SPEAKER_01
On today's show, we chat to Alexander Florio, the co-founder of Swab Inc. Alexander shares how he's searched for a new job, sparked the business idea, and how he and Stephanie, the other co-founder of Swab, went about building an award-winning app. Alexander shares some of these highlights as an entrepreneur, and how Swab became the first Canadian company to win the pitch-to-rich contest run by Richard Branson and Virgin Mobile Canada.

Overnight, Swab went from a small Toronto-based app to a worldwide phenomenon, and Alexander shares so many insights and how this experience impacted their growth. Alexander also shares his tips for entrepreneurs looking to develop their own app, the importance of developing a prototype, and the importance of trust and communication when choosing an app developer. We chat a little about the realities of entrepreneurship, and the importance of remaining even keel during the good and the bad moments in business, the importance of learning from your struggles and seeing them as opportunities for growth, how to overcome moments of doubt, and the importance of taking downtime as an entrepreneur.

Alexander and Stephanie are siblings, turn co-founders, and have an incredible business partnership, and we chat about the keys to a successful business relationship with family. Alexander shares the keys to hiring new team members, the traits to look for, and how to successfully manage and build a team. We talk about the importance of meeting your customers at in-person events, how this market feedback is one of the keys to success as a business, and so much more.

So let's jump right in. Welcome to the Jewelry Business Academy podcast. I'm your host Robin, and it's my mission to empower and inspire women to build and scale profitable businesses and have the freedom to live life on their terms.

I'll be bringing you inspiring interviews with successful entrepreneurs and thought leaders from around the world to shift your mindset and drive you to succeed. There will be lots of actionable tips for you to level up your business, your mindset, and your life. We'll be chatting everything from marketing, mindset, and sales to life as an entrepreneur and more.

Welcome to the show. Alexander, I'm so thrilled to have you here today. Welcome to the Jewelry Business Academy podcast.

I'm really excited to chat to you, learn more about your business and your entrepreneurial journey. Yeah, thank you. I'm excited.

Yeah. So for anyone who doesn't know who you are, do you want to go ahead and introduce yourself to our listeners, share a little bit about yourself, your entrepreneurial journey, your business swap Inc., which is now an award-winning social recruitment platform, and how you've got to where you are today.

Yeah, for sure. So it's

SPEAKER_00
so for anyone who doesn't know, I guess anybody wouldn't know this right now, but Robin and I went to school together. Yeah. And so going back, when I was in university, I for the longest time wanted to be a teacher. I just thought like even when I was in high school, I had some wonderful teachers and I thought they really inspired me.

That's really what I wanted to do. So when I started university, that was always in the back of my mind. But my passion is and always has been sports.

And so when it came time graduating from university, I thought, you know, is teachers college a path that I want to go down or do I want to follow my passion of sports and try and get into sports marketing? Because I always had an interest in marketing. And I thought if I can combine my passion of sports with marketing, then that would be sort of the ideal dream job for me. And so I decided to go to college and study event marketing, which we did together.

And from there, I love the program. And then from there, I got hired at an agency in the city. And when I started, I loved it.

So I initially started or got hired as an intern. And they eventually hired me on full time. And it was like, it was amazing.

It was everything I wanted. It was kind of the perfect situation. But fast forward a little while.

And I just became miserable. I wasn't enjoying my role anymore. And I just thought like, what am I doing? Like, I'm not happy going into work every day.

And in the back of my mind, I always knew that I wanted to do my own thing at some point. I just never knew what that was going to be. And so I remember I would go into work a lot of days and I would spend a lot of time looking for other job opportunities in the industry.

And I honestly just remembered thinking to myself, like, there needs to be an easier way to do this because I would be so frustrated with that process. And I'll admit at the time I was on the dating app Tinder. And I remember thinking to myself, like, what if there was a Tinder for jobs? And so I got a sticky note.

So I wouldn't forget, I literally wrote down Tinder for jobs on a sticky note, which I have on my desk to this day. And I remember I came home that night and I spoke to my sister about the idea. And my sister, who's also the other co founder, she has a similar background.

She also has a marketing and advertising background. And she was also working for an advertising firm in the city. But I think she always had sort of that entrepreneurial bug as well.

And so when I spoke to my sister about the idea, we both thought, this is pretty unique. Now, I don't have a tech background. I'm not a tech person by any means.

So like, that aspect of the business is like you're speaking another language to me. So we, we didn't really know where to begin or how to start, but we both knew that this was an idea we wanted to pursue. So fast forward a little while, we started doing research and we started meeting with groups of people just to really get some feedback and understand, like, is this even something that people would want? And does this even like, does it already even exist? And so we started meeting with a lot of people and we actually met with a group of, or with a cousin of ours who was at the time, I'd say probably 17 or 18 years old, which was our ideal target.

And we asked her, we said, can you bring some of your friends over? We'll invite you over or we'll order you guys pizza. We just want to talk to you about this idea that we have, pick your brains and just see like, is this something that would be valuable to you? And so we held a focus group and we told them about the idea and we started hearing things like, oh my God, this is amazing. Can I download this now? Like, is this available now? And so we kind of thought, okay, maybe the younger, the younger audience students who are looking more for these hourly wage part-time roles is who we're, who we should go after.

And we were shocked to learn that the number one way on how a lot of these students and younger job seekers were looking for jobs was by printing out resumes, walking around them all handing them out one by one, not even knowing who was hiring. And for us, it was like, well, how can that be? Because that's how I applied to jobs in high school. How is everything online and digital now yet that stayed the same? And so it was funny, like whenever we mentioned like the Tinder reference, it was something they understand, it was something they got right away.

And so we were like, okay, I think we're going to go after students, younger job seekers who are looking for these type of part-time high, high turnover roles. And so we, we spent a lot of time gathering feedback and making sure that we understood what they wanted to see and how they would want to apply to jobs. So how it works, the app is, it's available for both Apple and Android platforms, it's free to download.

Pretty simple, you, you, once you've downloaded the app, you include your location, you select in industries that you're interested in, and then jobs will appear. And then from there, like Tinder, if you don't want to apply, you'd swipe left. And if you do want to apply, you would swipe right.

And your resume and your profile will then get sent to the employer. But even on the other side of that, we, we spent a lot of time even getting research and feedback from the employers. So we, we generate revenue on the employer side.

And we wanted to make sure that whatever we were developing was going to be convenient and easy for them to use as well. And one thing we learned was that in these, in these industries like retail, food service, hospitality, it's a revolving door, like people are getting hired and then the very next day, they're leaving. So these, these industries are constantly looking for new talent and they're looking for new ways to reach the younger audience.

And so a lot of the feedback or features that make our platform unique were developed based on feedback that we heard from employers. So when we built the employer side of our platform, we actually met with companies like McDonald's Canada and recipe unlimited, which is the parent company of restaurants like Swiss Alley, Harveys and Montana's just to really learn, understand their feedback and see what they want when they're posting these types of roles. So we really spent a lot of time before launching, getting feedback and making sure that we understand what this audience wants.

And like I said, I'm not a tech person at all. So we work with a developer who was able to really take our vision and actually develop that. And so fast forward a little, a little bit now.

So now we are across Canada. We've recently entered into the US and obviously COVID has had an impact on what we've been doing. But I mean, I think at the end of the day, we've been, we've still been able to support employers that we're working with and we've been growing, which is great.

And we're just trying to keep that

SPEAKER_01
ride going. That's incredible. Your story is so inspiring.

And I just, I love how you and your sister founded this business, Stephanie, your sister founded this business together. And I love how you've got that sticky note still on your, on your desk. Your app is incredible.

I remember when you launched it, I was so inspired. I think it's a genius idea and you've pulled it off so successfully. So you did share a little bit about how it works.

You've kept it really simple. It's so user friendly, which is not always the case with apps. The fact that you can explain it so easily.

It's, it's simple for users to use. It's simple for the employers to use as well. So, yeah, it's really incredible what you've done.

So I'd love to know some of the highlights of Swab. And I know one of them was when you were the first ever Canadian company to be awarded the Pitch to Rich contest run by Richard Branson and Virgin Mobile Canada. And it's such an incredible achievement.

And I'd love to know a little bit more about your journey through this process, through that contest. And did you have any feelings of imposter syndrome? What was it like suddenly having sort of the world looking at you and your app and being flown to meet Richard Branson and meeting him in person? What was that whole process like? Yeah, so it's funny when we

SPEAKER_00
first launched, you know, we were this small app across Toronto and the GTA and we were, we were growing and we had some traction, which was great. And we were really excited about it. And, you know, and then with that Pitch to Rich contest, I honestly happened to come across it on LinkedIn one day.

I had no idea that it was a thing. I didn't know it existed. And I saw it and I thought, you know, like, what the heck, I'm going to apply.

Somebody's got to win. Like, you know, there's a, you know, there's a possibility. And so I applied and a month went by and I got a phone call saying that we were a finalist.

And even that I was like, Oh my goodness, are you serious? And so they called us said that we were a finalist and that we needed to do like a one minute elevator pitch on why we should be selected. So we did our video, we submitted it and we just crossed our fingers and hope for the best. And it was funny, they they told us that they would reach out, I think it was the following Tuesday to let us know if we had been selected or not.

And so I was kind of just, you know, prepping myself to get ready for that Tuesday and and anticipating and anticipation for a phone call hoping for good news. And it was funny on on the Monday, my sister was at an event and I got the phone call saying that we had won. And I was like, Oh my goodness, like, I could not believe it.

And even to this day, like, I still can't believe that that happened. And so I called my sister and and the actual event took place on her birthday at the meeting with Richard. And so I called her and I said, No, what are you doing for your birthday? And she was like, Why, what do you mean? Like, what are you talking about? And I'm like, because we're going to be in Calgary with Richard Branson and she's like, Oh, my God, so he freaked out.

And when we so we got flown to Calgary and the night before we met with some of the team at Virgin Mobile, Canada, and they were awesome. We were just kind of going over some things talking about us and what we were what we were sort of to expect the day of our meeting with Richard. And it was funny, like, once we met him the next morning, we spent a lot of time with him.

And it was awesome, like, we got to pick his brain, we walked around with him, like we explored Calgary a little bit with him, which was awesome. But it was one of those things where like, the second we started talking with him, it was just almost like, he was so easy to talk to and such a relaxed vibe about him that like, you didn't feel intimidated at all. And one of the reasons and it was it was really cool for us to know that one of the reasons why he picked us was just because he loved how simple it was and how when he was younger, he started a magazine that showcased some employment opportunities for younger people.

So he was like, I love the fact that you're trying to help young people get jobs. And yeah, it was amazing. He was such a like, genuine person, he was so easy to talk to when like, we've kind of kept in touch with him a little bit over the years.

And it was like, it was amazing. Like, afterwards, we went to an event with him, and like, we were having a drink with him, and it was so cool. And, and, you know, once we once we had that opportunity, like, we started getting approached by different media and things like that.

And it was like, Oh, my goodness, like here we went from like this small app to just like having companies across Europe, companies in the US starting to sign up. And we're like, Oh, like, we're not there yet. I wish we could support you, but we're not there.

So it was awesome. And for a long time after that, we were just like, doing interviews with people we were invited to be an in Bloomberg to do an interview, we were on the Merrill Denys show, which was awesome. So it was honestly one of the best experiences in my professional career.

It's something that like, I look back on, I'm so humbled by that experience, because like, it really helped bring us to another level. And yeah, it was just like, like I said, I'm still even shocked to this day that it happened. So it was amazing.

Yeah, it's so it's such an incredible

SPEAKER_01
highlight and achievement for you and Stephanie. And yeah, it must have been surreal, but it sounds like such an incredible experience. And hearing more about how Richard Branson is so grounded and supportive.

Yeah, it must have just been an incredible experience. So as you mentioned, you've been featured on so many shows now, including being in Bloomberg and E talk, The Feed, the Marilyn Dennis show, which is also such an incredible achievement. And I'd love to hear a little more about some of these.

Did any of the shows stand out to you? How did you handle being in the spotlight? Did you how was your mindset going into these shows? Did you just find it easy? It comes naturally to you? Or did you have to sort of prepare yourself going into these?

SPEAKER_00
My sister and I, we always like to prepare a little bit beforehand. But I think it's one of those things where it's just kind of go with it. Like, I think if you overthink it, it might actually do more harm than good.

It was funny, actually. So when we did our first interview on BNN, it was the day after Doug Ford won his premiership in Ontario. And we were in the room, we were doing makeup, which was a whole new experience for me.

And I was like, okay, like you're in my makeup. And he sat down right next to me and he started talking to me and everything. And I was like, Oh my goodness, like what is happening right now? But it was funny.

So we went on, we did our interview. And I think this one definitely stood out the most to me. Because afterwards, they told us, they're like, Yeah, you guys did a great job considering, you know, you were live.

And I was like, wait, we were on live TV. And they're like, Yeah, that was live. And I'm like, I'm glad you told me this now.

Because if I had known we were live while shooting, I probably would have been freaking out a little bit. So that was definitely interesting. But it was it was a lot of fun.

Same thing with Marilyn Dennis, like that was it was really cool just to be invited and have her talk about swab and what we're doing. So that was a lot of fun. But yeah, it was definitely the BNN, I think stood out the most just knowing that it was live now.

SPEAKER_01
Incredible. Okay, so from a technology standpoint, how did you overcome like any feelings of overwhelm when it came to developing an app? Because I know you don't have a tech background necessarily. Did you how did you sort of handle that? And what sort of one to three tips would you give to a listener who is going through a similar process of developing their own app, but is feeling completely overwhelmed because that's just not their specialty.

SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so I think for us, we were fortunate to be connected with some really great people. And so my sister had a friend who was a graphic designer who knew some developers and he was able to make some introductions for us. But one thing we did early on, when we were developing the app was we actually developed a prototype first.

And so that was one thing that we learned early on that it was a lot it's a lot easier to develop a prototype and make changes while it's in that stage, rather than actually developing the app and making changes as it's being developed. So that's always one thing I say to anybody who's like thinking of developing an app is maybe, you know, to think about developing a prototype first because making the changes is a lot easier and it's a lot less expensive to do it while it's in a prototype stage. But we worked with a prototype developer who helped us out and really kind of took our vision and actually showed us what it could be.

And then from there, once the prototype was developed, they made some introductions to some developers for us. And we met with a bunch of developers and we met or we went with the one who we thought would really take our vision and bring it to life. And he's still with us to this day.

And it's one of those things where from when the app first launched and even the website, there's been a million little subtle changes that maybe you might not notice. But they are there. And so it's I think honestly, one of the things that I would tell, you know, even students that we've met with who are thinking of developing apps is that, you know, make sure you're if you're if you're going to work with somebody who's going to develop it for you, make sure that there's a trust level there.

Make sure that, you know, there's open communication. And for us, one of the biggest things that we were looking for when meeting with developers was we wanted somebody who would push back on us as well. We didn't want somebody who would just say like, Oh, yeah, I'll do whatever you guys want.

And whatever. We wanted someone where if we had an idea, and they didn't necessarily think it was the best idea, or if they thought there was another way of approaching it, we wanted somebody who would push back on that. Because for us, it was like, Okay, you know what, they're they're committed to what they're doing.

And they want to put the best app out there as well. I mean, if they're developing it, it's it's their name on it too. So they want to make sure that it's it does a good job and that it works properly.

So that was one thing. For sure, is that you'll make sure you're whoever you're working with, you trust them and they, you know, you have open communication with them. But honestly, I think it's doing a lot of research.

I think like, you know, especially for us not knowing anything early on, and like, even still not really knowing how like the tech side works. It's making sure you do your research, ask questions, you know, talk to a bunch of people and gather as much information as you can. That way, you're a little more educated and can make decisions a little easier.

Because at least you have a little bit more knowledge in terms of, you know, who can actually develop it the best it can be.

SPEAKER_01
Thank you so much for sharing like that. I'm sure it's going to help a lot of people developing apps and just knowing where to start. I'd love to dive a little more into how you and Stephanie had the courage to go up against some of these huge established tech companies who may not have had the same app.

But in the industry, there's so many competitors. And sort of what mindset was your key to success and just going out there and doing it anyway? Yeah, I think for us, it was just

SPEAKER_00
kind of ignoring a lot of the noise. Obviously, there are like, there's giants in this space already. And for us, if it was something where we paid attention to that, you know, it might have discouraged us to do what we wanted to.

And I think for us, it was like, well, we don't care that there's already giants here, like we're still going to do our thing. And I think one thing we talked about early on was I would rather start something and fail and have it blow up in my face rather than not start it because of the fear of the risk and everything. And then 10 years from now, think back about what could have been.

So that was the mindset we had early on was like, you know, let's do this regardless. And if we fail, we tried. So I think it was ignoring a lot of the noise, just keeping focused, making sure that we were committed and dedicated, which we are and we were, were the biggest things for us.

Because like I said, there's always going to be competitors and there's always going to be new companies coming up. But if you're committed to what you're doing and you're willing to learn and you're always listening, then, you know, for us, that was the biggest thing. And we didn't care about the giants.

We just, we wanted to do our thing.

SPEAKER_01
I love that. And I love that you shared how you would rather fail and have tried than have waited 10 years and not done anything. And I think that's such an important perspective and mindset to have as an entrepreneur, because it's never really the perfect time.

Things can go wrong, but it's much better to try and fail and learn and then try again. And also, I love what you said about just ignoring all the competitors, because a lot of our listeners are jewelry business owners, and the jewelry business industry is very saturated. But I like to share with my clients that, you know, it feels saturated, but if you keep your focus just on your business and you and what you're doing and how you're supporting your customers, it's really, there is space for everyone in the industry.

So I love that you shared that. So the entrepreneurial journey is full of highs and lows. And I'm assuming as a successful entrepreneur, you've had your fair share of challenges and hurdles that you've had to overcome to get your business to where it is today.

How do you handle the challenges that come your way in your business? And how do you stay calm and face them? Do you have any mindset tips or techniques that you use that you can share with our listeners, which they can use when they face hurdles or challenges in their businesses?

SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it's funny. I think a lot of people look at entrepreneurs and think that it's always glamorous and that it's like, it's always perfect, which is like, nope. The one of the biggest things that I tell a lot of young people who are thinking about one day starting a business or doing their own thing is that remaining even keel is really important.

For us, whenever we have things that are going good, it's always important not to get too high. And especially when there's moments that are challenging or when moments where you're struggling not to get too low either. I think it's just a balance.

I think you have to remain even keel. And as long as you're passionate and dedicated, you'll work through it. And I think those challenges will make you a stronger entrepreneur and a stronger business owner because you can look at that experience and learn from it.

So I think as long as you're always learning from experiences and struggles, I think that's the biggest thing. And even to this day, there's times where we struggle and where we need to work past it and we will. And even in the beginning, early on, there were moments of doubt and moments of like, what are we doing? Are we way in over our heads with this? But I think again, it's just remaining calm, staying even keel and not getting too high when things are good and not getting too low on yourselves when things are challenging.

And even like, I think there's a misconception that as an entrepreneur, you need to be on your computer working like 24 seven. And I think it's really important that you take downtime and like have some time to yourself where you have a rest. Because I think it's so important like you need to recharge your batteries and make sure that you come back into it refreshed because it's like, if you're just constantly focused, like you might start to lose motivation, or you might start getting tunnel vision where you're kind of struggling with something and you can't think outside the box or just ideas and creativity are coming to you.

So I think honestly, the biggest things that I tell younger people is like, just stay even keel, don't give up, like stay passionate. If you're dedicated, like you'll be okay. And make sure that you have your downtime because it is important and it will help you recharge your batteries and come back more refreshed and more creative.

Now, I love that you shared that because

SPEAKER_01
especially in the first few years of the entrepreneurial journey, it's tempting to work 24 seven to get your business off the ground. And there's that feeling that you have to do that to get it to the next level. But ultimately, that is going to lead to burnout and decision fatigue and all those things.

So yeah, it's so important to take those breaks and take the rest that you need so that you can handle the hurdles in the best way possible. Okay, so I'd love to just pivot a little bit. I love that you and Stephanie, your sister started this business together.

And it's so clear that you two have a really great dynamic and great partnership working together. So what would you attribute the success of your business partnership to? What do you think is one of the keys to successfully partnering with family in business? I know we have a lot of listeners who have partners with either siblings or friends and are in a very similar position to you and Stephanie. So what would your advice be to them on managing a successful business partnership with family?

SPEAKER_00
It's funny. And that's a great question. And we get asked that a lot.

We joke around that if, you know, five years ago, if you had asked me that I would, or if you had told me that I would eventually be starting a business with my sister, I would have called you insane. But here we are. I think there's a misconception and I've heard other people say that you shouldn't go into business with family or siblings and things like that.

But for us, I think it was, we definitely have always had a strong relationship, my sister and I. And I think it was like one of the things that we love about it is we're open with one another. Like there's definitely no filter.

If she has an idea that I don't like, like I will certainly let her know and vice versa. And like there are times where we like bump heads and I think that's natural whether you are or normal, whether it's your founder is a sister or a friend or whoever, you're always going to have kind of bumping heads and things like that. And I think for us, one of the biggest things is like, we don't have to sugarcoat anything.

Like we're very open and honest with one another. And one of the things that I think works really well with our dynamic is, we always say her strengths are more of my weaknesses, whereas my strengths are more of her weaknesses. So I think it's a really, really good balance.

And I think it's just like, the way we look at it is like, yes, we run this business together, but at the end of the day, like you're my sister, I'm always going to have your back whether we're doing this or not. And like for us, it's a lot of fun. And like I said, there are certainly times where, yes, we definitely want to kill one another.

And she would say the exact same thing. But I mean, I think that just shows that we're passionate though.

SPEAKER_01
Yeah. No, I love that. I love that so much.

And you guys have handled it so well, you make it look easy from the outside, but it's good to know that there's still ups and downs as a normal partnership would have. So I'd like to just look, I know you shared a little bit at the beginning about moving from the sort of corporate world, working with an agency into your own business. So for a listener who's going through the same sort of journey as you leaving a full-time position to go into their business, which can feel so, so scary.

What would be your advice to them? What do you wish you knew or you could have done differently back then?

SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it was definitely a terrifying experience because it's like you're going from something that you worked so hard to get into and you're being paid and it's steady to leaving that and not getting paid for a long time and thinking about the unknown and the different risks and what could happen. But like I said earlier, I think honestly, it was just the way we thought about it was I would rather do this and try and fail than not do it at all and 10 years look back and think, you know, what could have been or in 10 years look back and somebody else had done this and was super successful with it and think like that could have been us, but we didn't take the chance. So honestly, I think there's a lot of factors that come into play, but I just like the one thing I always reiterate when I speak to people is like, if you're passionate and you really believe in what you have, then do it.

Like what's the worst that can happen? Like, yes, you know, what you might fail, but if you take that experience and you learn from it, like it could be a positive and it's something where like at least you'll know you've tried. So that's always honestly one thing I tell that, you know, whenever I speak with students or younger people that you have an idea and you really, really truly believe in it, go for it because if you don't, like then you'll never know. And so honestly, looking back, I think there was a lot of doubt early on and I think if I can go back, I wouldn't have had so much doubt and I would have had more of a, and that's not to say like it was all doubt or anything like that.

Like there was certainly times where I thought like, this is really cool what we're doing and like I love this and I think it's awesome and there's certainly a need for something like this, but I mean, it is scary. So I think honestly just like fighting through, if I looking back, I think if I could fight through that a little bit better, but other than that, like there's not really much that I would change because everything that I talk about in terms of like taking the chance, like we've done that. Yeah, you did it.

And that's

SPEAKER_01
such good advice. You kind of just have to kind of jump in and trust that you can make a success of this and if you don't, you can learn from it and maybe something better is going to happen and work out for you. So I know you and Stephanie have built a team and you have a lot of employees working with Swab at the moment and your developers, you said.

So do you have any tips for anyone looking to add a new member to their team or starting the hiring process? Any characteristics you look for when hiring? Like what would be your like top one to three tips for building a team

SPEAKER_00
and managing it fairly successfully? So early on when I was in university, I spent three summers working full time at a company in Toronto and the person that hired me told me something that kind of left, kind of stuck with me throughout the years and it was, I don't care about your education or whether you have a college diploma or an MBA, if you're going to come in, have a positive attitude, be willing to learn, be willing to put in the time and work, those are things that we look for. And so it's the same thing. I think it's, you know, I'm not necessarily concerned about your past experiences or even your education.

Now, I think all of those things matter and they should factor in, but I think it's your attitude, your outlook. You know, there are, sometimes I feel people can be a little entitled and think like things you just get handed to them and that's not the case. I think if you're willing to learn, willing to work hard, are passionate, those are definitely the things that we look for.

And I think like, you know, people are going to make mistakes and that's fine, but I think it's just how you handle those and how you learn from it is are really, really important. And like, you know, one thing I mentioned earlier with our developer, you know, being somebody that we wanted him to push back on us. It's the same thing that, you know, whenever we're hiring somebody, I tell them the same thing.

Like, if I have an idea, I don't want you to just agree with it. If you don't agree with it, I want you to push back because like, by just saying yes, that's not doing anybody any favors. So if you have input or feedback, like speak your mind, like don't be afraid to let us know.

So I think those are the biggest things where if you're like I said, if you're eager, you're dedicated, you're willing to learn, then

SPEAKER_01
like we're good. Yeah, I love that advice. Thank you.

So I know you shared, you did a lot of sort of events or marketing, you got a lot of market feedback from real people and your sister's friends, your cousin's friends and all of that stuff. And I always feel like it's so important. A lot of businesses nowadays are completely online and they completely miss out to that touchpoint of dealing with people in person.

And I always encourage jewelry business owners, especially to get out there, get to events, see people face to face, get real feedback on their products. And there's sometimes a lot of pushback to this because people want to be only based online. So I really love that you guys as app developers even did so much face to face events and research.

So what would you say to on Chalk and News who are starting out how important is that face to face research and feedback from customers? And would you say it's a definite necessity to

SPEAKER_00
building successful business? Yeah, I mean, like for me, I love getting out in person and talking to people. And like that's one thing where like during these COVID times, it's been one of the biggest adjustments for me at least because I'm not able to get out in person as much as I would have liked to. But I think it is important.

And like I said earlier, I don't think we would have a product if we weren't able to go and meet face to face with companies like McDonald's or Recipe. And those interactions were super important because like I said, a lot of the features that make us unique from other job platforms were developed based on feedback that we actually got from employers. So it's really important.

And even on the other side, we would do a lot of student shows, a lot of going into schools, doing classroom presentations and setting up booths and things like that. And like I loved it. And that's again, an adjustment now because it's, you know, I don't find you're getting the same interaction when you're doing a virtual event as opposed to in person.

So I think it is really important. And I think honestly, it's a really good way to get your name out there and create exposure while at the same time gathering feedback and learning. And you know, there were times where, you know, we would be at a trade show or whatever in a school and you're always going to deal with these types of people where somebody will come by and tell you, oh, this is stupid or oh, this isn't going to work.

And it's okay. Well, like, thank you. But I just like continue to, you know, ignore that, listen to the positive feedback that you get.

And there are times where it's like, if you have genuine constructive feedback or criticisms, like, we're okay with that. Because if you tell us there's a feature that, you know, it doesn't work well, or there's something that we can do different. It's like, that helps us improve what we're doing.

So we're okay with that. Yeah, I think it's definitely really important to get out there and speak to people and gather as much information as you can. I can't stress that

SPEAKER_01
enough. I love that you shared that. So I know you've worked as a mentor for the incubation hub program, which empowers young social entrepreneurs to develop and launch their own social enterprises.

And I'd love to hear a little bit more about your experience mentoring young entrepreneurs and the value you bring them and why you're so passionate about supporting

SPEAKER_00
them through this journey. Yeah, that's one thing that I'm certainly really proud of on some of my experiences. I think it's just, you know, for us, we had great mentors that helped us along the way and help kind of guide us and help us to remain sort of calm and keep cool when things were getting difficult.

So for us, it was just, I looked at those experiences and I looked at the people that helped us and like, I'm so grateful for the support that we got and for the support that we still get. So it was just for me, if I can give some of that back and share some of my experiences with people who are, you know, thinking about starting something or thinking about, you know, an idea and just struggling with how to actually approach it, if I can help even just a little bit, like it's rewarding for me. And one of the things that, you know, I loved was when I was working with a lot of these groups and mentoring these these young students who were, who had ideas, it's like you were inspiring me, like it wasn't how it wasn't always, you know, where I was going in and helping you, like you were helping me too, and it helped keep me inspired.

And like some of the things that these young people were doing or working on was like, it was incredible. And it was like, Oh my goodness, like you're really, really trying to make a difference. So it was like, if I could just help you out a little bit and, you know, looking and have it where, you know, when you look back, you could think of me as somebody who was a good mentor and helped out along the way, like, you know, I was happy to do that.

And I'm still happy to do that.

SPEAKER_01
Incredible. I love, I love that you are giving back and supporting Young Entrepreneurs so much. It's the same support I wish I had when I started my journey.

And I know it's just so valuable at all stages of the journey, as you said. So as an entrepreneur, and as business owners, you put a lot of hearts and soul into your business. And sometimes people don't see this from the outside, they just see the business, they think it's a corporation, they don't realize how much heart and soul goes into these small businesses.

So how do you sort of disassociate or distance yourself when you get any form of rejection or negative comments, especially in the early days of your business? How do you not take it personally? And what sort of advice would you have for

SPEAKER_00
listeners who really take things to heart? Yeah, that was a struggle for me early on. And I'm actually really grateful for my sister, because she would kind of help me through that. Because especially when you're targeting a younger audience, they can be ruthless.

And so there were comments early on, I was like, oh my goodness, how could somebody say that? How are you so mean? I think honestly, it's when I just think don't take it personally. I know it's easier said than done to have thicker skin, but I mean, if you're putting something out there, it's going to always be open to criticism. And that's fine.

And I think honestly, the best thing is just ignore it. And I know it's easier said than done. But I also think it also depends on the situation too.

So if somebody's just leaving a stupid comment on an Instagram post, then whatever. But if we're working with an employer and they decide not to continue with us, I think then that is something where you don't want to take it personally, you want to understand why and what could we have done then to improve, to keep you on? So yeah, like I said, there are times where even now I'll look at a comment and I'll still kind of cringe a little bit, but it's just kind of staying calm and not getting as emotional as I maybe would have in the beginning. Yeah, I think just don't pay attention to that stuff because it's going to happen regardless.

And yeah, there's always people who I guess like to troll or leave silly comments, things like that. And that's fine.

SPEAKER_01
Yeah. No, and I love that you shared that. Because I feel like it's just inevitable.

You're going to get some form of criticism if you put yourself out there. And it's kind of just part of the journey. And it's really crucial to have your mindset right at the beginning so that you don't get affected by it because it's just inevitable.

And often, these people who are commenting are not doing anything. They're not putting themselves out there in any way. Exactly.

Or form either. So you have to remember that. Don't take feedback from people who aren't doing what you want to be doing anyway.

Yeah, exactly. So can we talk a little bit about mindsets, especially when it comes to entrepreneurship? I know this ties a little bit into the previous question, but it's so easy to experience burnout. And I know that a lot of people and entrepreneurs are feeling very drained and tired with the current status of the world.

It can sometimes be hard to keep going, keep creating. What would you say to any listeners right now who are feeling burnt out, who've lost their spark for showing up in their business? Do you have any advice on how to avoid burnout? Or are there any things that you incorporate in your day-to-day to prevent this and just to not let the world situation get to you?

SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think it's definitely a unique time where there's so many different challenges that are happening. And honestly, like I said earlier, I think it is really important to have some downtime. And even now, I definitely plan on taking some time off where I'm just going to shut my screen, not pay attention for a few days during the holidays, because it is important to recharge.

And you don't want to burn out because it's like the second you burn out, that's when things start to, you know, where you get that tunnel vision where you really can't stay focused, might lose motivation, or you know, just creativity doesn't spark. So I really do think like taking downtime and having some time to yourself where you just do things that you enjoy is really important. And then for myself, like, you know, when things get really, really stressful or things get really hectic, I try to do things that make me forget about everything.

And I try to do things that I've always loved to do. So for example, sports is something that, again, as much as I love watching, I love playing as well. And so, and that was one of the hardest things for me early on was, you know, I went from playing hockey three, four times a week, which was my escape where for an hour that day, like, I didn't think about anything else, all I thought about was what I was playing.

And that was really difficult for me because early on, it was like, okay, so there's no more hockey, so I couldn't get to play. And that was my escape. And now that that's sort of coming back, I'm really grateful for it because it's kind of like it's my therapy.

So I think it's honestly doing things that make you or doing things that you love, and making sure that you have some time to do those things every week is really important because it is therapeutic for me, and it is a nice escape. But also making sure that you aren't focused all the time and trying to think of things 24 seven, you really do need that downtime. I can't stress it enough.

Because the last thing you want is to burn out, and making sure that you have some time to just

SPEAKER_01
recharge is really important. No, and I love that you shared your hockey as a form of therapy. People often underestimate the effect how positively sports and stuff can affect your day to day and your mindset and help you get through these challenging times.

And I'm glad that your hockey is back up and running. It must have been a struggle. All right, that's definitely was.

So I'm a huge believer in how you start your day affects your life. So I'd love to know how you start your morning. Do you have a morning routine? How do you set yourself up for a successful day?

SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it's funny. I think a lot of my friends think like, oh, you since you run a business, like you get to sleep in and you could do whatever and it's like, no, I don't necessarily have a routine that I go by every morning. I think it's like I try to wake up every morning around the same time.

You know, as long as I have my coffee in the morning, we're okay. But ultimately, like every morning is different. Like there are some mornings where I'll wake up and the first thing I do is check emails or the first thing I'll do is like take a shower.

So I don't necessarily have a routine. I just I know what works for me and I know my comfort level is. But I think, you know, if your thing is waking up every morning at seven o'clock, doing an hour workout and having a shower or whatever, if that's your routine and that works for you, then cool.

But if you're more like me, who wakes up every morning and, you know, things are different most every day, that's fine too, is just as long as it works for you. And I think like, I think every morning when I wake up, I'm still motivated and everything like that. So that's really that's that's good.

But yeah, like I said, like I don't really have a morning routine, I just kind of do my own thing and

SPEAKER_01
get things done. I actually love that you shared that because some people have very complex morning routines, and they have to follow each step. Otherwise, their day is like done before they've even started.

And it's so important to realize that everyone is going to have a different routine that works for them. And you can be very successful having a more relaxed approach to your mornings, like just doing having these checklists of meditation, reading this, this, this isn't going to necessarily set you up for a successful day if it's not optimally what you and your body need. So yeah, it's really important for people to listen to their bodies and approach their day in a way that feels really good to them.

So with all the things that you have going on, how do you stay on track? How do you keep your focus and keep your focus on your goals and not get distracted by everything else going on? That's probably one of my the biggest challenges

SPEAKER_00
that I have is I can I can be the one who gets distracted by so many things, or I can be that that person where I'll be working on something and something will pop into my head and I'll just stop and start focusing on something else. So sometimes I do need that little pinch or that little push saying like, no, like, keep doing what you're doing, like, attention, because that is honestly like a struggle for me. And that's something that I try to work on every day.

But I think like, you know, I know what I need to do every day. So for me, it's not necessarily about following that checklist in order. It's just making sure that that checklist that I have gets done.

So whether I am doing something and I stop and focus on something else and then return back to what I was doing, that's that's fine for me because I know that it's it's my routine. And I guess, like I know, I said, I didn't have much of a routine, but that is my routine. And I know that whatever I need to get done, I will get it done.

And I know that, you know, for me, especially working with a sibling or working with my sister and working with other people, I don't want to let anybody down. And so that's another motivating factor for me is like, you know, I want to make sure that I'm holding up my end of the bargain. And I don't want to be the one who when we talk about what we've done at the end of the day, I don't want to be the one who's who's fallen behind and didn't hold my end of the bargain up.

So for me, it's just, you know, I know what I need to do every day. And every day, it's, you know, usually my sister and I will have a conversation about what we're doing today, what we want to accomplish, and let's get at it. And so I think it's once we have that conversation where we know what we need to do, whether it's starting with the last thing on that checklist or the first thing, doesn't really matter just as long as they get done.

SPEAKER_01
No, I love that. So I would love to know how you define success, because success is very different for everyone. And has your definition of success changed when you moved from working at an agency to having your own business? Like what to you is success in life and in business?

SPEAKER_00
Well, certainly in business, I think like we don't put like a money value on that. Like we don't think, oh, I'll be a millionaire, so you're successful or anything like that. I think for us, the way we look at success is if an employer is hiring and their first thought is to post a job on our platform, that is a win.

And same thing on the other side, if somebody's looking for a job and their first thought is to go to the app or download the app or go to our website, then that's a win. So that's kind of where, you know, if we're on your mind and that's the first place that you check that success to us. And honestly, it's just like that's the biggest thing.

And that's one of the things we talked about early on. And that was always one of our goals was, you know, if you're coming to us first, that's a win.

SPEAKER_01
Mm-hmm. Incredible. And so what book or podcast would you recommend to all entrepreneurs to read or listen to if they could only read one? Which book has already inspired you on your entrepreneurial journey? What would you recommend to someone starting out?

SPEAKER_00
So I'll admit, after winning Richard Branson's contest, I did start looking at some of his books. So there is a book that he wrote. And honestly, not on the top of my mind, but I did read his book.

And it was something where it just kind of like, you know, I talked about some of the things that I mentioned where it was just like, keep going, don't get discouraged and things like that. So, you know, that was something where it kind of inspired me when I read that. But even, you know, people like Gary Vee, like, I know a lot of people love Gary Vee, and I know a lot of people love the fact that he's not like, he doesn't have a filter.

And that's fine. But I think if you can, you know, look past all of that stuff and his kind of approach online, but actually look at what he's done and been able to accomplish. Like, I think that is also something where it's inspiring.

And I think he resonates with a lot of young people. And so it's, if that's like the type of person that you're trying to become like, then look at somebody like him as a role model, because I, you know, he does have that mindset where younger people kind of gravitate to him. So it's like, you know, look at that, listen to his podcasts, look at what he's put out there.

Because I think like, it can be inspiring. You know, don't listen to him because you think he's funny because like he swears and he doesn't have a filter and things like that. Like, don't look at that stuff.

If that's the reason why you're going to him, then like, that's not the right way to look at it. But if you're really looking at what he's done as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, like, I know he, his father started a wine business and he like blew that up to another level. It's like, well, learn about how he did that and why he did that and what he was able to do.

So I think those are things that if you listen to his story, it should inspire you. And even like, again, going back to Richard Branson, like, I know when, when he was younger, one thing he talked about was, um, he's, he's dyslexic. It was hard for him.

And that like, you know, there was people that didn't really put a lot of faith into him. And I think that's amazing because he proved, clearly he proved everybody wrong. So I think, you know, those are the types of things that I try to listen to or look at.

And yeah, I think if you're, if you're looking for somebody to kind of listen to their, sort of look at their story, I would say those two for sure. But obviously there's so

SPEAKER_01
many out there. I know there's an overwhelming amount out there, but I love those and we'll link the book in the show notes for any listeners who want to read more about that. So Alex, you've given us so much today.

And to wrap up the interview, I'd love to ask you one last question. What would you say is one of the biggest lessons that you've learned in your years of entrepreneurship and

SPEAKER_00
business? I think honestly, it's just keep going, like just keep going. And, you know, like I mentioned earlier, especially early on, seeing negative negative comments and things like that, like I certainly got emotional and it was time there were times where like, I would want to reply. And I think it's just, you know, staying even keel, don't get too high when things are good, don't get too low when things are bad, stay passionate.

And if you're feeling that burnout, like it's, it's okay to take a step back. So I think those are the biggest things and like that's kind of how I try to approach it. And like for me, I'm, I'm always learning.

Like I, you know, there are, there are things or there are times where I still struggle and I, you know, struggle to keep motivated. But one thing that I always do is like, I just try to learn and I try to get feedback and understand what we can do to make things better. So I think that's really important is just keep learning.

No one to take downtime when things are good, don't start celebrating because just as quickly as things become good, they can turn and get bad. So just stay and even keel and, and yeah, and honestly, like just getting feedback, working with people that are as passionate with as you are. And, you know, not sugarcoating anything because, and that's like I said earlier, one of the biggest things with working with my sister is there's certainly no filter.

And I think that helps us along the way. Incredible. I love that.

SPEAKER_01
Okay, so Alexander, thank you so much for being here and for sharing so much insight. For anyone listening to this who's feeling really inspired and want to follow along on your journey and connect with you, where can they find you and how can our listeners support you? So anything that you're working on right now that you can send them to that they can support you with?

SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I'm always happy to have conversations with people. If you want to reach out to me, you can connect with me on LinkedIn. You can also go to our website, which will direct you to an info email, which you can reach out there as well.

And honestly, if for us, like I said earlier, we had great support along the way. So if I can help support you with anything, please like reach out. We're always happy to help and have conversations with people.

Incredible. Thank you so much, Alexander.

SPEAKER_01
We'll link all of those in the show notes. So anyone listening wants to find Alex or take a look at the Swab app and download it. You can do that there too.

So yeah, thank you so much, Alex. You're such a joy to talk to. You're so inspiring.

And I'm excited to see where you take your business

SPEAKER_00
over the next few years. Amazing. Well, thank you so much.

I appreciate the opportunity to come on. And it was honestly, it was great to reconnect with you. Yeah, so good to reconnect with you too.

SPEAKER_01
Thank you so much for joining us today on the Jewelry Business Academy podcast. I hope you found a lot of takeaways and insight and inspiration during our conversation today. This podcast is brought to you by the Jewelry Business Academy, where we empower and support you to scale your business successfully.

In this program, I teach women how to build solid foundations in their jewelry businesses and scale successfully through simplified marketing strategies and streamlined processes so that you can live life on your own terms. If you'd like to learn more, hit to our Instagram page, Robin Tlark, coaching or send me an email. Hello at JewelryBusinessAcademy.

co. I'm looking forward to hearing from you and I'm excited to share our next episode in a couple of days with you too. With an epic guest, you do not want to miss this show.