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SPEAKER_00
All right, well, what do you want to talk about, Sam?
SPEAKER_02
Did you see I lined up? You have like a little crush on Mr. Beast, I think, right?
SPEAKER_01
I do not have a little crush on Mr. Beast, but I think he's doing interesting stuff.
SPEAKER_02
So his manager's coming, and I think we lined up. Did we line up one or two more people? Yeah, his manager's coming. Next podcast, the podcast that comes out Friday.
And then that deep Senadill, you know, those guys, they're reached out to me. I will hope to set something up with them, but no more guests, or we don't have a lot of guests playing.
SPEAKER_01
Our friend Sully's coming on in a couple of weeks. Oh, is he all right? That's cool. Sam, you seem out of it.
Are you OK?
SPEAKER_02
I'm tired. I'm tired. That's all.
SPEAKER_01
Do I need to crack open a topochico for you?
SPEAKER_02
No, I'm good. I'm good, man. It snowed in Austin yesterday.
I was freezing my ass off, and I stayed inside and slept and didn't exercise that much, and it still wore me out.
SPEAKER_01
So I'll give you, I'll do an idea. That's based on the way you're feeling right now. So are you familiar with smelling salts?
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I mean, originally they're meant for, like, waking someone up after an injury. Yeah, like after a knockout? Yeah, like Barstool Sports uses them as a joke, where they, like, go and find someone whose eyes are closed, and they put them under their nose to make them throw up.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so basically, I've been looking into smelling salts, and I originally wasn't going to even talk about this idea on here, because I gave it to a friend of mine to execute. So nobody copied this idea. But if you can help out or you got ideas, feel free to chime in.
But I like this idea. So smelling salts, traditionally, I only knew them because, okay, a boxer gets knocked out, you wave the smelling salts in front of their nose, and they wake up. The other option is you, or the other people that use them are like weight lifters.
So before, like any weightlifting competition, you'll see a lot of weight lifters, you know, crack a smelling salt open, and basically just, you know, use it to get kind of amped up before they do their lift. And it's a stimulant. And so same thing with football players.
There's a whole bunch of videos of Peyton Manning and a bunch of NFL players before games using smelling salts to sort of get amped up and get ready to go. So I thought that's interesting. And I'm somebody who I never drink coffee.
I don't drink any coffee. I don't drink any soda. So I basically never do like caffeine stimulants, but I'm really into this idea of being able to quickly snap into like, I don't know, like a peak state of mind.
All right, I treat like, I treat my work day like an athlete treats their pregame, you know, routine, like, you know, I don't just get up and start, start working. Like in the same way, an athlete doesn't just kind of roll out of bed and go play a game. Like they have a warmup and they have a routine they do beforehand to get themselves ready to go.
Do you take smelling salts? I don't. And I don't because smelling salts are not that good for you, right? Smelling salts have ammonia. It's not terrible for you, but over a long-term basis, it's known to like irritate the lining of the nose and the skin, the interior of your nasal passageway.
And it's not great for you, but it's effective. And so, and it's more effective than most than like coffee or, you know, like drinking a shitty energy drink. And so I thought, okay, what if I can create a smelling salt that's not bad for you? So a smelling salt that doesn't have the same harsh chemical but still has the same stimulating effect.
And idea would be to sell this to two groups of people potentially. One is like the pre-workout crowd. So pre-workout is a big supplement category.
So like no explode was one, but there's a whole bunch of these pre-workout powders you take, basically just something to get you amped up before you work out. And it's not a protein powder, it's a pre-workout powder. And then there's another group of people that I think would be good for this, which is just people who work at a desk who are kind of like productivity nerds.
And they want to like optimize themselves. They want to do a little bit of biohacking slash like productivity nerdery to make this happen.
SPEAKER_02
Did you look at the, have you looked at this stuff on Amazon? Yes. So I typed in smelling salts. So there's this, the leading company looks like it's called Atomic Rhino.
SPEAKER_01
And there's another one called like something sport, ammonia sport, that they all look like that on the cover is like a guy exploding with steroids basically. It just looks like a meathead product cause it is a meathead product today.
SPEAKER_02
Oh my God, this is crazy. I'm going to buy this. The reviews are really good.
They're probably all fake, but it's how interesting. Yeah, but this one, asylum smelling salts. Right. So good, you go crazy.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, exactly. So that's the, all the existing products in the market are branded like this. And then you have a whole other batch of like people that buy products that are, you know, like essential oils and whatnot.
They're kind of like a different brand. And so what I, so I talked to my,
SPEAKER_02
Listen to this one. It's called nose torque. The most potent, long lasting, smelling salts available.
Number one choice of power lifters worldwide. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01
I don't want nose torque, but I'm down to get like amped up and in the zone. So I saw, here's what I did. So I called my friend, one of my best friends from college is this guy Tophiek and he's a ear, nose and throat surgeon.
Now, and he's like, you know, probably one of the smartest guys I know on balance. And I asked him, I said, Hey, how bad are smelling salts for you and like, are there alternatives? And he basically said two things. He goes, well, you know, a smelling salt is just a really, really strong odor.
In fact, it's a monion. Basically it smells like piss and like a really strong concentrated form of piss. It's a stimulant.
Yes, but it's not like it makes you, you know, stronger. In any way, it doesn't like actually do anything to you, but like, it's like, it's sort of like a placebo effect because if you do it all the time, so if you keep taking it, if you have a really strong odor before you do something and your body starts to act a certain way, it will anchor that connection. And so like, if you want to get into that state of mind, that mood faster, the smell can just become an anchor for it.
And so he's like, yeah, and he gave me a couple of compounds. He's like, these would be superior alternatives to the ammonia blend that, you know, the ammonia formula that these guys use, use this instead. This won't have the damaging effects, but we'll still have the strong stimulant.
And so I think this is a little, a fun little D to C idea. I'm going to do it. I have an operator now who's doing it for me because I don't have the time.
And I can't wait to see where this goes because I think nose torque and, you know, like nasal blaster are not the way to do this.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I'm looking this up. This is something. I can't believe this.
Will be interesting to watch. I would never bet my money on it, but I would love to pay the entry fee just to watch you.
SPEAKER_01
So I'm going to build this one in public. So everything from sourcing to whatever. So I'm having the guy who's who's working on it, basically working on it, blog about it.
I'll announce that a little bit. You know, when he when he writes his first thing, we'll kind of introduce anyone I know. Yes, someone, you know, someone who, in fact, has even been on the podcast once in a small way.
So we'll leave it as a teaser for now.
SPEAKER_02
But I smell like salts. Are they the same ethnicity as you?
SPEAKER_01
They're not the same ethnicity as me. No. Hmm. So that's one idea. Let's do another idea.
So actually, I'll tell you about something pretty interesting. Since you didn't really have too many topics, I'm just kind of kind of monologue half the podcast and you react to these things that are going on. All right.
So I've been what's the right way to introduce this? OK, so something cool happened to me last week or two weeks ago where I got a DM from somebody. Can't say who, but it's like a very well-known person in the kind of like tech world. Somebody who I kind of like look up to, consider like awesome.
I don't know this person, so I was surprised to get a DM from them. And they basically said, hey, join this like kind of private community on Apex. I never heard of Apex.
Don't know what that is. So join this private community on Apex. A bunch of us are on there.
I think you'll like it. And I just thought this was spam. I was like, oh, someone's account got hacked.
And they're just trying to like, they're just spamming everybody using this person's account to try to grow their thing, I guess. So I wrote back, actually kind of rudely, I was like, OK, did you get hacked? What is this? And the person was like, no, did not get hacked. Why don't you know what you mean? I'm inviting you to this.
And I was like, but you don't even know me. Person's like, well, actually, I've seen you on Twitter, followed you for a little while, just put a respect. So thought I'd invite you to this.
And I was like, oh, sure, this might be real. OK, so I go and click. I was like, what's Apex? So Apex is a new app.
So anybody can create their own Apex. They can create their own little island. So you can create an island.
So this person had created one. You can invite whoever you want to it. You invite a real person.
But once they join, you can make an anonymous or sedamus where you can pick a random username. So the idea is like a digital masquerade party. So you invite all your friends, but everybody comes with a mask on.
So nobody knows who's who, but everybody knows we're all kind of like, we've all been curated here. It's not just Rando's of the internet. What's it called? The app is called Apex.
And it's out. It's not a test flight. So it's actually in the app store.
And I really like this idea. I've actually, myself, wanted to create something like this. I wanted to create a version of this that was public.
I wanted to invite a bunch of badass people. Let them all be anonymous. But everybody in the thing is badass.
And so they feel free to say whatever they want. But it's not just random, anonymous, egg accounts on Twitter or YouTube comments.
SPEAKER_02
How would I find this? Private groups, Apex private groups. It's like two arrows up. Two arrows up, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01
Interesting. So there's a bunch of Apexes, right? So I'm in one. I just created another.
And I'm like, OK. So I created one.
SPEAKER_02
Oh my gosh, dude. This is so weird. Why would they do this? If you go to the Apex screen, the app screen.
The app store? Like the app store preview. In their demo picture, the username is called FRIJEPSTING.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. Well, I don't know which one you're looking at. I see one that says Kill Blinton and Beth Jesus.
Those are the ones that I think. FRIJEPSTING. And then the group is called The Illuminati.
And so they're leaning into. They're leaning into this is a place where you can say what you want, which is timely. The president just got de-platformed and banned off of every social network.
This has been an ongoing issue. I've gotten in hot waters for this. You've gotten in hot waters for this, where you say something on Twitter.
It's associated with your real name. You get kind of like a lot of backlash for it. And then the next time you tweet, you sort of think twice before you do it, because hey, I don't want to ruin my reputation just if people disagree with me.
Or if I say something kind of without thinking about it. Or I have employees. I got a company.
I don't want advertisers to pull out. If I say something, that's just my personal opinion. So I like this.
I think this is the way the world is going, which is a retreat away from social media to private media. I think people are leaving the town square, and they're going to their favorite pub, and they're going to close the door. And people are going to hang out in private groups more and more and more.
It's already happening. And this is, I think, an app that is well designed to do well. There's just two guys behind it that I've seen on Twitter, a designer and a developer.
And it's very cool. So I created a new little one. I'm going to invite some people to it, let the masquerade go.
And it's cool because I can invite people. And then to get in, you have to authorize your Twitter. I can set it where I can say, they have to prove they are who they say they are at the door.
And then they create their account, their username, and whatever else after that. And then you can.
SPEAKER_02
Who can verify that they are somebody?
SPEAKER_01
The creator of the group, of the private group.
SPEAKER_02
The host of the party, basically. So can I tell you my prediction on this? Yeah. It's going to get quite popular.
If it raises seed funding early on, it's ruined. Because what? If it stays independent for a while and gets a huge user base and then raises money, then there's a shot.
SPEAKER_01
Oh, OK. Gotcha. So it's not the raising that's going to.
It's not the raising that kills them. You're saying it's a signal. Like, if they get a bunch of money before they get hot, I think I'm going to bet that they die.
Is that it?
SPEAKER_02
It's kind of like a WhatsApp type of deal. Or something that it's already successful and it's already big. We're just going to make it bigger and more successful.
And if they do a thing where they raise money early on and they get too much of the wrong hype, I think it's going to die.
SPEAKER_01
OK. I can see that.
SPEAKER_02
I can see that. Like, there's three apps that I'm referring of that are the same thing, like the secret thing.
SPEAKER_01
So like, OK, here's what we'll do. I will create one for listeners of this podcast. Well, let's try it out.
We'll see what happens. So the way to get it is the app is called Apex. If you search the app store, Apex Private Groups.
And the symbol is like two little arrows going up. And I created a group just now. I'm calling it Platform 9 and 3 quarters, just like Harry Potter.
SPEAKER_02
And I'm going to get this. Oh, don't do that. Just call it My First Million.
How do you do my? I don't even know how to type in 3 quarters.
SPEAKER_01
Is 3 quarters is 0.75? I did 0.75. OK, I can rename it. So I'll rename it to My First Million.
I'll put the link in the description of this podcast episode. That's the private link to join. And it's a mass great party.
Now, I don't know if that group particularly is going to be that interesting. I think this is interesting when you kind of like curate the set of people. But we'll try it.
And we'll see what we'll see. So you can see who they are. I can see when they join who they are.
I don't think once they join, I don't think I know what they set their name to and who's who. I don't think that would be.
SPEAKER_02
You just know that. I hope that person is in the room. And they're one of the five here.
SPEAKER_01
I just know at the door, I can say yes or no to the person. And once they're in, I don't know who's saying what. I don't know who's who.
I hope that's the way it works. If I can just always see everybody, that's kind of lame. Let me see.
Yeah, I don't think I could. Yeah, I cannot see. Once you join, I don't know.
I can't tie your real identity to your username.
SPEAKER_02
I'm excited to try this. I don't have my phone on me, but I'll use it.
SPEAKER_01
And by the way, here's the other interesting thing. The group I'm in, you have what you see on Facebook and Twitter every day. Like, OK, I go check social media.
Everybody says X. Everybody's kind of in agreement. This is good.
This is bad. These guys are evil. These guys are heroes.
And then I'd go into the apex. And it's like not the opposite opinions, but you hear people say things there that you just don't hear people saying in public social media. And that's why it's quite addictive to keep checking it.
SPEAKER_02
Because it is interesting. There's this.
SPEAKER_01
And they're not idiots, because they were invited. They were curated in. It's not just like RANDOS.
SPEAKER_02
There's this firm who you and I know well. It started as a two-person VC company. They were associated with me.
And they say they have this very public presence. And when they talk about stuff, I'm like, OK, you feel that way. In private, one time I've brought a few things up.
And I'm like, well, you know, you believe this. And they've just been like, oh, no, that's not me. No. This is working. That's way too woke.
We don't believe it. Like, that's no. Just like, we want to get.
We're just here to get rich. And like, they just, well, how do you feel about that? My opinion is that is the week of the week. And I want nothing to do with you.
SPEAKER_01
For people that are kind of two-faced, you mean?
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, or. But another perspective on this is fair, which is like, yeah. But there are plenty.
So like, you and I have a couple friends that maybe have this persona of being this nice person. And in real life, they're just cut throughout Ruthless. And they'll destroy you.
Maybe one justification is, yeah, they're playing the game. I mean, this is just how it's played. And they're just trying to get yours.
You can't be mad at them. But then the other side is like, no, you're a punk. You don't have any integrity.
Just like, sit, call it like it is and be you 24 seven. Where do you come out on that of like people in this app not talking like that? All right, everyone. Today's episode is brought to you by Imperfect Action, hosted by Steph Taylor.
It's a podcast on HubSpot's podcast network, the audio destination for business professionals. Imperfect Action is a bite-sized online marketing podcast for business owners. So join Steph Taylor as she answers all your business marketing questions that deep dives into the nitty gritty of online marketing, content marketing, social media marketing, and marketing for strategy for business owners.
A few recent episodes include some of the biggest mistakes you can make with your launch. Another one is why growing your audience feels so hard in 2022. And another one is five ways to make content creation less consuming.
So check it out. It's called Imperfect Action. You can look it up wherever you get your podcasts.
SPEAKER_01
I think two things. One is we're all guilty of it. So we are all guilty of signaling one thing to the public.
And there being a gap between reality and what we signal. So the innocent version of this is you go post on Instagram pictures of yourself at a brunch cafe with avocado toast and a mimosa. And you're saying how great life is.
And then you go home and you're lonely and miserable. Like we don't post that part of our lives. And so there's a silent lie that happens there, which is you lie through omission.
You only say the good things that make you look good. And you don't share any of the things that don't make you look good. And so there is a false presentation of yourself.
That's level one. Level two is what you talked about, where it's like, or sorry, level two is you think something, but you decide not to say it because you don't know how other people are going to feel about it. You let their opinions of you matter.
You care what other people think. And so you censor yourself. You're afraid.
That's level two. Fear and self-censorship take you out. And then there's level three, which is what you talked about, which is just a straight up lie, where you say one thing and you actually mean another or believe another.
And yeah, if you're level three, I also consider you kind of like a punk. And you lose some respect points there. And I try not to do that ever myself, but maybe I've done it at some point in my life.
I'm definitely guilty of levels one and two, where I only post the good shit, leave out the bad shit, and also think something, but don't know how other people are going to react to it. Might as well just not say it. Don't cause a fuss.
SPEAKER_02
Well, that's different. That's a little different. Yeah. Can we talk about this guy who you have listed, the best segments that I get from you or the Billy of the day?
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. Which one do you want me to do?
SPEAKER_02
There's only one up there, the guy with such a decay, right?
SPEAKER_01
It's not a guy. That's a woman. So the woman's name is Catelyn Carrico.
I have this person as Billy of the week in reality, not a billionaire, but just a fucking baller. And this story is incredible. So do you know who this person is? Like, did you know them before this? Never heard that name.
I didn't know them before they see them. So Catelyn Carrico, and I hope I'm saying the name right. I've never heard it said.
I've just read it.
SPEAKER_02
By the way, in one of the most recent reviews, someone said that even though I butcher everyone's name, they're happy that I try really hard.
SPEAKER_01
Because I do. All right. So this person is kind of the key person for why we have the COVID vaccine, so a little bit of science.
So normal vaccine is you get injected with like a dead or weakened version of the virus, right? So you send in a version of the virus with its legs tied together in handcuffed. It's dead. It's weak.
And your body creates an immune response to the virus, right? Those take a long time to develop, and you can't always develop them for all different types of viruses. The reason we were able to get this vaccine done faster was, obviously, A, the whole world decided this is a big problem. But B, they used a different technique, a technique called mRNA vaccines.
If you just take out all the science jargon in simple terms, what it is is mRNA is a little messenger. The messenger has a little envelope. The envelope is like, here's the genetic code of the protein that's on top of the virus, right? Like a virus is just like a little cell that has a protein on top.
It's kind of like that's its face or its hat. If you want to recognize the virus, look at the protein. That'll tell you which one's the virus.
So the messenger RNA goes in with the envelope. The envelope says, this is what the hat looks like. It goes into your cell.
The cell opens up the envelope and says, oh, this is what the protein looks like. Cool, let's make some of this protein. And your ribosomes make the protein, and the protein goes in your bloodstream.
So you get the protein of the virus, so your body can start to recognize it and fight it. But it's just the protein. It's not the actual virus.
You can't get sick from it. So that's the breakthrough in the way this vaccine works. And so this woman has been working on this technology for, I don't know, 30 years or something like that.
She's like, came from, I don't know, somewhere in Eastern Europe, in Germany, Ukraine, something like that. And she was working on this. And then everybody initially was really excited about mRNA vaccines.
It was like most things. It's like there's the initial hype, like with VR or crypto or whatever. And then there's the trough of sorrow where people give up on it.
They're like, ah, this will never happen. And so in the 90s, everybody in the scientific community gave up on mRNA vaccines. This woman basically threw away her career because she believed in it.
She was like, all right, I know there's no funding for this. Nobody will hire me to work on mRNA vaccines. There's just no money in this space.
But I believe. And so she just kept working on it and kept persisting all the way through the 90s, a decade plus. And eventually she published a paper that kind of showed what the power of mRNA can be for various use cases.
And that paper was read by three different groups of people. One was this guy at Stanford. And he was like a kind of a postgraduate PhD person at Stanford.
He reads this paper that she put out and goes, holy shit, this is going to be big. And starts working on mRNA. He ends up inventing a company called Moderna.
Moderna is one of the vaccine creators, one of the people who, one of the companies that has the vaccine for COVID. And it's not looking at it. Moderna is only 10 years old.
Exactly. So this guy leaves Stanford. He partners up with two scientists.
There's a guy, this badass guy. This guy is actually like somebody who should be Billy of the Week. He is at MIT or somewhere.
And this guy's got like 250 patents that he sold to pharmaceutical companies. So he's like the man when it comes to commercializing this stuff. And so these three guys co-found Moderna.
And Moderna is now like, I don't know, how many $10 billion-ish company off of this woman's work. They license her work. So another company gets started called BioNTech.
They also read this paper. So imagine how cool this is. It's like Satoshi with the Bitcoin white paper.
She just publishes the scientific paper. And then people all around the world are reading this. And the light bulb is going off simultaneously with three different companies at once to say, oh my god, this is going to change everything.
And so BioNTech gets formed. They basically bring her on as like, they licensed her tech. So she got paid as a licensee of the technology.
And then now she's like the vice president or whatever of their science division. So she's kind of like a co-founder of one of the companies. That's also doing very well.
SPEAKER_02
She looks exactly like I would expect her to look.
SPEAKER_01
She looks like a hardened person.
SPEAKER_02
A hardened Hungarian biochemist. This is correct. She looks like she.
SPEAKER_01
And her daughter is like an Olympian, like a gold medalist. Like she, you know, like this whole family is probably just bad ass.
SPEAKER_02
Yes. This woman looks like she will solve like she looks like the female version of James Bond.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, like she's a bad ass. If you just read like kind of what she went through as an immigrant working on this thing nobody believed in. And now she's going to win the Nobel Prize for this.
Like 20 years later, the payoff happened. That to me is like so admirable to believe in your thing when everybody all stops believing. And you just say, fuck it.
You just keep going for two decades. That's like three decades. That's that is bad ass.
So she's 66 years old. So she's part of one of the companies. And then there's another company doing this.
And now Pfizer and others are using this same technique to cure COVID. But this is not just going to cure COVID. So like this idea of mRNA vaccines is actually the most promising path we have to curing cancer also.
And I'm not saying it's going to because like there's a lot of false hope when it comes to these things. But you know, the way we try to cure cancer today is we're like, oh, you have cancer cells in your body. Let's just nuke your whole body with radiation.
Let's kill the good cells, the bad cells. You'll lose your hair. You'll throw up.
Like let's just kill you. And like right when you're on the brink of death, we'll stop giving you radiation. And like hopefully we've killed the cancer cells in that time.
And what this instead will do is it's going to allow for what's called like a designer vaccine for cancer, which is people are going to figure out what cancer you have. Oh, here's the cells that you have that are cancerous. What proteins do they have? And then let's create the vaccine just like we did for COVID with mRNA to get your body to produce those proteins and start to build immunodefenses for it.
So it's like immunotherapy.
SPEAKER_02
When you hear these stories, do you think that, well, I'm working on this clothing company or I'm looking on this video game platform. And then you read this and you just do you say to yourself, I'm worthless.
SPEAKER_01
No, I say to myself, I'm going to tell everybody how awesome this person is so that the five people that listen to this that are capable of doing this are going to be inspired by this person. They're going to go do something like this themselves.
SPEAKER_02
OK, that's such an easy out. I'm the messenger, baby. OK, that's a good answer.
Yeah, correct. Fine. You could say it.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, honesty. My my true answer is something like that. Like when I took a step back after we sold and I was like, all right, what do I do with the next 10, 20 years of my life? Like what do I want to work on? I was lucky that the thing I like to do, which is like learn stuff and teach stuff through things like this podcast or whatever.
I think genuinely that is the highest leverage thing any one person can do.
SPEAKER_02
Well, I think that's silly to compare. But it's undeniably interesting that if you can have a large audience and tell them of cool people who deserve to be well known, you're right.
SPEAKER_01
That is that's noble. Of cool people. I'm just saying in general teaching, I believe, is like a multiply.
It's a force multiplier. I agree with you. I go try to do something myself.
Right. I'm one operator. I can be the greatest operator in the world.
I'm Elon Musk or somebody like that. That's like the pinnacle of that. I agree with you.
On the other hand, you could be a teacher. A teacher basically is going to now have a number of students. Right. So I could reach a million students. I could unlock them as operators to be better.
And now that's leveraged what I have in my head.
SPEAKER_02
OK. But think about it differently. We talk on here about boring businesses all the time.
We talk about it. The reason we talk about it is like, well, we haven't heard about it before. But also, they make a lot of money and it's easy and it's not a lot of work.
Well, it's a lot of work, but it's simpler and it's a surefire way. At the end of the day, and this isn't an insult. At the end of the day, that's a very hedonistic way of viewing life.
That's very much like, I don't care what I'm doing because I'm providing for me and my family, which supplying for you, giving your family a good life. That's not quite hedonistic. But it's still like, if you include your family, and it's quite selfish.
And again, nothing wrong with that. But that's what it is. But whenever I go and get sick and meet a nurse practitioner who helps me or hear about this woman, I'm like, there is.
You know how people say, just because you're rich doesn't mean you're more valuable than someone else? I agree with that. But then I hear this woman, she could be poor. I have no idea.
I'm like, oh, that woman's more valuable than me and more valuable than a lot of others.
SPEAKER_01
Yes, the people who are like the Catalan Carricos and the Elon Musk's and the guy who started microfinance or whatever microlending, the people who go and someone who is going to go and fight climate change, let's be honest. They don't listen to this podcast for the most part. And if they do, the things they're hearing here are not really going to help them do that thing.
Like the great scientists, scientists, entrepreneurs, essentially, they are motivated and inspired by different things altogether. There's a different teacher for them. There's a different person out there who gives them information and inspiration, and it's not me for the most part.
If I do what I do, though, there's a different argument, right? There's the hero argument, which says, the world needs Elon Musk and Catalan Carricos to solve the big problems and make us all better. That's what I'll call the top-down hero solution. Superman flies in, saves the day.
And then there's the bottoms-up solution, which is like, well, if every single person got a little bit smarter, a little bit happier, a little bit healthier, a little bit more kind, and a little bit more motivated and inspired every day rather than feeling that they're going through the motions, if you solve it at the individual level for the masses, you make the world better in a different way, right? And so that's the bottom-up approach to doing the same, to having the same level of impact. So if I was going to be a little dreamy about what I'm doing or what not feel like a piece of shit, I should say, it's like, well, if I can help a whole bunch of people be a little bit healthier, a little bit happier, and a little bit more free financially so that they can spend their time doing what they want and not in some kind of tedious, monotonous job every day, that's a different type of unlock versus these people who are going to have these big breakthroughs and solve big problems for humanity.
SPEAKER_02
People talk about legacy fighters a lot, athletes, particularly at UFC, guys. They're like, it's about legacy. And then business people also say that as well.
They say, all right, I have money, now it's all about legacy. And I'm like, OK, yeah, your legacy is making your name known, part of it. Your legacy is definitely leaving the world at better place.
I think that's cool. But then I always try to look at the opposite of everything. And the opposite of that is just live a quiet existence.
And this is what I said about being hedonistic and selfish. Live a quiet existence, have a ton of fun, and take care of your family, and just seek pleasure. And part of me is like, legacy's cool, but why the hell do I care? I'm dead, screw it, I'm having fun now.
Like when I think of Steve Jobs, he was like, yeah, but how are you going to change anything when you're not working 80 hours a week? And I'm like, I'm not. Right. Yeah. I don't want to. Those things bother me because I'm like, we value these Elon Musk's world, and I acknowledge they need to exist.
But then most of the time, I'm like, I don't want to do that. Fuck that guy.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, well, there's a question of like, do I need to change the world? How do I want to live? That's fair. OK, so I was listening to something interesting. I'll tell you about this conversation.
So I don't know how randomly on YouTube I got onto this video that was Scott Adams, who's the creator of Dilbert, and Naval Ravikant, who's like kind of the Silicon Valley guy who created Angel List and a bunch of other cool things. They're at his house. They're at Scott Dilbert's house, and they're just talking.
They're doing a periscope, and they just recorded the thing. And they agree about a bunch of things. And then one question came up.
They go, what do we disagree on? Naval goes, I think we disagree on the importance of having kids. And Scott's like, what do you mean? I got kids. He's like, well, yeah, but you adopted biological kids.
And he's like, and Scott's like, well, like, and then they kind of laugh. And so I was like, look, look, look, look, I'm not saying adoption is bad. I'm not saying foster care is bad.
I'm just saying, for me, it was really important to biologically, I have my own biological kids, and reproduce basically. And his core, he's a scientist, and he's basically at an evolutionary, from an evolutionary point of view, we are reproducing machines. All that we're doing, those of us who made it this far, is because in our genes, there is a desire to replicate, to reproduce.
And that's how we stayed on. And other people who didn't care about reproducing didn't reproduce. And their genes are now dead.
And so Scott goes, well, I would say I'm reproducing, but just in a more efficient way. He goes, I put out ideas into the world through my blog, through this live streams, through my comics, with Dilbert. If my ideas go live on, they'll live on far longer than any child of mine will.
Like an idea can live forever. An idea can get into like thousands of people where I'm only going to be able to have a couple of kids. So for me, my replication is what I'll call mimetic, and not genetic.
And I thought that was interesting. And I've always found this interesting. And I think I've brought this up before.
But part of your legacy, it doesn't have to be what you did. It can be an idea or philosophy you put in the world that lives on far beyond your flesh and bones, your little meat sack that you live in. And so do you think about that? Forget about legacy.
Oh, I'm the guy who built the railroads. But do you care about your ideas spreading? I mean, to some extent you do. Otherwise, why do this podcast?
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah, definitely I do. But I ask myself why. And is that really important? OK, so there's the fun factor of like, yeah, it's awesome.
You're powerful. You're rich. You do whatever you want.
That's cool. What's the opposite look like where you're not that? Is it a significant difference in happiness and fulfillment? Right. Maybe not.
I don't know. But I do question this.
SPEAKER_01
All right, so of those three paths that we just talked about, and maybe there's more. Path one, the point of your life, you're optimizing for enjoyment of your life. Number two is you're optimizing for legacy or some kind of impact on the world.
And then three is you're trying to have your kind of ideas spread and your ideas are your legacy, not your accomplishments. Which one resonates the most to you or none of them?
SPEAKER_02
As of now, I think I'm a three, either a three or a one. And then something. I thought for sure you'd say one.
I think I'm more of a one of enjoyment. But in the future, I think I'll be a number two and impact. But as of today, right now, I have a feeling.
I don't know this yet. I have a feeling when I have children, it changes a little.
SPEAKER_01
Does it? Not really. I guess it changes, but maybe for different people in different ways. When I'm with my daughter, I kind of like, I guess I'm in one of two modes.
Either I'm like, oh my god, I just want to go do something else. This is so boring. I've read this book 45 times in a row, like bubbles, bubbles everywhere, bubbles, bubbles in my hair.
I'm just tired of this. I want to go do something more fun. Do you know how fun the internet is? I'm tired of this babysitting that I'm doing right now.
And then other times, I'm with her and I'm just like, dude, who cares about success? All I need to do is just hang out with her. She's awesome. And I don't really need to go be super ambitious.
What a waste of energy to go sit in my room on my computer. And I'm literally in one of those two camps at all times.
SPEAKER_02
I think this is normal, but maybe not. I think that for the people who are extremely successful, they don't waver. Right. But maybe I'm wrong.
SPEAKER_01
I don't know. I have another idea for you, because I think we got philosophical for a bit. So which idea do I want to do? This kind of seemed anticlimatic when we're talking about what's the purpose of your life.
And I'm like, oh, here's an idea.
SPEAKER_02
That's OK. By the way, Sean, people have been telling me they like listening to us because it's not always strictly business. They listen to us on a regular basis because they need.
Someone was comparing us to all in that podcast. And then Morning Brew's thing, I don't know what it's called. Apparently, they both talk about politics a lot.
And someone was like, oh, I hate that. I just want to turn my. They say they want to turn their brain off, but at the same time, they turn it on with us.
But we don't ever talk about.
SPEAKER_01
Well, it's an escape, right?
SPEAKER_02
We have. Yes, it's a very good escape.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. And I always wanted to rename the podcast. What was it? Idea porn or something like that? Because porn itself is also kind of an escape.
It's just kind of a pleasure thing. It's not like a long term commitment. I think a lot of people listen to these ideas not to go do them all, but just because it's interesting and entertaining.
And then they can be done with the podcast and be done with it.
SPEAKER_02
Embrace the banter, embrace the escape. Are you going to talk about micro biz?
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. All right. Did you see what I did with this? This is funny.
SPEAKER_02
No, I looked off. I like the sound of that, though.
SPEAKER_01
All right. So you actually missed this opportunity. I pounced before because you didn't reply.
So wait, how did I not reply? OK, so this guy, Andrew, runs this company called MicroAcquire.com. Yeah, he's in the trends group. Yeah. And so he emailed you and me. And he emailed us both and was just like, hey, kind of a fun idea.
There's a bunch of small micro businesses, like a $5,000, a little business that's good buy for $5,000. What if we just gave it away to somebody in the community? And then I guess you didn't reply or whatever. And so he DMed me.
He was like, what do you think? You want to do this? And I was like, yeah. And so then literally, I didn't even really reply to him. I just tweeted it out.
I was like, people don't really know this, but buying businesses is most awesome ways to go as an entrepreneur. Instead of building from scratch, you could buy. And if you want to just learn about business, don't go to business school.
Let me save you the time and money. I'll just give you one of these micro businesses and go learn by doing. I'll just give you this $5,000 business.
And I said, Andrew, what do you say? Were you in on this? You want to do this? And he was like, so I kind of made it public, like what he was doing at the DM. And he's like, hell yeah, I'm in. And I'll provide some coaching and we'll waive the fees of the transaction or whatever.
And then other people started chiming in, like, dude, this is awesome. I'll chip in 5K too for free. And so we ended up with $57,000 in the bank of people who are willing to just let us basically, now we have a $5,000 bankroll to go buy a business.
Now it's a $57,000 bankroll to go buy a business. Because people were just like, yeah, just pick a cool operator, let them take one of these businesses and run with it, and let them build it in public and talk about it as they go. This is a cool experiment for science.
SPEAKER_02
So what business are you guys going to get?
SPEAKER_01
So then I said, all right. So then a bunch of people replied as, like, pick me as the operator because, like, hey, who doesn't want to just get a business gifted to them. We found a couple of people.
And I think we're just going to do, like, a 30 minute phone call with the final two or three people and just pick one from there.
SPEAKER_02
Give it to Henry Johnson.
SPEAKER_01
Henry Johnson? OK, I don't know if he replied to it, but I'll check him out. I know who you're talking about. He's very active in our community.
And so then I went through all the businesses and was like, OK, which one is good to buy? And most of them, I would say, are bad, like to the point where I was like, OK, if I gave someone this business, I'm giving them kind of a shitty job to go to. So I want to avoid that. This experiment will be fun if the business has enough potential where this can actually grow into something.
So picking a good operator and a good business are important here. So anyways, I'm curious of what's going to happen. We're going to finalize the whole thing this week.
And I think what we're going to do is we finalize the money. We finalize who the operator is this week. And then we're going to take a 60 day window and we're going to say, all right, in the next 60 days, it's like a little tiny micro-spack.
It's like, you have 60 days to find a company to acquire with this blank check. And we're going to publish the whole thing on my newsletter about, OK, here's what they're doing. Here's how it's going, so on and so forth.
So I'm excited. How do you have time to do all that? Well, I'm not doing it. I'm just picking it.
I just tweeted it out and I picked the operator.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, but even organizing that stuff is good.
SPEAKER_01
Andrew from Micro-Acquire is more of the guy who's going to make it happen. Because for them, this is the best fucking advertising. He was showing me the stats from the tweet.
Just from the tweet alone, I think he got 4,000 or 5,000 followers on Twitter, which probably doubled his Twitter following. And then he showed me the Google Analytics of the site. And there was 1,000-plus concurrent users on the site at that very second.
And so I'm sure he already made his money back just in terms of people buying the membership or finding out about it. But it's credit to him of it was his idea to do something cool like this, give away a business. That's a way better marketing push than just saying, hey, did you know my site exists? Come visit it.
I think he deserves the additional traffic he's going to get out of it. But he's got to do the work now to make it all go. I'm not going to do the work.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I'm looking it all up now. It's a great site. He's been doing it for a minute.
And now it was OK at first. Now it's really getting cool.
SPEAKER_01
I really like the concept of the site. I would say just in full transparency, most of the deals on there, I think, are very bad deals. But whatever.
That's any marketplace. It has a bunch of junk and it has some really good stuff. That's where all the value is.
So don't be like, oh, Sean said microcard is great. I'm going to go buy some business on here. I would not advise that as just like do your homework.
SPEAKER_02
OK, your shoulders. Are they tired? I'm carrying the weight this whole time.
SPEAKER_01
No, dude. I just get stronger as the hour goes on.
SPEAKER_02
OK, let's do one more. Last one, maybe Eureka surveys.
SPEAKER_01
I want to save that one. The guys. So we talked about user testing.
And these guys are doing something dope in that vein. And he DM me and he shared the numbers. But I think they wanted to push out of private beta into public beta.
So he's like, wait one week to talk about it. I was like, all right, fine, no problem.
SPEAKER_02
Well, you want to do one more?
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, let's do one more. OK, here's like, OK, I'll give you two really dumb, simple ideas. Maybe something like this exists.
But I were going to do these pain points. And maybe somebody could build a simple tool that solves these. So the first one is Amazon affiliate links.
So you say on your blog, you used to sell Amazon affiliate, right? I used to have this affiliate links. Yeah, I would make about four or five grand a month. And to do that, you have to become an official affiliate or something like that, correct?
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, and I've been banned many times for doing stuff that I didn't think was banable.
SPEAKER_01
There's kind of a process you have to go through to do that. Because for example, a bunch of people were asking me about my setup of a podcast and stuff like that. I was like, OK, cool, why don't I just publish this one?
SPEAKER_02
You have to have a blog. But for example, I didn't know that you. So there's rules.
You cannot. There's many rules. But one of the rules is you cannot email people a link.
Yeah, which is crazy.
SPEAKER_01
So you have a newsletter. That's what I was going to do in a newsletter. And I was like, how do you do this?
SPEAKER_02
And they banned me. It's a big pain in the butt. Or the other day, it used to be like 4 and 1 half percent commission.
They just said, all right, for most all these categories, now it's 2%. They just change it whenever.
SPEAKER_01
OK, so this idea might not actually be viable. It might not work with the term of service. But basically, like a one-off link shortners like Bitly and shit like that, why not just a one-off way to generate an affiliate link for Amazon products? Because I don't want to go become a merchant and a long term affiliate and become a blogger.
None of that stuff. But why can't I just like affiliatize my link once?
SPEAKER_02
Well, there's this company called Skimlinks. Have you heard of Skimlinks? No. Is that what that is? It's an Eek.
Yeah, a little bit. They're about 12 years old. In 2017, they did $1 billion in gross market.
Or what's it called? GMV, yeah. GMV. So let's say they took a 30% or 40% cut. That's $300 million, which I don't know if it's that high.
SPEAKER_01
Probably way less, is my guess. What? Even 2% of a billion is not nothing.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it's actually probably 30, 40 million they do. But that's what they do. And they've been around for a while, 12 years.
It's a pretty reputable company, pretty big. They've raised tens of millions, maybe close to 100 million in revenue. And it is kind of similar.
And it's quite effective. You never heard of Skimlinks?
SPEAKER_01
I've heard of it once before. But I didn't know if it works for, does it work for Amazon products or no?
SPEAKER_02
I don't know exactly how it works. But I know that they cold email me on a regular basis to sign up. But I guess you're saying something valid.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so basically, I just think there should be a disposable, simple way to affiliatize my link to whatever product it is. And somebody should make a bitly that just does that easily. Maybe Skimlinks is kind of already this.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, and it's actually owned by another company. Have you ever studied ad tech?
SPEAKER_01
I mean, not studied it, no.
SPEAKER_02
Man, these ad tech companies, OK. So the company that owns Skimlinks is called Contexity. The company that owns Contexity is called Symphony Tech Group.
Founded in 2012, its total portfolio includes $2.5 billion in revenue and 15,000 employees. There's ad tech companies that you, unless you're in the world of ad tech, have no idea exists that are just massive, massive, massive, massive.
It's amazing. Oh, wait, sorry. Symphony Tech Group is PE.
I was wrong. But you get the idea. Like, some of these ad tech games or ad tech businesses are freaking nuts.
SPEAKER_01
Right. And I don't really understand how most of ad tech truly works because it's such a complicated machine of cookie swaps and data transfer. And it's just all kinds of like, oh, the pixel is hashed.
And then the hashed user is passed to here. It's like, what's going on? Like, how do these businesses work? And who the hell thinks of this stuff? And obviously, there's a lot of money to be made, so good on them. OK, here's another kind of simple idea.
I think I've kind of said this before. But Facebook advertising is one of the big industry. There's probably like 9 to 10 million advertisers on Facebook.
Let's say even half of them are active or whatever. Let's say 4 million active advertisers on Facebook. Make up some round numbers.
And the ad manager is just like such a pain in the ass to work with. It's a horrible thing. And one of the biggest problems with it is just visual.
Just going and checking how are my ads doing. And they present it in this very sterile table kind of way. And I think that somebody, I think that there should be this somebody who just says, all right, how do I build a layer on top of Facebook ads that is useful to some of the forward 10 million advertisers of Facebook? Like, what should they look at every morning? How do I make this presentation more visual? Like, how do I take all your ad creatives and then layer on the data on top? Or how do I show you, you and your competitors ads? And just layer on top of the Facebook ad manager is.
Have you seen ad espresso? Yes. So I've used ad espresso before. And I found it OK to use.
It kind of got outdated.
SPEAKER_02
It was like, kitty shit. The problem I found that if you get really complex, if you learn how to operate ad manager, it's quite complex. And you need it to be complex.
SPEAKER_01
Right. I'm not saying replace that manager. I'm saying build things using that as the data source.
There's certainly going to be some value ad thing you can do that just uses that as the data source. And people are going to be willing to pay you monthly to get extra value or alternative view or different level of insights.
SPEAKER_02
You want to hear a crazy story about this? So there was this company called Contextual or Context Logic. You know what that is? You ever heard of that? No. Chris Redlitz, one of my seed investors and a good friend and mentor of mine, he was telling me about this company started 10 years ago in his office.
He had a small fund. And he had a few extra offices. And he let this young guy named Pete, who formerly worked at Google.
And his partner, Dan, I think his name was, both worked at Google, both build up AdWords. And they started tinkering around. And they built this thing called Contextual Logic.
I think it was called. And it was a new ad network that was doing exactly what you've described, but for Facebook. And they started using it.
And they're like, well, we need to test it. Let's sell some stuff on it. And they started selling some stuff on it.
And they just went to Alibaba and just sold crap. And they're like, wait a minute. We can't give this away.
And so they pivoted. And they started selling other people's stuff and then let merchants get on there. And they used their advertising prowess to do it.
And they eventually renamed that company Wish. That is how Wish.com started.
It was started because they were creating exactly what you're describing. And it was so good, they say, no, this is our competitive advantage. And so now they're public.
This is 10 years later, I think, they're publicly traded with a $12 billion market cap. So if you look up Wish, you'll see that they raise money under context, it's either context or contextual logic.
SPEAKER_01
And the founder is Jack. Have you seen this guy? OK, I'm going to send you a.
SPEAKER_02
Well, Pete, the founder? Yeah. Yeah, I have. I've chatted with him via email once or twice.
He's an oddball. He's very quirky.
SPEAKER_01
You can see in his Instagram picture here. I love tech founders that are Jack, by the way. I find it hilarious.
I remember one time there was the Facebook F8, like the annual conference Facebook does. Facebook is run by some of the smartest people in the world, but they're not like the most athletic or well-rounded or great public speakers necessarily. Right? Yeah, there's a lot of dorks there.
And for some reason, I was sitting there, and I was watching this, and I was like, I noticed every single exec that got up there was Jacked this year. I was like, what? What kind of who is the personal trader? What is the program that they all got on? Who's putting creatine in the milkshakes at Menlo Park? What is going on? Because there was one year that literally everybody was Jacked. I have nothing more to say in the story, but it was.
SPEAKER_02
They probably have a doctor who lives with them.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, don't they have in San Francisco? Don't they just own one of the buildings? Like, where they own all the execs have apartments in the same building in SF so that when they do need to come to San Francisco, they kind of have an apartment there. Because their office is not in San, no, Facebook. The office is not in San Francisco.
So like, Sheryl and a bunch of the other execs, I think, have a bunch of penthouse condos in this one tower. So the tower is 25% occupied by Facebook executives who are not there except for two days a month when they go to San Francisco and then they use this as their.
SPEAKER_02
And it has a Botox clinic and a TRT clinic and an HCH clinic.
SPEAKER_01
Did you ever watch the show on Netflix called Selling Sunset? Anything that's called?
SPEAKER_02
Oh, yeah. Those guys were the worst.
SPEAKER_01
Did you watch the show? Did you see the Botox thing that they did?
SPEAKER_02
Yes, the worst. I can't stand it.
SPEAKER_01
I thought that was so funny.
SPEAKER_02
That is everything I'm against.
SPEAKER_01
People who haven't seen it, they're real estate agents. They try to sell these luxury properties. And they're always trying to drive foot traffic to their open houses.
And they're open house. They're tactic. They're marketing tactic.
Most people, it's like, oh, it's an open house. OK, we'll have wine. Maybe we'll put some cold cut sandwiches out or some cheese board.
And this one girl's like, fuck that. I'm going to make. I'm going to get all the real estate agents to come to this.
I'm going to do Botox and burgers. So she had a doctor there giving Botox shots to the agents for free who wanted to get Botox at the show. And I was like, wow, what a different world than I live in that this is even a thing.
I don't think I know a single person who has Botox. Maybe I did. I'm just oblivious to it.
But I've never heard anyone in my social circle ever speak about getting plastic surgery or Botox.
SPEAKER_02
They don't talk about it. I don't think they're going to talk about it. Do you know anyone that gets Botox? My sister had Bell's Palsy where that paralyzes your face.
And so she had to get it. I almost.
SPEAKER_01
I'm not for that. I'm saying for like people who do it just for this aesthetic, you know, just for the look.
SPEAKER_02
I don't know. They don't tell me about it. No, I don't know anyone.
SPEAKER_01
What's the like most gimmicky marketing thing you've done that's like, you know, your equivalent of the burgers and Botox marketing stunt?
SPEAKER_02
Well, when I ran Southern Sam's, Wieners is as big as a baby's arm. If you put your baby's arm in a hotdog bun and put mustard on it and took a picture, you got a free wiener.
SPEAKER_01
I love that one. I have one that's like that when we were doing the sushi restaurant thing, we, you know, it's all it was a delivery only. So there's no there was no no storefront.
It was a cloud kitchen. So how do you get people to hear about your restaurant if there's no storefront? So I was like, all right, we got to make a splash. So we were based in downtown Denver.
I was like, OK, and I was just tired. I used to go and I would go into a skyscraper building or just kind of sneak past the concierge guy. I would go in the elevator and hit one and get out.
And I'd start talking to the front desk lady of every floor of like a 80 floor building or whatever. And I got tired of that. So I was like, OK, what's a what's a better technique than me going door to door selling sushi essentially? And I was like, of course, I'm a huge idiot.
Like we didn't even try Facebook ads. This is like Facebook was out. This is 2010, 2011.
Like we could have done Facebook ads. We just didn't even know. And so what I did was there was a nearby beauty school, you know, like where you learn to like cut hair and like do stuff like that, I guess.
I forgot what they're called. Cosmetology schools. And I went in and I said, hey, do you do any of your girls like sushi? And they're like, oh, my God, we love sushi.
You know, it's like bringing candy to a four year old's birthday party. And I was like, I will give you guys free sushi for life. If you put these shirts on of ours and you go downtown and you basically like, you know, the free hugs campaign, do the free hugs campaign and then tell like just basically like while you're wearing our stuff.
Did it work? And it worked. It was amazing. Like businessmen would come out of the thing and they'd be like, free hugs and like they would give these guys a hug.
The guy would like, you know, start blushing and be like, did I just cheat on my wife? And then he's like, no, it's just a hug. What's the deal? And it's like, oh, we're doing this because we're part of this new sushi restaurant that's in town. You guys should totally order from it.
The further away me and my ugly face got from that campaign, the better it worked. Like these girls were amazing. And we had like way more sales from that.
SPEAKER_02
That's a pretty good one. Think how it worked though.
SPEAKER_01
All right, we're at the hour. So, Ubrea, how did we do? How did I do? Because I think I did that episode. I know.
I'm sorry. Be honest with me, Ubrea.
SPEAKER_02
How did I do Sam did as much as I did this episode? Fuck, for real? I feel horrible. I'm just not I'm just I haven't I just feel like I'm a little drunk. So tired.
Sean, you were in a overall the episode is like a B ish. Fuck, that means I was a C though.
SPEAKER_01
Oh, you coasted to a sea. A sea is a passing grade, man. You got through.
SPEAKER_02
All right, I'll bring the heat next time then.
SPEAKER_01
All right, sounds good. I got to run.
SPEAKER_02
All right, bye.