, when I see your clips and you're chatting to your guests and are you feeling more comfortable during that?

SPEAKER_01
I must say I still get a little bit the butterflies. Maybe that's a sort of leftover from, from this burnout of kind of controlling the, the regulating the, your reactions. But I think that's kind of normal.

I mean, I used to have that also when I was doing like dancing as a kid. And you know, just before you have to go on stage, you also get a little bit nervous, but it does start to start to get easier. But it's also, it makes you feel very alive as well.

So I kind of, I kind of also enjoy it a little bit. A little bit of nerves isn't so bad.

SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it's kind of excited nerves, which is a good thing. You know, I think it's again, pushing that those growth boundaries of ours and just always just pushing us a little bit outside of our comfort zone to keep the growth happening.

SPEAKER_01
Oh yes, absolutely. And it feels like this has just been one big outside the comfort zone.

SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So what would you say have been some of the wins that you've celebrated since being in the Jory Business Academy, they can be big or small. I know we're still in the early stages with your business.

SPEAKER_01
I think in terms of also just my myself just feeling more, more confident in myself. I think the first time also selling pieces to Stranger was a huge win for me because mostly in the beginning it's just been people that I knew. So I think that first few sales to people outside of the bubble is like, yeah, then it's really kind of proof that actually this can work.

Whereas before you still maybe think, okay, but just, you know, they know me and they like me and this and that. So that was a massive one. I think also what I maybe not a win, but just what I found so much fun was doing the first photo shoot with some models and with a very talented photographer and seeing maybe this vision that I had in my mind of what it could be and then even taken to a next level working with this photographer because he just makes such beautiful stuff and then just what we kind of made together.

That was just such a massive, a massive win. And then, yeah, every step along the way, like finishing the websites and having something that's actually out there, massive win. And I think also last weekend was a massive win for me because I don't know if you remember me speaking about some of these previous events on the calls and I was like, I don't know if this is for me, these events, I find it very draining because also naturally I am kind of an introvert.

I mean, I can, I can chat well and I can socialize, but it's quite exhausting. So I'd had a couple of these mark outdoor markets and one was okay. And then one would felt like a total disaster and I was just completely demoralized.

And I thought, I don't want to don't want maybe I want to cancel the next ones that I've scheduled. But maybe something like what you spoke about earlier, I'm saying, I need to just give 100% and I need to try and do my best because I'm in this, you know, so I thought, okay, I need to upgrade my display a little bit. I need to make sure that it's really as good as it can be.

So I spend a lot of time and energy doing that. And then it really made a big difference. So that was also a major when I felt super proud to be standing at my stall instead of the previous week, I was like, Oh, I don't know if it looks nice.

I was making myself a bit small. And then that really comes through, you know, I think people pick up on that. And so that felt like a really big win of having seen a problem.

And then instead of like getting trampled down by it of like, no, okay, I'm going to make it better. And we're going to get through this. I think that felt really, really good.

SPEAKER_00
I love hearing that. And I don't I hope you're okay with me sharing this. If not, we can edit it out.

But I know we had a conversation, I think it was over Facebook or in one of one of the group calls about the events and the displays. And I know your concern was like, I actually just don't think my price point because your price point is a little higher. And you know, it's handmade jewelry, of course, it's priced perfectly for what you're selling.

But for the events, you're like, I don't think people are going to spend this amount of money at these events. So I'm just not doing like this isn't going to work. And I remember having this conversation.

Well, no, I don't think that's the case. It's not the price point. It's the display isn't attracting that your ideal customer.

SPEAKER_01
And like, do you think like that's that was definitely true because the previous event I also had put the prices on the display and everything was a little bit dark. I mean, I love black and that is my aesthetic, but doesn't always work on an outdoor market display. So then this next one, I didn't have the prices and that really showed like it doesn't really make a difference because people that are really interested, they stay and then they ask and then then you go from there.

So I couldn't use that as an excuse anymore because people that are not my ideal customers still are going to walk by and the other ones, this you know, with my upgrade display elements, they kind of came to me. So that was really, it was really a good lesson to myself because I even during that event on Sunday, some people did just walk by but and then I thought, Oh, is it that they think it's to expensive? I'm like, No, because your prices are not there. So I was still having to retrain myself to get out of that narrative that I convinced myself about.

So it just goes to show and that's definitely true. That's yeah, the price is not the number one factor that makes people

SPEAKER_00
buy or don't doesn't buy. So no, and I'm so glad that you shared that because I definitely know we have some listeners who needed that reminder. Your price is very rarely the reason people are buying or not.

So there's people buying $20,000 rings like $5,000 stuff, $500 stuff, $50 all the time every day. And you know, we have to keep that in mind. It's very rarely the price.

It's usually everything else that goes with it and the way it's being presented. But I just want to also touch on your brand because I know you have chosen to really focus on gender inclusive jewelry. You use the word inclusive.

Yes. Yes. Yes. And I know this was a bit of a like thing that we had quite a few conversations about because let's be honest, it's controversial for some people. And some people love it.

Some people don't. And you've had some controversies around it. And you've had to really get comfortable with that.

So do you whatever you're comfortable sharing, do you want to just talk a little bit about this because this is what a lot of people shy away from and I've really encouraged you to go all in on what it is that you're wanting to do and ignore all the outside voices. And what a lot of people do is they think they listen to the outside voices and they try appeal to everyone. When you do that, you appeal to no one.

And what you're doing like a wedding DJ, right? Like a wedding DJ. It's the worst. I was at a wedding the other day and oh my gosh, they did they did one of those playlist for everyone submitted a song and it's the worst.

Oh my gosh. And that's kind of what happens with businesses when people like oh, but I don't want to offend anyone and I don't want anyone not to like me. I want everyone to like me.

Well, then nobody likes you. And what you've done is you're just like, yeah, it's uncomfortable. There's going to be some people upset or whatever.

But this is what I believe in. This is what's true to me and authentic to me and what I'm wanting to support and put out into the world. And you're having to just like move forward with that despite knowing some people are going to have big issues with it.

And so I know we've talked about this, but what would your like, how have you navigated that and just decided to like keep moving forward despite that?

SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so this has been definitely a challenging point because I think what you also encourage us to do in the beginning of the JBA is really get clear on the foundations. What is your message? What is all about? So if the foundation is shaky, then everything is shaky, right? So that's that needs to be a really solid base. So I think when was that? I don't know, like two months ago or a month ago, I had a little bit of a shaky, wobbly moment because a very good friend of mine who's a yeah, who I really also really value his opinion came to me and was like, what is it? What is up with this gender inclusive thing? Like, why are you even saying that? Like, you know, why, why it's not like your story? Why, why is this so prevalent in your wording and in your Instagram and everything? And it got me really, really upset.

Like I kind of went into it a little bit with him, but it was more like after that, I was derailed for about two weeks. But I think it was a necessary thing because it really made me go back and really look at like, why do I want this? Is this true to me and really just get very clear on that. So I'm actually very grateful for him for asking me these questions.

So I feel like more equipped to do that now. I think it was just really honestly for me when I was starting out, I was just really kind of going between the two of like, okay, you know, am I going to be only doing women's jewelry or am I going to say no, that it's actually men's jewelry? Because before I officially started, I was making things for myself. My boyfriend was always wearing it friends and they didn't seem to be any distinction in that because my style is very, very bold and minimal.

So that actually then became the essence of what I'm doing. And I'm like, I don't want to have to choose and that's not what it's about. The whole point is that it's these really strong shapes that can unite us as human beings.

And there is no, there is no difference. So then I became really, really clear on that. And I think also having spoken to some other people and also meeting other brands that are also positioning themselves as gender inclusive, it really inspires me.

And I'm like, yeah, I feel like I want to fit in with this, this community of people. And then I get also the different, different ways of seeing it. Like I think on my podcast, I also spoke to someone who has a gender inclusive fashion platform.

And I really loved how he worded it of saying, it's more of an invitation as well. So I could also say not say anything about it, about it and just present it as it is. Maybe that's like the ultimate goal that you shouldn't have to put a label on it.

But I think for me, I've also realized not everyone is there yet. So sometimes people do need to just a little bit of an invitation like, Hey, this is gender inclusive, you're also welcome to wear it and try it. And this earring is not only for the woman or this is not only for guys, you know, so I now feel very confident and comfortable in that.

And I feel like it's actually can help some people. And it's a really beautiful message of inclusivity of equality that I feel very strongly about. So for me, it's turned into almost half of as important as the jewelry is the message behind it.

But I'm super passionate about as well.

SPEAKER_00
So And that's so powerful, because what you've essentially built is a brand with a powerful message. And so you're not just selling jewelry, you're not just selling a product, you're selling a message, you're selling a lifestyle. And that's a massive differentiating factor.

That's why you're going to do so well in your business as well. Because you've gone kind of all in on this. And I think with the thing with labels, and that yeah, it's great not to have to have labels, but people are inundated with so much content and so many businesses and so much jewelry and so much just stuff in their day to day life, that they sometimes do need that like label like, oh, gender inclusive, this is me, like I want to I love this, I'm drawn to this.

And just that that that word is going to really draw in your ideal customers as well. So thank you for sharing your journey with that, because I know it's been a bit of a like, it's been challenging, but I'm so glad that you're at this place now where you're feeling confident and comfortable with it. So I'd also quickly like to touch before we finish and we have a couple of minutes left.

But for anyone who's listening to those who's a jewelry business owner who's kind of maybe getting started or a couple of years in who's thinking about joining us in the jewelry business academy, what would your advice be to them? Whoops, what would you advise me to them?

SPEAKER_01
I would say, first of all, yeah, if you're really serious about it, and if this is calling you from a deep place in your heart, then 100% go for it. I also remember before I joined I actually reached out to a couple of the members and sent them a message on Instagram or something and everyone responded the same way that I'm going to respond now is like, totally 100% go for it. I yeah, I don't regret it with one tiny bit of my body.

It's like, I think I would never have gotten to the place where I'm now without the support system. And that's something that I'm really still still learning is to be able to ask for help and to be able to say, Hey, we can do this together and I don't need to figure everything out on my own. Because if you do this, you're actually giving yourself a chance.

So, you know, I think sometimes before I was always like, Yeah, but that's a little bit like failing if you have to ask for help or if you're doing coaching or whatever. But no, it actually means that you're taking yourself really seriously and that you're willing to invest in yourself and in your business.

SPEAKER_00
I love that. Well, thank you for sharing Julia. And I think I resonate with that as well.

I I've seen even in my business, like I have coaches and it's funny because I also used to think to be honest with you that the more I grow in my business, the less I need coaches and actually flipped completely, the more my business grows, the more I want that support because why on earth would I want to do this on my own? Why on earth would I want to take the whole burden of building a business on my own shoulders and like, you know, it's a lot, it's a lot to go through life and build businesses on our own and we wouldn't be expected to do that in the corporate world. We have our communities and we have all of that. So thank you for sharing that.

And is there anything else that we haven't touched on today that you'd like to just share or talk about before we go? I think we've covered pretty much everything.

SPEAKER_01
I just wanted to thank you also for your energy and your positivity and also your your knowledge. It feels like you always have something really insightful to give back. So it's not just like giving an answer just for the sake of it.

You really think about it and you really tailor your answers to individual needs of everybody in the community. And you just bring us together which has been really so so wonderful. So thank you very much for that.

SPEAKER_00
Amazing. Thank you so much, Julia. I really appreciate your words and I loved working with you and having you in the academy and we're going to bring you back on in a couple of months to hear your updates and we'll just keep bringing you on as you grow this business and grow your community.

And I know we're going to have a lot of listeners who are going to be feeling really inspired by you and your story and they're going to want to connect with you and listen to your podcast and check out your jewelry. So where can our listeners

SPEAKER_01
find you and how can they support you? So you can find me on Instagram that is at Julia Duff and my website with all of my collection is Julia Duff dot NL. That's from the Netherlands. And you can also find my podcast on Spotify and other platforms and it's called the Elemental

SPEAKER_00
Connections podcast. Amazing. So we're going to link all of those in the show notes.

So anyone wanting to go connect with Julia, you can just click on the show notes and we'll link those all directly for you to make it nice and easy. But this has been so lovely, Julia. Thank you again so much for joining me and I can't wait to bring you back on in

SPEAKER_01
a couple of months. Thank you so much, Robin. And like you said at the beginning, this is also it feels like home talking to you.

So just why nice warm blankets around me every

SPEAKER_00
time. So thanks a lot. Oh my goodness.

I feel exactly the same way. Yeah, it's such a pleasure, Julia. Thank you for listening.

It's been wonderful sharing this time with you. And if you have found this episode to be really uplifting, inspiring, and you're enjoying the Jory Business Academy podcast, it would mean the world to me if you took two minutes to leave us a five star review on Apple podcasts. We don't run ads or do anything else on this podcast.

So it would really mean the world to me if you did take one minute to do that. And if there is somebody in your life that you know would get so much value from this podcast, maybe it's another business owner, a family member, anybody who you know who is starting a business, or just getting building momentum, or they've been in the industry many, many years, and you feel like they will get a lot of inspiration and motivation from this podcast, it would be wonderful if you could send over the link to one of your favorite episodes and spread the word and share these supportive resources that we are creating with as many business owners as possible. So we can help people feel less alone on their journey and help support and uplift them because let's be real, business building is no joke, it's no walk in the park.

And so we want to make sure as many people as possible have access to the free resources we're putting out and they have that extra little bit of support on their journey. So thank you in advance for doing that. And I'm looking forward to sharing our next episode with you soon.