SPEAKER_02
I'm Larissa and I want to help you find the best strategy for communicating the magic and wonder of your jewelry brand so you can thrive by doing what you love and filling the world with beauty and creativity. Welcome to the Joy Joya Jewelry Marketing Podcast.
SPEAKER_03
Hi, I'm your host Larissa Worstiek. Through this podcast, I aim to empower and inspire jewelry entrepreneurs and innovators so they can thrive by doing what they love. I'm passionate about digital marketing for jewelry brands and I'm excited to share my passion with you.
This is episode 130 and today I'm sharing an interview with Jill Stein and Sarah Daniel, the co-founders of Brick and Mortar NYC, a boutique agency that helps brands reimagine their retail experience. Together, Sarah and Jill have over 40 years establishing retail at global luxury brands including Tiffany and company David Uriman and John Hardy. They combine their unique backgrounds and perspectives in creative and operations to create experiences that are visually compelling, highly functional and offer a clear delivery of return on investment.
They have opened more than 100 stores in the US, Canada, Europe and Asia ranging in size from 400 square feet to 60,000 square feet. In this episode, we talk all about the Brick and Mortar customer experience, especially as it relates to jewelry brands and even more especially how it's changed and evolved in a post COVID world. But before we get to today's episode, I want to share some marketing related news and insights from the past week that caught my attention.
So big news in the social media marketing world. It's probably not news to you. I'm sure you've heard about it.
Instagram has been experimenting with the hidden likes feature in several countries over the last few years. Not everyone has been on board with the hidden likes feature. So Instagram has decided to allow users to choose whether they want to hide likes or not, which kind of creates some pressure and uncertainty about what to do.
Hiding likes according to Instagram helps lessen pressure to perform. Likes will not disappear forever. Instead, the total like count is hidden to followers, but users can still view who's liked a post.
You can still see how many likes you get even if your followers cannot. If you do hide likes, you will no longer be able to see likes on other users posts either. Of course, no surprise.
Many influencers and businesses have claimed that this removal of likes that this new feature has dropped their engagement rates significantly. It's still kind of early to tell what is going on. I will probably do some follow up about this on the podcast.
But if you don't know, you know now. Another great article in luxury daily is all about how some luxury brands are kind of seizing opportunities in the jewelry sector, especially through the pandemic where jewelry sales, especially on the higher end seem to remain sustainable. So brands like Gucci and Chanel are just some fashion brands that have actually launched their own jewelry lines to kind of capitalize on this popularity.
They're finding that consumers today want versatile jewelry. So brands need to consider things like creativity, the quality of their products and how the products are going to be worn. Brands really need to find out how they can set themselves apart.
Otherwise, the jewelry may not be well received by consumers who are just bombarded with the same same all the time. Things need to really strive to create a desire for the unattainable and they need to take risks and embrace creativity to set themselves apart. And then finally, I saw an interesting article from Yahoo News about Tiffany.
If you hadn't heard, they played an April Fool's joke where they announced that instead of Robin's egg blue, the famous Tiffany blue color, they were going to be shifting to yellow as their primary brand color. So to kind of continue on this joke, they decided to launch a pop-up store with the yellow and it turned into a really quirky and fun retail experience. So much so that this pop-up will actually travel to global locations.
At the Beverly Hills location, they kind of took this to another level where they hosted a yellow diamond theme installation. It had a really quirky experiential tone. They even had a yellow diamond cafe with yellow furniture, turmeric lattes, all things yellow.
I think this last article really connects to the conversation that I'm about to share with Jill and Sarah because they talk all about quirky and unique retail experiences. And I hope that it helps you think outside the box if you're thinking about branching out into brick and mortar. So if you want to get the links to the articles I share in this segment of the podcast, you can sign up for my email newsletter by visiting joyjoya.
com slash sign up and you'll get a digest with the links whenever a new episode drops. Okay, let's get to my interview. So Jill and Sarah, it's so great to have you on the podcast.
It's lovely for you to be joining me today. I would love for you to tell the listeners a little bit about your background in brick and mortar retail experience and how did you arrive to the point where you are today with your consultancy?
SPEAKER_01
Sure, well, first, thank you for having us. This is very exciting. For me, I started in retail, like so many other people I think that start in retail, sort of by accident.
I actually graduated from college with a degree in finance at one of those times that was not a great time to go into finance. Not knowing anything else, I actually started looking at joy companies. I come from a long line of jewelers.
My father was a French jeweler, my grandfather was a diamond dealer. So I really knew nothing else. And I just started to apply for jobs and I got a job.
Actually, I was hired actually by the finance department at Torno for inventory management. The job ended up evolving really into more of an in-store role. And then I became more involved in store operations and then I was in merchandising and one thing led to another and I became director of store operations.
And then I actually, when I left Torno, my thought was to actually leave retail. And I went to David Ehrman and my first job there was actually as director of distribution. They didn't actually have any retail stores.
They were 100% wholesale at the time. And two months later, after I started, we, because I was already involved with it, opened our first retail store. And I think that was when I saw the writing on the wall that it was fate for me to be in retail and ended up opening 45 stores for David Ehrman.
And I was there for 17 years. So it only became natural after so much time in retail to opening so many stores and seeing the changes of what's happening in retail for Sarah and I to use our talents together
SPEAKER_03
to help others. Amazing. I feel like retail is one of those things, especially jewelry.
Like once you're in it, it like gets your claws in you and you can't get out.
SPEAKER_01
It's like in your DNA, actually.
SPEAKER_03
Totally. How about you, Sarah? What's your journey looked like?
SPEAKER_00
Sure. So my background is actually in fine art and then I moved to New York City the month that Lehman Brothers went bankrupt. So it was a little bit of a weird time.
And I also found my way into retail via visual merchandising and store design at Tiffany and Company. And it was a really interesting time when I started because they did have an established network of stores, but it was really a time when the company was moving from being merchant driven to more creative driven. So I got to evolve with the company.
I was there for five years working global creative visual merchandising and eventually got the chance to join John Hardy before they had any retail stores and help with that creative development and wound up opening a network of stores with them as well, which is actually where I developed my great appreciation for, you know, I love of creative development, but also great appreciation for what Jill does, which is how I met Jill and just the importance of a strong partner in operations.
SPEAKER_03
When did sorry.
SPEAKER_00
When did you guys meet 2017 or 18.
SPEAKER_01
When I actually when I started John Hardy.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah. When did the idea for the collaboration come into play? Like how did that evolve?
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I think we look, I'm speaking for Jill. I think we love working together at John Hardy. And so I always kind of hope that we will continue to work in brick and mortar or in some capacity together.
So I feel like it felt very natural to join forces in this, in this way.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you know, not to digress, but we, when I started, Sarah was already there. And we, you know, I have an orientation of people I'm supposed to meet, but and we, I sit down with Sarah and somehow we start talking about packaging.
SPEAKER_00
We sit the whole time talking about packaging.
SPEAKER_01
We never got to actual in-store visuals. We just spent the entire time talking about packaging. And at some point we started just calling each other partner.
So eventually we just thought being business partners was norm was what we should be doing.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah. I love that. Seems like a totally natural progression.
What types of services do you ladies offer and like, what's your ideal client profile? Who do you typically work with?
SPEAKER_00
So typically we work or like to work with companies that don't yet have their foot in the door of retail. So most likely a digitally native brand, but it could be otherwise. We love jewelry, but that's not necessarily, we've worked in some other fields as well in other categories.
But really somebody that hasn't actually yet established ideally their first door, because in theory, and again, Jill cut me off if you would want to or jump in or whatever. But it's kind of us helping brands take the first steps forward in the right foot and really establishing a really strong foundation in retail so that they're ready to grow if they want to continue to expand.
SPEAKER_01
I think what we do certainly is also, we started at the very beginning so we can help somebody really find the right location, which we know the location is so important to finding the right talent. Again, I'm a firm believer in talent in especially luxury retail is crucial. And then really doing all of the little details until we can get a retail store running, like about well oiled machine, which is what I think what everybody's looking for.
So, you know, we really, for us, what we offer as far as our services, it runs literally the gamut and you know, our goal is to, like Sarah said, to help companies that haven't ventured into this space yet to be able to take off that heavy lifting so that they don't have to, you know, hire internally people like us, we can help even train people into internally if they don't have that skill set, you know, already in house.
SPEAKER_03
So, it sounds really like it's a holistic approach rather than like, here's one service, here's another. It sounds like you're really looking at what that brand needs and how you can best serve them and their goals. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00
I think that's the benefit of working with us. Again, I think there's such an important balance. There's, you know, developing really strong, creative, experiential environment that supports the brand messaging, but then also having the support of the people that are running the store and the function of it is just critical.
You can have a great idea and a creative, but if it's like functionally not there or you have a terrible sales team that's really not doing you justice, it's really hurting your entire efforts. So I think we bring a very strong, holistic approach to retail.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah. So what does the landscape look like right now? I can predict people listening to this are like, people who've never had a retail store before, you help them in a post COVID world, like, what the, that sounds crazy. What are you seeing out there? Like are people eager to get to open their retail spaces? Like what does that look like?
SPEAKER_00
So I actually think this is like we are approaching a retail renaissance. I think there's been, her so long we've all said, retail needs to evolve, but I think, you know, COVID has definitely pushed that forward a lot more. Of course you're seeing a lot of vacant storefronts and a lot of empty spaces, but you're also seeing this really new level of excitement.
There's new opportunity in a way that wasn't there before COVID, as far as leases go, as far as the flexibility from landlords, you're seeing, and now I'll let Joel speak more to this too, but like you're seeing, you're seeing community driven efforts to like really revitalize retail, which is very exciting. I'm seeing landlords making efforts to create accelerator programs for brands that aren't in retail. So there's all these opportunities that I don't think were necessarily there prior to COVID that make it much more palatable, approachable, in a way that used to not be there, or I don't believe was there.
And then I also think that there's just this huge hunger now. You know, a lot of us are vaccinated and ready to really have super exciting immersive, yeah, exciting experiences. So I think there's a hunger for it as well.
SPEAKER_03
That sounds very exciting. Jill, did you have anything to add to that?
SPEAKER_01
I just think that what we're going to see a lot more of is a lot of these brand partnerships before COVID brands were very much, especially the high end luxury brands that really thought they were exclusive, realized that they really need each other to survive. You know, no one wants to be the last man standing in a mall. And so I think that, you know, they're realizing that and they're working together.
And you know, one of the projects Sarah and I are working on is a project in the West Village of in New York, which is called Shop the Village, where it's really the brands on the streets that created a coalition to bring back retail. And they've now partnered with the Chamber of Commerce and, you know, really made it into an event. It's actually starting this weekend where the streets will be closed and they'll have, you know, you'll have musicians and they'll have art for kids.
So they're really trying to, to brands who normally, you know, kind of stayed on, stood on their own and, you know, really drove traffic to their centers or realizing that they need something else and are really trying to be more of the community and had the community involvement in order to survive and then to bring in other tenants. A lot of those streets, those stores are closed and it's really an opportunity for people, you know, for the landlords to see, to bring in tenants, you know, potential tenants to see what can be done and what is happening to the area. So I think that there is so much potential.
And I think that Sarah said, as far as the real estate, you know, the big guys are still not making deals, you know, they're still holding out. There's a lot, especially again in New York, all these mom and pop landlords that, you know, the building has been in the family for generations and they just want it to be rented and they're willing to take short term leases or leases that are on a scaling basis. You know, I've seen a bunch of leases where they're, you know, in the first three years or almost half of what it will then be, assuming that in three years, it'll be back to normal.
So there was a lot of scalability and a lot of opportunity for someone to venture into retail that didn't have that opportunity before.
SPEAKER_03
So many interesting points. I especially really liked what you said about the collaboration and how it's more like a community effort. I'm totally seeing a lot of that in marketing as well because a lot of brands are getting frustrated with social media, with the Instagram algorithm, kind of feeling like they don't have the reach that they used to, that they can't reach the target customers and brand partnerships, you know, are a really great way to share target audiences and kind of, you know, keep the love flowing, I guess, you know, put out those good vibes.
So it totally makes sense to me that the same thing is happening in retail spaces as well. So since you work with a lot of brands that are just getting into retail for the first time, I'm sure you've seen it all. You've seen the mistakes or you are aware of them so you can direct your clients away from these things.
I would love to hear about like some of the biggest things to avoid or biggest mistakes that you've seen out there.
SPEAKER_01
Well, for me, I mean, I think that, and again, going back to the people, I think people are so important and one of the biggest mistakes I see is people not hiring the right people. You know, I walk into a store and especially during COVID, no one engages with you. Someone sitting behind their computer.
And you know, you walk into a store because you want to engage with somebody. You don't want to sit there with them on their computer. You want to learn about the product and you want to touch the product.
And so somebody encouraging that in the store is so important and that's where I'm seeing right now so many mistakes, even with brands that are existing brands that are, that people are getting caught up into their technology world, even in front of the customer. And I think in front of the customer, we need to be present and give them that experience. And then, you know, in my past, I think one of my biggest mistakes I saw was that people, you know, especially with brands that were in wholesale, they would open a store like they were opening a showroom and didn't allow for all of the movement that necessarily needed to happen within a store.
And that's, you know, certainly has, you know, evolved a lot over the years. But again, you know, I keep going back to the people because it's people I think who really make the difference and they need to get away from their computer.
SPEAKER_03
Definitely. Would you say that there are certain characteristics that you look for when you help facilitate hiring for maybe jewelry brands in particular that you think makes for like a good sales person or is it individual to each client?
SPEAKER_01
I mean, some of it is going to be individual to each client because obviously each brand has its own culture that you need to make sure that this person will be able to adapt to. But for me, when I hire salespeople, the first thing I always look at, you know, obviously they're sitting in front of me because I already read their resume. And typically I know the brands and I know the companies that they've worked for.
But I try not to ask some questions about their resume. I try to see how long it takes them to really establish a rapport with me because that's going to be the indication of how they're going to be able to establish a rapport with a customer.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Sarah, did you have anything to add to that?
SPEAKER_00
No, I mean, that was lovely, Jill. But as far as mistakes made, I think it's just making sure you're really clear on what message you really want to tell, like big picture message you want to tell of the brand and really keep that focused in mind when you're establishing all the different touch points in your store. I think it's good to step back and like sometimes you get hyper focused on little minute details that your customer is never going to notice.
So really focus on does this all really affect the big message I want clients to come in and take away from their experience of the brand or am I getting too focused on this little detail? Lighting for jewelry is critical. I would just make sure you're spending your money in the right places and definitely for jewelry lighting is key.
SPEAKER_03
Interesting. I have some thoughts about, so I don't ever facilitate hiring. I'm not involved in that process for my clients.
But it's something that sometimes comes up when I'm speaking to brick and mortar clients because inevitably there's crossover between the customer experience and with marketing. Like those salespeople know the customers better than anyone in some cases more than the owner or the person in charge because they're on the floor interacting with customers. They know what are the things they can say to customers that will make a sale or what are customers responding to the most.
And that information and data can be extremely valuable for marketing. And if your salespeople aren't in tune with those things or they don't really care to be at all invested in it or pay attention to it, it kind of leaves the marketing team hanging a little bit because they're missing such a big piece of information when it comes to the customer experience. Another thing I've also noticed is especially for really small businesses and the need to be super engaging and interactive on social media, sometimes those salespeople are the ones that can be the best at brainstorming new content or even potentially creating content because again, they're the ones in front of the product all day.
They know how to make it look the best, how to showcase it the best. So if your salespeople are kind of like, no, this is my job, this is like the list of things I do and I don't care about anything else. It can be a challenge when other people are trying to like improve the business and make it shine.
Those are just some things that I've noticed.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. And actually what's interesting, you know, what's happened with e-commerce becoming so much of a larger segment. A lot of companies are losing sight of that face-to-face interaction that provides companies with so much information.
And you can't get that same information from a survey or from, you know, checking off a box of why you returned something. I think returns are an amazing example of being able to understand why something is coming back. I mean, that's something that helps marketing.
It helps product development, product engineering, you know, quality control. And that's information that if you're not in the store and you're not face-to-face with the customer, you're not going to be able to, one, get all that information and then certainly relay that information to the appropriate parties that need to help evolve the brands. And I think that that's, you know, really, you know, and speaking to a lot of people, one of the things that is missing and the surveys and the people using all these survey forms and all these things, you know, trying to get that information, but they're not getting the same kind of anecdotal that you get when you're actually engaging with that customer.
SPEAKER_03
Exactly. And I mean, sometimes customers who fill out those surveys like hindsight is 2020, like they're not in the moment with the product. Like they might have a different memory of the brand or how they interacted with it.
So to turn that on its head too, like not only is hiring important, but the retailer needs to really appreciate and value the information the salespeople can give and like see them as a helpful resource and see them as like the people that are on the ground, like with the customer. So I think that two-way street is so important too in that retail experience. Yeah, exactly.
So you mentioned brick and mortar, especially for brands with an e-commerce presence, like the additional value add that that can give. What are some other reasons that you think brick and mortar is here to stay? Like this is the evolution of retail. There will always be a need for this brick and mortar channel.
What are your thoughts about that?
SPEAKER_01
Well, you know, I think, you know, there's a lot of reasons. I mean, we talked a lot about the face-to-face, but I think, you know, specifically in jewelry, that jewelry is such an important purchase that it's something that is done in person. It's, you know, in some cases, you know, I mean, certainly there's all levels of purchasing jewelry, but on the higher end, you know, in some cases, it's like buying a house or buying a car and you're not going to buy, you know, two online and then return one when you're buying something like that.
And I feel like it's the same thing with jewelry, you know, at certain price points. And I think that a lot, you know, from what I'm hearing also from a lot of brands is that, you know, they're relying on volume over price point because they're not getting those higher prices online. And to get that, you need to have that in-store experience.
And it's because, you know, not because people aren't going to spend it, it's because they need to be in store to be able to see it, touch it, feel it. And it's a moment. It's a moment in time for people.
It's a special occasion. You know, we buy jewelry for birthdays and anniversaries and special occasions and it becomes, you know, a sentimental and memorable moment. It's not just, you know, reordering, you know, your regular subscriptions on Amazon.
And I think that that's why especially jewelry and other luxury products, you know, brick and mortar is never going to go away.
SPEAKER_00
I completely agree. I also think it allows you to tell your story and engage your brand with the client in a completely different way that you're really limited with e-commerce in. So whether it's just the whole layout of the store, just the look and feel of it, your ability to touch the product, you know, the synths, the sounds, everything.
I think that really can leave a long lasting impression well after the time of the visit with a client in a way that is just different with e-commerce. Absolutely. That's why I think it'll never go away.
SPEAKER_03
I mean, I totally agree. But I'm glad you guys are on board here, the experts. So I'm like, yes, I love a good in-store experience.
So I'm happy to hear that. So we talked a little bit about COVID and I don't want to say like the opportunities it has created, but in some ways it did because it shifted things so dramatically that in some ways it did open up new possibilities for some brands. It also changed the retail experience so much.
I mean, things like social distance shopping and a dish like more digital elements and virtual elements in the in-store experience, new technologies kind of were implemented. What are some things that you think were really positive coming out of COVID and that are kind of here to stay that are now like this is the way we're going to shop?
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I don't know if this is necessary along the digital lines and I don't know if we've necessarily seen this in a very big way yet, but it's something that I feel pretty strongly about and that, you know, your store isn't going to be looking exactly like your e-commerce site. It really needs to be completely unique and different. And I think a lot of, in a lot of ways, the lines need to be blurred.
Like before COVID you were seeing a lot of luxury brands open, complimentary restaurants and like kind of having these blurred experiences. So I see there being much more of a store that's luring the lines between a store and an art gallery, just where it's something where you want to go, you want to experience that you want to engage. Yeah, just something that's exciting.
I think we all really miss that sense of discovery and exploration that I think in good retail can be found.
SPEAKER_03
Do you happen to know any examples off the top of your head of a store? It doesn't have to be jewelry. That's kind of blurring the lines in an interesting way. Totally.
SPEAKER_00
I mean, this is a pre-COVID story. It's a brand that does it exceptionally well as Gentle Monster, which is a sun glass brand based in South Korea. I think years ago I was in Hong Kong for work and I was just walking by and there was this storefront that was really interesting.
It had this sliding glass door and come to find, you know, each store is different, but this store's concept was like train journeys. So you basically walked through what was like a train experience with these different installations of sunglasses. And it was just really fascinating and mind blowing.
And yeah, each different store has a unique installation or unique concept and it makes you want to visit and it really kind of speaks to their unique perspective on interesting artists' partnerships and just being really unique in themselves.
SPEAKER_03
That sounds great. I never heard of that brand before when I checked them out now.
SPEAKER_00
They have a store in Soho and in LA.
SPEAKER_03
Oh, really? Okay. I'm going to have to look that up. Yep. Go check it out. Jill, do you have any examples that you love?
SPEAKER_01
You know, I don't know if I have those kinds of examples, but I just wanted to talk a little bit about what I think that COVID has done. You know, we've talked about Omni for so many years, right? And we all have our definitions of Omni. And no one has, no one really was doing Omni, right? We talked about we want to be able to give our customers a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, you know, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a.
But I think that's really, really, really important. And we have, you know, when they want, when they want, where they want it, how they want it. Um, and COVID brought that to a whole new level because, you know, who would have thought they wanted to deliver to the curb, you know, um, and who would have in, and it also, you know, internally, you know, every company that I have worked with or worked for have always.
You know, there's always that, even though we, we claimed we were Omni to the customer weren't seamless in our approach and really managed. We would always say, you know, it's the customer of the brand, not the customer of the channel. We all knew that the customer who shot multi-channels was our most valuable customer.
All things that we knew, but we never really did anything about it. And this COVID really made it come to fruition that we need to work together as channels. You know, we need to really make sure all of the people in our store know how to ship something to a customer or to deliver something to a customer, wherever that may be, whether it's on the curb or, you know, even at their home.
And I think that that has just, you know, completely maybe really changed the internal conversation that's happening in companies that's going to really help the customer in the long run and really change that dimension.
SPEAKER_03
Have you seen any really interesting or inspiring or unique omni-channel solutions or like executions?
SPEAKER_01
You know, there's one that I've seen a while ago, you know, really on the fashion side, where, you know, really it's in the in-store technology where you have that virtual you know, a try-on room where you it would actually scan what you brought into the into the room and you can then, so it would know you've brought this in a size six and this in a size seven and you can actually touch to say I want to try this on and a size eight and somebody would bring it automatically to you. And I think that that kind of technology is going to really take off because people, you know, especially that touching and feeling part, I think it's going to take people a while to kind of get back to that, especially as so many, you know, so many stores, you know, didn't even have their changing rooms open, you know, during this time that it's going to take a you know, a while for people to get used to it. And I think that those kind of experiences are what will really help that experience.
I know I miss going to the store and just trying stuff on.
SPEAKER_03
So what are some trends like we're halfway through 2021 basically retail experience, customer experience, trends that you see or anticipate for the remainder of the year and even beyond that? What do you guys see on the horizon?
SPEAKER_01
Well, you know, I think, you know, as far as where I see the retail going in the next, I'll say six months, you know, New York is on this, you know, particularly is on this reopening, you know, you know, exhibition, like to open up everything and to really be and I think that what's going to happen and people are already seeing it that retailers is going to take off because people are going to go in and shop because they can and because they want to and the weather is going to be great and tourists are going to be coming back into town. And then there's going to be a wall, everybody went to store, everybody, you know, probably spent more than maybe they should have, which is great. And then we're going to have Christmas and we didn't have Christmas last year.
So again, everyone I think is going to flock to stores and this is just my theory. So flock to stores Christmas is going to be amazing. And then it's going to be really 2022 when we really understand what the next phase of retail is going to be.
Because I guess one of my biggest concerns is that the, you know, the people who were first starting out in retail will hopefully really understand that things need to be changed and really need to be part of this retail renaissance and money exchange. My fear is that those legacy companies that have now seen what may be one of their best Christmases ever are just going to rest on their laurels and go back to the way they were doing things. And that's not going to be the future of retail.
So my fear is that we'll see more fallout in the sector before we really know what that next real generation of brick and mortar
SPEAKER_03
retail is. That's so interesting. I know just from anecdotally, a lot of my clients typically have like a busy time and a slow time, but nothing really makes sense anymore.
I feel like the patterns have all been disrupted. So it was interesting for me to hear what you said about kind of the acceleration and then maybe the feeling we spent too much. So maybe there will be a lull and then back to holiday.
So it is kind of like reassuring and refreshing to know that nothing really makes sense, but also it's difficult to plan and predict in that way. Yeah, it's very
SPEAKER_01
difficult. I mean, you know, we work with people who are trying to plan budgets and, you know, they're trying to go off for 2019. Do we go up to 2019? I obviously can't go off of 2020.
But what they're seeing now is a roller coaster because things are shutting down and things are starting up again. So it's a really, it's a complicated time to really plan and plan properly. And I've heard about a lot of companies too, where we're seeing that image also affecting the supply chain of not being able to either keep up with it or having too much of it.
And so it's going to be an interesting ride to see how that all falls out.
SPEAKER_03
There are there any other trends that you anticipate for the rest of the year and beyond?
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I already kind of mentioned it, but I think blurring the lines of the experience. Most recently, we went on a little tour of Lower East Side, which had a lot of interesting shops open up since COVID, one of them being Bode, which is Heritage Fabrics Clothing Company. That's a terrible description of it.
That's amazing. But we walked in and it was a very, we had an amazing sales associate talk to us. The store is beautiful and super personal, like so many I think Heritage Fabrics are.
So it really told this family story. The creative director founder put different very personal items throughout the store. And then when their neighbor store closed, which was actually a coffee shop that had been open for 40 years, they just took over the lease and didn't really have a plan for it at first.
And they've reopened the coffee shop and then just added a tailor shop in the back of the store. So it's a definite experiment, but I think there's something really special and sweet that speaks to their brand beautifully. So I think again, there's opportunity now as far as some leases go, and there's just room to be experimental and to create retail experiences that aren't selling to you the same way they are on e-commerce.
They're engaging. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03
That sounds cool. I want to go to that store. Come visit us in New York City.
Yeah, I know. I'm planning to go later this year and I haven't been since 2019. So I feel like it'll just be a whole new world for me, like all the new stuff.
Unfortunately, seeing stuff that's closed, but I'm looking forward to checking it out. Definitely. So can you speak at all to.
.. We talked a little bit about Omni Channel, consumers growing expectations around Omni Channel. How do you think that is working in relationship with the ways brands are evolving? What do customers really want to do? We think we know what they want, but I don't know.
SPEAKER_01
You know, I think, like I said, we talked a little bit. I think that they really... You know, what they want, they want to be able to do like we said and get what they want when they want, where they want, and how they want it. But what we also need to add to that is price.
So one of the things that's really happening now is also the price sensitivity. And I was just reading your article the other day and everything then led to the price. So in order for a luxury to really, I think, thrive in that type of environment is ensuring that their price and their quality are in line and are what the customer is envisioning.
I think, you know, we need to just be able to match those customer expectations, which, you know, is always changing. And I think that's going to continue to change. But I think that we need to be sensitive, and I think sensitive is a good word, to what has happened to people's lives and their pocketbooks and make sure that that's relayed in our approach.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah. I think that applies to marketing too, like the way you portray your brand, the way you communicate with your customers, making sure that you are being sensitive to their experience and just how crazy the world's been. So it translates, it should translate to messaging also in addition to pricing.
I'd love to hear about your own personal connection to jewelry, because it seems like you both are super passionate about this space. I think Jill, you were really involved in WJA. I just want to hear, let's talk about fun stuff.
What are you guys, how are you involved with jewelry?
SPEAKER_01
Well, I think I started off by saying I was born in jewelry. So it was literally, you know, my, I come from a long line of failing. My, like I said, my father was a jeweler, bench jeweler, my grandfather was a diamond dealer, an antique dealer.
I had cousins throughout the country in jewelry at all different, at all different places. So there's, we will really believe it is in our DNA and in our blood, because there's just a certain part of us that got that gene and don't, we don't know how to get out of it. And, you know, and certainly today, you know, as far as, you know, I just think jewelry is something that is, is timeless, you know, you know, it's one of those things that, you know, there are certain things you buy because it's the hot fashion.
But so much of it is, is legacy. And it just, you can, you buy something and you, and it goes down from generation to generation. And, you know, and that's what's, I think, so special about it is that it's, you know, it's an important piece.
And it's something you can always, it's easiest thing to carry with you, right? When you're, when you travel, like, you know, add another piece of jewelry and to the same black dress and you've got a whole new outfit. So I think jewelry is just it's, you know, and again, it's that sentiment, you know, and some, when you see, you know, I hate to use the expression, but, you know, you know, when you, when someone sees that little blue box, you know, they know it's something special, you know, and, and that reaction and that, that importance of jewelry is just, I think, a connection and it makes a connection between, you know, more than just a wedding band and engagement ring between two people is that ongoing, you know, I just always remember, you know, again, going back to my family and, you know, my grandmother would remember like, everything that my grandfather bought for her and for what occasion it was from and, and it was, you know, and I do the same thing with what is my jewelry or where I got it and when I got it and, and those are, you know, it's memories that are just passed down and a part of that, you know,
SPEAKER_00
sentiment. Absolutely. Sarah, how about you? I definitely don't have the same storied family history and jewelry as Jill does.
My grandfather was a tobacco farmer. So, but when I started at Tiffany company, I guess that's where I really caught the bug. I don't think I really had an interest before then, but just joining a company with such an amazing history with such beautiful things, I really got immersed and fell in love very fast.
And then I think it's, it's been kind of a passion ever since. And it's really interesting to once you kind of start to delve into jewelry, like even going through my grandmother's jewelry pieces, when she passed away, like there was a Tiffany Silverbangle that my grandfather gave to her when she like he returned from the Korean War, something like that. Like there's so many special stories that are so unique to jewelry and special to jewelry that it's, it's really one of my favorite categories to work, work in because again, it's, it's special, it's handed down, it has a meeting, whether it's, you know, I bought this for myself because I was promoted or, you know, this is a love gift for my husband, like, yeah.
SPEAKER_01
You know, and just, you know, going back to you asked about my work with WJA and I've been, you know, with them for a long time, and it was really during COVID when I found myself with some more time and I started mentoring a few people. And, you know, what I love about mentoring people is hearing, like what you're saying is hearing their stories or like, what, like, what made this 21 year old decide to go to GIA? Like, what was it? Like, what attracted you to it to make you, you know, want to go into jewelry, you know, and some of them it's been after time, so it wasn't maybe necessarily their first choice. One woman I was speaking to, you know, she is, you know, not that much younger than I am, but just decided to go into jewelry recently.
And I think it's all fascinating of why people chose jewelry because it's not like, like when you're growing up, I think like everyone wants to be a fashion designer, you know, no one says I want to be a jewelry designer, you know, it's not like one of those things that's kind of in the, you know, in that scope of what people think are, you know, glamorous. And so it's always interesting to me to see, understand what attracts people to the jewelry world. Absolutely.
This has
SPEAKER_03
been such a great conversation. I love speaking to you both. Can you tell our listeners, like, if they're interested in talking to you further or they want more information, how can they find you and what are some things you're working on or things you're excited about for the future?
SPEAKER_00
Sure. So reach out to us please on LinkedIn, Sarah, Daniel, and Jill Stein, brick and mortar, NYC. Our website is www.
brickandmortarnyc.com. That was a multiple part question. I believe the
SPEAKER_03
next part was what we're working on. If there's anything that's like making you really excited right now or any last thoughts you want people to know about what you're working on, but if not,
SPEAKER_00
that's fine too. I mean, I think we're excited to see Shop the Village come together, which is this weekend. It's on Bleecker Street.
Hang out outside on the street, shop, meet with friends. It's going to be a good time. So excited to see efforts like that come together because I think it just opens a world of more exciting, interesting opportunities.
Jill? Yeah, well, everything that Sarah said,
SPEAKER_01
and then I think that what's interesting is that we've been talking to the brands that haven't ventured into retail and who are really looking to shake things off. And it'll be, I think, we're really excited to see what comes out on the other side of that and what we can really work with of digitally native brands and some brands that don't even have a product sell. They have like an, that are looking to see what they can possibly do in brick and mortar.
So I think there's a lot
SPEAKER_03
to come. Yeah. That's so exciting. Well, thank you so much for joining me today.
It was a pleasure to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure to be able to speak to Jill and Sarah all about the customer experience in brick and mortar gave me a lot of really great ideas and even hope about the future.
And I'm so excited to see how different jewelry brands continue to evolve in the brick and mortar experience. If you want to learn more about them and the services they offer, you can visit brickandmortarnyc.com. And if you ever have questions for me or comments, you can email me, Larissa, that's L-A-R-Y-S-S-A at joyjoya.com. Thanks for listening. Remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode.
For more information about marketing services for your jewelry brand, visit joyjoya.com where you can download our free ebook, Proven
SPEAKER_02
Conversion Strategies for e-commerce jewelry retailers.