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SPEAKER_00
All right, we're good. This is a podcast. You know, Chris D'Aliah, he always calls his audience babies.
Babies? He's like, okay babies, let's talk. No, I've never.
SPEAKER_01
It's hilarious. I only watch his clips. Make sure to subscribe to this podcast and then unsubscribe and subscribe again so we climb up the charts.
SPEAKER_00
Yes, we're climbing. I think we were top 50 a few days ago when I checked. Top, we were 65 and then we were creeping to 55.
So I saw some good movement there.
SPEAKER_01
It's like the movies where it's like a band is climbing up the billboard charts and they show like,
SPEAKER_01
It's not as funny as number one. The clips that we're posting on our social, they're not getting as much traction as I wish.
SPEAKER_00
Traction like what are your views or comments?
SPEAKER_01
Well, I only care about views and comments in order to get more podcasts listeners.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so I guess there you would need people essentially tagging their friends or you'd need to start showing up and discover.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and it's still just starting. I also have noticed that when I, I have a smaller following than our branded channels, but when I share something, it gets way more engagement than a brand.
SPEAKER_00
So I need people like following people and listening to people more. I also don't ever share it. So I should share it to that big 9,000 Twitter followers I got and, you know,
SPEAKER_01
You have 500 more than me. You have 500 more than me, but I'm gonna beat you in the next four days.
SPEAKER_00
I think I also bought 5,000 a long time ago. Me too. They degraded, they like go away cause Twitter like bans the accounts.
But when I bought the 5,000, I got way more followers per day. Same. Cause people wanted to follow somebody who already has a lot of followers.
SPEAKER_01
I'm averaging 200 new people a day.
SPEAKER_00
I don't even check. I don't even check. All right.
What do we got? I want to talk about this idea. It's not even an idea. It's a company, Arsenic.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. They've been around for about four years now.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah. I know. I don't know how they're doing. Do you know if they're doing well?
SPEAKER_01
They were doing okay. Basically the way that I knew some like media people who talked about them and knew them. And I'm almost positive that it's run like it looks like it's run, which is a bunch of kids who are good looking and rent a mansion.
And they just do like debauchery and shit.
SPEAKER_00
So the idea is Arsenic is essentially Playboy for the Snapchat generation. And so they have a Snapchat channel. Cause you know, the idea is like, okay, Playboy is big deal.
What would Playboy be like today? It would not be a magazine. It would be, you know, a Snapchat channel. And so they created the Snapchat channel, which is perfect cause it's like, if you follow it, you get it.
If not, it's not in your face. So it's not like Facebook would be a little weird. Instagram would be a little weird.
And they have email too. And they just have this mansion and they have all these models and it's not porn, but it's definitely models who are good looking. And they just have one model like sort of take over the channel.
At least this is what it was three years ago. I just think this is a great idea. They raised three million bucks.
I don't know how they're doing.
SPEAKER_01
So they've got books. They do like tours. I think that it could be doing a, the idea is cool.
I bet it's a cash cow. I think it, hmm.
SPEAKER_00
Well, I, because they were getting millions of views back then on their videos. I can only assume it's grown unless Snapchat blocked them, but they're not outside the bounds of what Snapchat allows.
SPEAKER_01
Snapchat allows porn, right?
SPEAKER_00
No, they don't allow porn, but they see a lot of,
SPEAKER_01
they allow nudity.
SPEAKER_00
They don't, if you're putting on your stories, you'll get banned eventually if you're doing nudity. What if you have a private account? They don't do nudity. What's that? For a private account, you can.
Eventually if it gets flagged, they'll take it down. Like it's not in the rules to do nudity.
SPEAKER_01
Well, that's why I have only fans. Yeah. Love it.
SPEAKER_00
So explain only fans.
SPEAKER_01
Only fans. So basically what happened is on Snapchat, all these porn stars were putting up like porn. Yeah. Like, what? Softcore porn. I don't think it was like sex, but like pay me $10 and I'll let you follow me.
Right.
SPEAKER_00
And you'll follow my account where I post nudes.
SPEAKER_01
And only fans launched. And what they did was it was a platform where they, I don't think they started with porn, but now it is that. Yeah. So just embrace it. But basically if you, I don't even think it's porn.
I think it's like web girls. Like web cam girls. And you pay $20, however much they want you to, and you get access to their private video feeds.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah. It's like Patreon, but porn basically. So you pay, you become a contributor and then you get their private photos and videos.
It's taken off. Has it?
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. And the reason, yeah. Cause I was doing like, who cares if I consume it or not from a business point of view?
SPEAKER_00
That's just how I know about it. Well, we all care if you can. And, and, and.
I mean, no surprise.
SPEAKER_01
So I did research on it. I did research on it. Of course it takes off.
Yeah. But so here's, you know why I think these things take off is the people who don't take care of the creators. They, they, they, for these types of things, they, they go away.
Yes. And so there's always demand.
SPEAKER_00
So the demand is always there. The question is, does the platform allow the supply to do what they want to do? And the big platforms don't do it because it's not worth their brand and risk and all the stuff
SPEAKER_01
because they only fans. I for sure bet. I would bet you for sure they're in north of a hundred million in subscription revenue and then they take their cut.
SPEAKER_00
That's insane. At one point in time where we had a, we had blab like live streaming product and it wasn't working. We had to pivot and we pivoted it eventually to video gaming.
But I definitely laid out a case to the company that's an investor. I was like, look, um, porn is the porn is where this would be the best.
SPEAKER_01
Like these, they're not fucking on camera. I don't think.
SPEAKER_00
Okay. Well, whatever you want to call it, like soft core porn or whatever, but like going after the sort of the cam girl market is a pretty, it's a big market and the websites that are there really, really suck. And so why does it do that? Fans did well.
We have kind of a heart to heart where like, is this what we want to build? And my co-founder felt a certain way. The investors felt a certain way.
SPEAKER_01
What did Furcon want to do?
SPEAKER_00
He was like, not down to that.
SPEAKER_01
I'm so down with that.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah. So I think it's you got to make a personal choice. Are you then I've had a bunch of entrepreneurs reach out being like, hey, we saw you did blab.
We read your postmortem. You guys got to four million users, but it didn't work. I have a very similar concept.
I think it's going to work. Can you give me some advice? And I tell him from the bat jump, I'm like, this version is not going to work. Consider porn.
I think it could work. Consider the cam girl angle because, you know, that's the one stone we didn't turn when we were considering, you know, where to pivot this thing to make it.
SPEAKER_01
I would for sure do that because they could all these like Patreon, all the shit they're like, we're going to empower creators. OK, I'm behind that. But even though a lot of times I think they don't.
But if you're going to empower a creator, imagine this like woman who can just crush it by not breaking the law and just using her own body. I'm philosophically, I'm so in favor of that.
SPEAKER_00
Right. Yeah, I think as a business person, I'm definitely in favor of it. I think it's just a personal.
SPEAKER_01
Business person, I love it as just like a human being.
SPEAKER_00
I'm like, yeah, so you want to do your body to do little ideas or trends off this. So one, there's this fund called Vice Ventures that is basically investing in things that we've covered it on trends that other investors won't invest in because like investors typically if you're a VC, your investors, they're called LPs. They are typically not just like rich individuals, they're institutions.
So it'll be like a pension fund for firefighters in New York or this, you know, the school endowment will give you 20 million dollars until you can. So they won't want their money going into certain types of companies. This is why cannabis investments started to take off because only alternative investors, investors who had a little more freedom were able to go into them.
Big investors knew they were good spaces, but they weren't able to move on it as quickly because they had to worry about their LPs. So Vice Ventures came out and they were like, look, you know, sex, drugs, alcohol, whatever, right? Like they're basically like taking sort of the seven sins. And they were like, we specifically look for companies that are doing businesses in this in these areas and we'll invest in them.
And I think it's a very, I think it's a if you're going to do a venture fund, you could either just make another cookie cutter. Hey, we're a seed fund. Come to us instead of all these other guys, or you take a focus and build a brand around being different.
And I think it was a very, very smart approach.
SPEAKER_01
I like it. I've invested in this company called Lucy. Yeah, it's a nicotine replacement or a it's basically Nicaracum.
SPEAKER_00
We got to get wasn't Dave Dave. We have to get him on because when I met him for the first time through you after Hussle Con, he spit off seven ideas in when we were just standing there talking. And I was like, I'd asked for one and then he gave me like a dope idea.
And I was like, you got more of those. He goes, yeah, I got a list. And he started reading off his ideas and they were fantastic.
So you might be listening. We got to get him on the on the couch to hear a quick porn story.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. OK. So I worked out of this. Like I work.
SPEAKER_00
You have a nod of approval.
SPEAKER_01
I worked out of this office called the Founders Dojo. And it was the greatest thing ever. I'll tell another story about it.
But basically it was if you've seen the TV show Silicon Valley, it was we had Ehrlich Bachman. It was an Ehrlich Bachman type of guy named Dave, who was a great guy, but totally inappropriate and disgusting in a good way. And the office was filthy.
And there was this guy. I forget his name, Ritesh and Chris. Oh, yeah.
And I remember that. And it was this little skinny Indian guy and he was crazy and awesome. And he was like the stereotypical Silicon Valley hacker where he could get a job at any big company and make two hundred thousand dollars a year.
But he was like, no, fuck that. I'm like, not I'm fucked the corporate pigs. Right. And so he would sleep at that office and Dave would buy him pizza all the time because he was like wanted to be poor and do this thing. And so he created a app or no, a site, a website that would crawl.
Tumblr. No, I think all the Internet. OK, for the fastest for the gifs that had the highest velocity of growth.
And so if a gif launch popular gifs, he would tell you right away which one's going to be the most popular. And then you would see it on the screen and it was called the worst drug, the worst drug dot TV is not there anymore. And that sounds like a silly thing, but that's not why he did it.
He did it because what he was trying to do was a, find the fastest like technology that can find the fastest growing stuff. And if you would go to the worst drug at time, you could type in something like dog and the search feature would auto fill like wicked fast, like way faster. And then you would click enter and it would be bam, a high def gif.
SPEAKER_00
It was high def. It was full screen. And it was all screen laser fast.
SPEAKER_01
So the technology is very like podpiper like the technology wasn't like whatever podpiper did. It was the fact that it was all behind these scenes. Like a bunch of nerds being like, yeah, our gifs load the fastest and like, look, it's like HD and it happened in nanoseconds.
And he would spend nights and I would come back and it would be just as tiny improvement, but we'd all gather around it. Well, so here's the cut. This the point of the story turns out the most popular gifs on the internet.
99% of them are super hardcore raunchy porn, like real raunchy porn.
SPEAKER_00
And so because when I went to the site, it was all porn. There wasn't like porn and then some basketball gifs and all funny ones. It was only porn.
So I was like, this is a porn site.
SPEAKER_01
And so at the office at the dojo, we would have these huge screens of like his workstation and the way that he sat was everyone could see it. And we kind of got immune to it, but it was like the raunchiest shit ever. And we would he'd be like, guys, check this out.
Early in the morning, we would come in 11 a.m., which was early. And he'd be rubbing his eyes and shit.
And he'd be like, check this out. And all eight of us would gather around this high depth screen and be like, and he would type in the word like, like facial and like, he's like, watch out, fastest loads. And we were just so immune.
We were like, you're not even looking at the content. We're not even looking at the content. We're like, oh, yeah.
Wow. You could like see the shine in the liquid. Like it was like it was so funny.
And we would have like these like lawyers come into the office and people who are actually or like investors who would try to raise money for the other companies. And we would forget that this was on the big screen.
SPEAKER_00
And what happened? So this sounds like what's the end of this guy doing now?
SPEAKER_01
What happened to the site? The site that we're struck up millions and millions and millions of visitors. The the engagement was stupidly. Like good.
He couldn't monetize it. They couldn't use it. So there were so many restrictions, no ad network were allowed him to use it.
And so even though the site, I think it was getting at least for sure, up millions, I think maybe tens of millions of monthly uniques. And it made zero money and only cost him a lot of money. And the story ends with like someone in Bulgaria or Lafayette, like this like communist ex-communist country wanted to buy the site.
And it was all weird. And they flew him out there and he's like, wait, these guys are like mobsters. And they ended up like bailing and they just shut it down because it was.
SPEAKER_00
What does he do now? Now he works at Facebook.
SPEAKER_01
No, I've never seen them. Oh, my skateboard. I had a skateboard.
I left at the office. He stole it and I've never seen him. He had to get away, dude.
SPEAKER_00
I've never seen.
SPEAKER_01
He needed to transfer Raj. That's his name. Raj. I've never seen Raj.
SPEAKER_00
All right, I'm going to hunt this guy down because that guy is going to build something amazing or it's going to be a very sad ending. But either way, it's going to be not average, not the usual.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, he was he was like, if you think of like this idea of what Silicon Valley is, that was that. Right. Wow.
SPEAKER_00
OK, that's incredible. I like that story. OK, we were talking about arsenic real quick, quick idea.
So what they're doing is the Playboy on Snapchat. If that's working and I don't know if it's working, so go look into it. But if it is working in a big way, I don't think that there's just going to be one of those.
So like in the same way that there's all these porn brands, right? There's like Girls Gone Wild. It focuses on college age things. Somebody out there could create the arsenic for college or for different, like whatever genre.
SPEAKER_01
And so I just think this is just a very beautiful arsenic is not porn.
SPEAKER_00
Modeling scanty modeling more like Playboy and Maxim Maxim.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, current Playboy.
SPEAKER_00
Exactly. So you could build Playboy, but of other genres and just or you could just literally clone them. And I think it would be very low cost.
And I think you would be able to do a lot of you be able to drive a lot of views. And I ultimately get a lot of sponsorships in the same way that Maxim and Playboy were able to make pretty big businesses out of what they do. Now, they had subscriptions, so I don't know if you would do subscriptions.
Maybe you use only fans. I'm not sure. But we should figure it out.
Yeah, I I'm going to look up the oldie fans.
SPEAKER_01
I'm interested in this. I I I have a lot of ideas. I'm going to come back a little more prepared on this because I think there is something there.
What else you got? OK, so you have HQ. So HQ died, obviously. Yeah. I thought like it could have been cool. I'm like, they could be like Jeopardy.
Jeopardy is huge.
SPEAKER_00
So if you don't know what HQ was, it was a mobile app. It was a game show like Wheel of Fortune, Jeopardy, whatever. But that was all done on a mobile app, which was when I saw this product.
So our friend Eric, who does tribe socks, he showed me this app. And he was like, dude, my friend went to go work at this company. It's really interesting.
Check this out. And he pulls it up. So at 6 p.
m. every day, they would do the game show. So you get a notification at 6, you open the app.
There's a host live, you know, live, live game show host on live streaming. And he would ask trivia questions that you would push the button or you have 10 seconds to answer, you push the button real quick to answer. And if you got all 10 or 12 questions right, you'd win the prize at the end, which at that time it was there was 400 players and the prize was like $500.
This thing grew like crazy. They had games with over a million concurrent players.
SPEAKER_01
I feel like sometimes like a million and a half
SPEAKER_00
and exactly over a million players and I believe they had over a million dollars in prize money over time. And so this thing had this run and they got tons of funding. Founders fund funded them.
SPEAKER_01
Ten million dollars in funding at a hundred million dollar valuation.
SPEAKER_00
And then they had big time brands launch stuff on there. So they were like, you know, this game is sponsored by Nike. It's all trivia about athletes and we're going to drop this shoe.
The new shoe release is happening live on HQ. And that's the prize. They were doing some interesting stuff, but it was kind of a fad.
And which everyone knew, which everyone knew because it was like games all have this hype cycle and then this decline over time. The games aren't super, super sticky, most of them. And this was definitely that.
So this big novelty grew like crazy viral product in many ways. As somebody makes products, it was very inspiring because it was like so simple, yet so awesome.
SPEAKER_01
And I actually felt like product there. I'm not trying to be hyperbolic, but I felt like there was some revolutionary things. For sure.
SPEAKER_00
It was like, oh, I'm looking at the future. This is this is what the future looks like. I still think that's what the future looks like.
HQ died for many reasons. Scott, the founders are fucking crazy. Literally one founder died.
He overdosed on drugs. The other founders, they were sort of always in fighting. They were both sort of like kind of come across, at least from the outside as sort of like moody artists.
One of them, I believe, started Vine also. Russ. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. Both of them.
SPEAKER_00
They are both the founders of Vine. So definitely sort of brilliant guys in a way.
SPEAKER_01
But everyone says that Russ is a dick.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah. And he got removed as CEO because he had some problems. He was a dick or whatever.
The other guy got removed also. Never figured it out. And the game show host, Scott, became this kind of like cult sensation because he was the host.
Everyone saw him every day and he tweeted out when it shut down recently. He was just like, this company died for one reason alone. And that's the sort of incompetence and arrogance of the founders.
And I was like, yeah, down. That is like, you don't usually hear that. We hear that like everybody's so PC and always just worried about their career.
SPEAKER_01
Well, he's a comedian. He didn't give a fuck.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, he definitely did not give a fuck because that was that was pretty brutal on the day that it shut down.
SPEAKER_01
Let's say, can I tell you what I would do? Yes. OK, so I would I have no idea if they did this or not. I would have built this knowing that it's going to die.
And so it's like, it's my thing is I'm going to be a hit machine. Right. And I'm going to use this formula. And I always thought about this with a member of like Cronut.
Yeah. OK, you know how like these viral food things like these food things go viral? I like one day sat down, I'm like, what makes them go viral? So it's and I've like broke it down to a handful of categories, which is like it's either it's got to be a food that's typically a side, but you're going to eat it in excess. So for example, only cookie dough instead of so ice cream, that's just cookie dough.
SPEAKER_00
Right. Or you make the you make the topping the main. Yep. So like one formula you could use.
SPEAKER_01
Yep. Another like or like fondue. So like fondue is typically an appetizer.
Fondue only. Right. Another thing is you take the shape of it and you make it a ridiculous shape. Yes. Easy.
SPEAKER_00
Including small to big, like there's Bob's doughnuts.
SPEAKER_01
And that's my next one, which is sizing. So you make something small, big, big, small. Right. The fifth or fourth thing is color rainbow bagels. So you just take the color green ketchup.
SPEAKER_00
Instagrammable. Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_01
And then I had a fifth one, which was some mashups, which is Cronut. Right. Oh, yeah. And then that was the fifth one.
SPEAKER_00
You take their Doritos, Locos taco, one of the most successful fast food thing in like the last 10 years was this Doritos, Locos taco. And then every fast food chain hired these agencies to be like, find me the next Doritos, Locos taco. Right.
SPEAKER_01
And so those are the five categories that I discovered. And then it's like, OK, so you just make it go viral by you have to have distribution via Thrillist, Buzzfeed. And then eventually it's like, well, you just have your own handle and then you're just going to make these go.
And then you're going to have a small shop outside, outside in Brooklyn or in Manhattan.
SPEAKER_00
And you're just going to you're always putting out bangers.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you're just going to fucking knock it out the park and you're going to have a line all the time. And then three months later, boom, that one shut down switch. Now we're doing cookie dough ice cream.
SPEAKER_00
So every season you come out with a new one viral sensation.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it's like, all right, now we're doing rain. We're doing rainbow cake now or green ketchup and hot dogs. Like you just like you just like, OK.
And so if I was I've always thought about like, man, that's the way to go. You just have a small you just are banging these out. And then for the ones that last in our hits, like Corona, it might be a hit.
I mean, that's kind of like its own category now. Yeah. Then you that's like one of your temple franchises.
SPEAKER_00
Right. It's always available. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
That's what I would do. And then so with HQ trivia, I would have the same thing.
SPEAKER_00
This is like supreme for food. It's like you have this limited scarce kind of like out there thing. What you're doing is you're making these these sort of wild concoctions on the food side using these five different.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but it's all formal.
SPEAKER_00
Yes, it's just like one of these five formulas, Zynga. And then you you do a limited edition drop. You basically say, you know, you tweet out at one am it's live.
You get a huge line. People cover the fact that there's a line and then it becomes a thing in a hipster town.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, this is so easy, like bagel bites, like pizza and bagel.
SPEAKER_00
I mean, this is back when you were doing your hot dog stand. If you knew everything you know now, but you still needed to do hot dog stand, you would end up doing something more like this, like green ketchup.
SPEAKER_01
Like that are my stick to catch up would only be green. Right. And what I did back then was I had what I did was like you just have a little stick like mine was my onions. I would boil them in Coca Cola, which a lot of people do.
I would just tell everyone I did that. Right. And so there's this is actually a famous copywriting trick, which is have you ever heard of a time like a watch like a like a wristwatch being described as like with the courts movement? Yes. They all have fucking courts movement.
Right. They all do all of them do or like space age aluminum. They all that's not even a thing.
First of all, like what's that madmen line?
SPEAKER_00
It's like our filters are rolled or something like that.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. And they're like, well, everyone's this and they're like, well, they don't know it. Right. So space age aluminum that that that means nothing. First of all, all aluminum.
First of all, nonsense. Yeah. And second of all, courts movement. Every single watch has that.
Right. And so the idea here is you just take something that they don't know, even though all the insiders know, you just tell them.
SPEAKER_00
Right. We did this experiment when we were doing the sushi restaurant where we took the descriptions of our food. So it'd be like, you know, you take a Philadelphia roll, which is like this Americanized salmon, it's cream cheese and it's cucumber in a sushi roll.
And then we would just so Dan Ariely was one of our advisors and he's the guy who wrote predictably rational. And so he would, he told us like, hey, one of the reasons wine charges this premium is because they created a whole language around what they do. You need to create a language around sushi so that people who start to learn about it feel like they know more and they want to pay more so they can have the better thing.
Just teach them what is the better thing. And so we would, you know, we started just adding words as one experiment. We would have one version of our website where it was all online ordering.
So as one version of our website would be the normal website. Then our A B test was the other variation was our Philadelphia roll would be called like, it'd be called the Philadelphia roll. And then the description would be like Atlantic, fresh, you know, never frozen salmon with, you know, Philadelphia, authentic Philadelphia cream cheese and a finely sliced cucumber.
And we would raise the price and we would get like more orders even despite the higher price. That's crazy. And so this is like a psychological thing around.
Yeah, that shit works. Yeah. Around the descriptions around things. Okay, back to HQ for a second.
So they did try to release other games. They came out with like a word scramble type game. I think they kind of ran out of time and also they had built the hype too much and less than to be learned.
When you build this much hype, if you start to fail, you death spiral way faster because the pressure of your expectations and hype will crush you.
SPEAKER_01
Well, so that's what I mean is I would have built this company expecting that like we discussed that clogging and they're like, well, they're building it. So they're going to just capture all the value up front and then let it die. Right. So if you would have built that right, like built that into it, it would have been it could have been a company kind of like, I imagine seeing it does this, which is they just have like, they're like, all right, this game is only going to last 80 days, maybe. Right. So two quick ideas on this HQ thing. So HQ died
SPEAKER_00
okay, you know, rest in peace. But two things you could do if you wanted to make use of this, of the insights that were found in this. I think you can do this on top of Twitch or YouTube or any live streaming platform that already has audience.
So you don't need to be your own app. You should just host create a channel that's hosting a show and give away the prize money and promote it in the same way. And so I think somebody could build this on top of one of the existing platforms, not have to build your own tech and not have to acquire downloads of your app, which is really expensive.
And I think if you just did this every day at 7pm on Twitch, I think a bunch of people would tune in. Second idea around this is maybe the HQ format, which is this live video streaming with this charismatic host and question and answer could be used in education. And so I would love to see somebody create an after school game that parents actually pay $3 a week to subscribe to where your kid learned science through some Bill Nye the Science Guy type of host and it's trivia.
It's interactive and they get sort of points as they answer it. I thought about starting that company, but I really think that that could work. I think it might also have the sort of fade in interest.
But I remember as a kid, I loved Brain Quest and I played all these like learning games and they were great. And so I think this is a modern day
SPEAKER_01
version. That's interesting. That is quite sticky.
I think that as we get older, I mean, your kids not old enough. So you'll, I imagine you'll learn this once she gets old enough. But these things that we use as we are kids, which is huge.
Yes. Huge. I'm into that. And you wouldn't
SPEAKER_00
need tens of millions of people because you're not advertising. You'd be on subscription because parents would be like, Oh, I don't have to go drop my kid off at tutoring. And I don't have to like learn this myself.
My kid already wants to sit in front of the iPad all day. So okay, here's an iPad game that I feel good about because you're learning. It's kind of cool because it's live and interactive and I could play with you and I'll pay three bucks a week for that.
Do you want to hear what I've
SPEAKER_01
said in that same category that I'll come back with some more research, but I was just surfing around and saw it is that but for allowance. Okay, tell me more. So a friend Ramon's kid had, I was like, I was like, Hey, Victor, does your dad give you allowance? Like he better be giving you some money, right? And he goes, Yeah, but it's all on this app.
And I was like, What do you mean? He's like, Well, it is automated and I get $10 a week if I do everything and I have a list of everything I got to do. And then it just sends me the $10, but it sends it into an account. And I could use those on the the places that he's already approved that I could spend it on.
Or if he wants, I can get this debit card that only works at a handful of places. That's a great idea. Yeah, I was like, Oh, of course, that's obviously that's an awesome course idea.
I can mad at myself for not thinking of it. So I'm going to go I haven't thought I haven't seen their financials or any I've done I'm going to yeah. When he told me that was like, Oh, okay, obviously great.
Right. What else we got? So on trends, we released this on Tuesday, two things were interesting that our guys found more stuff and our guys so men and women found which we only have two people so so your guy and gal found that two things. I'm like thinking about all of it.
First, everyone talks about meditation being like the most popular like being a huge trend right now. People searching for sleep is actually significantly more like sleep products and not and this it makes total sense because calm. I'm a subscriber to calm their stories, they're pushing sleep like
SPEAKER_00
crazy. Yeah, sleep stories, I think was the breakout product for the breakout feature for
SPEAKER_01
that's crazy. And so I didn't realize this until they like pointed out and I'm like, Oh, yeah, that does make sense. Sleep is way bigger than meditation and meditation is huge.
Sleep is also
SPEAKER_00
a lot of people search for it because so for meditation, you're trying to teach a new habit sleep. Everybody does also for sleep. A lot of people have problem sleeping.
So they will actively search for and pay for solutions that will help them sleep. I pay for a bunch of them. I pay for
SPEAKER_01
an Alexa app called Nature Sounds and they have like 26 sounds and I pay extra money to combine them. So my the one I sleep to is Winter Railroad. And so what does that sound like? It's a train
SPEAKER_00
going through the mountains in winter. What's the winter part? What is the sound of winter? You hear
SPEAKER_01
like wind. Okay. I love it. You shared something very personal there.
I love it. It's great. I go Alexa played Nature Sounds or sometimes I'll do ship in winter because it sounds like an ice breaker.
And then Alexa turn off in 20 minutes. And that's this is also like one of these,
SPEAKER_00
you know, hackathon projects or some developers like, Okay, watch this, just say two words. And I go search the internet for sounds and I smash them together and it makes an audio thing. Effercons next hackathon, they should build this like, I don't even know what it could be like
SPEAKER_01
chickens in China Street. What happens to Sarah? She doesn't like, does she like the same sound?
SPEAKER_00
She's down with it. She's down with it. So do you take any sleep aids like like a like a vitamin or supplement or CBD or something? Melatonin.
Melatonin. Yeah. Does that work? Help her?
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it does. If I really can't sleep, I'll take one of those. Do my computer die? I think it died.
One of my UNO UNO gel is that what it's called UNO soft? It's a it's basically like a mild dosage of Nyquil without the medicine part. Oh, that's good. So yeah, okay.
So it's the way some people
SPEAKER_00
take Nyquil just to sleep. And so this is the just to sleep part. It's just an eat.
I don't have a
SPEAKER_01
cough. Yeah, it's just a light version. You don't take that stuff.
I heard this phrase today. I could
SPEAKER_00
sleep in a ditch. So I just when I would decide to go to sleep, I instantly fall asleep. And I do not wake up at night ever.
And so I'm blessed. I am typically like that as well, but not as bad.
SPEAKER_01
There's this guy that we should profile. He he he's a Japanese billionaire or sorry, Chinese billionaire. And he started a so he's a big shot now and he owns like half a bank and all this other shit.
And he got rich by creating a melatonin. He just took melatonin rebranded it and made it sexy and called it a sleep aid and whatever. It got huge.
And then he launched the Zynga of China. And he ended up buying like the building that they lived in just like Zynga and or that they worked in and it became this huge thing we'll have to do off to bring him up because I love him because he's reckless and he's built a fortune and lost it all like three times. Right. Yeah, you love that. I love those guys.
Okay, and then we also talked about do it yourself perfume. So apparently, that's a huge community is do it yourself perfume and there's not a ton of
SPEAKER_00
companies in the space. So what's what's happening? What are these people trying to do? They don't
SPEAKER_01
want to buy perfume. They want to mix their own at home. Yeah. So basically perfume is a huge business. Paris Hilton.
A lot of people forget about her. She has sold roughly $5 billion of her
SPEAKER_00
perfume. Cycling back to the porn conversation earlier. Okay, Paris Hilton.
Yes. Yes. And
SPEAKER_01
let's say her stuff costs $100, which it doesn't. It's typically 90% margin. Yeah. Incredible. So huge fat margins and everyone now knows this.
And so the idea here is that people are trying to make their own perfume at home and it's got there's a lot of sub subreddits around a lot of communities who discuss different perfume, like how to create your own perfume, but there aren't too many companies that are making it easy to make your own perfume and formulas and things like
SPEAKER_00
that. That makes a lot of sense. This is like one of those industries where when you hear about the winner later, you're like, oh, okay, it was set up for success.
So for example, Warby Parker, you know, one of the reasons Warby Parker works so well was that the existing eyewear, eyeglass, you know, industry was all owned by this one conglomerate that had price pricing power and was marking shit up like crazy. So they didn't have to like invent something to lower the price. They just had to not be greedy and be like, okay, yeah, we can offer this at a fair price and still have margin.
And so you own Cologne. I own Cologne. And so what you're saying is basically Cologne vastly marked up in the same way razors are super marked up and Dollar Shave Club came in.
But instead of somebody just making a Dollar Shave Club version of Cologne, they're giving you a DIY kit and that these like probably Reddit communities of home brewers for perfume. Yeah, it's actually pretty great. There's an infinite number of recipes and
SPEAKER_01
scents. So you're gonna try a bunch is if you took it a step further, an interesting sense could be
SPEAKER_00
sold already. Yeah, so you could create a marketplace where you could sell yours. Just even to your own friends and family, you could create a kit for people to do this and make a better kit.
Sure, there's one that exists. Another idea that, you know, we were talking about kids stuff earlier, like my niece would love to mix her own perfume. She would that would be like a great afternoon.
And my my sister would buy her, you know, this little kid friendly perfume making kit. And it's like one of the arts and crafts things that she gets to do. And she makes it and everyone who comes over, she gets to show them show them there.
Yeah, I'm into that. I think you could do this for kids and it would be a big deal. Here's another
SPEAKER_01
angle that we found in trends is soap. Do yourself soap. Big thing.
People want to make their own soap. And what was the third one? Juice. But we already know that that's right.
Juicing. Yeah. Okay. So a topic that we talked about yesterday that you wanted me to look into more was auctions. Auctions.
Yes. I had never heard of this company that you showed me. Heritage auctions.
Yeah. I think that auctions, particularly marketplaces, I would love someone to criticize this because I want to hear the downsides. I think that they are potentially one of the top, like two or three business models.
Auctions. Or well, auctions and marketplaces. Well, marketplaces for sure.
Yeah. But auction style marketplaces. Right. I think they're one of the
SPEAKER_00
best. Yeah. You've seen a bunch of them. Yeah. I think they're a being the sort of classic. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
And I think eBay sucks, by the way. There's someone's totally going to crush them. I mean,
SPEAKER_00
they're going to be dead, not dead, but somebody told me this is half half half information. Somebody told me eBay has had like a revival and they don't do the auction stuff as much anymore. They're all like it's basically Amazon.
Yeah, I fucking hate it. I hate it. But somebody said that their numbers
SPEAKER_01
have turned around. I don't know if that's true. Well, they're a behemoth.
They're not going anywhere anytime soon. I mean, they're like Google. Like you're like, Oh, well, they're sucking like, okay, I mean, they're going to last another 50 years at least.
Yeah. So anyway, I love auctions. I like and I love niche auctions and heritage, which you pointed out, they do that.
You got the you got that pulled up Henry and you could pull it up on your phone. So they did $800 million in sales. So it's not on the screen.
So let's look at their top categories. Do you have it on your phone? Yeah, so I have it. So coins, I think was their top right? Yeah, so they do, I think, $300 million in currency.
Right. Okay, but look at some of the more interesting ones. Movie posters, 10 million, $10 million in sales.
What was comics? Comics is on there. Yeah, let me just pull it up. What's it say for comics, Henry? 50 million.
Comics 50. Sports 60 million. Sports 60 million.
Sport collectibles basically.
SPEAKER_00
300 million. Luxury real estate, 19 million. Wine, 10 million.
SPEAKER_01
Crazy, right? Tons. Crazy. And here's what I like about it. This is a big idea.
We talk a lot. In
SPEAKER_00
fact, I have a pet peeve. We talk a lot about these like small little business arbitrages, hacks, little businesses. This would be a big, big company if you could get this right.
And so what,
SPEAKER_01
so I love, I love marketplaces and I love auctions. I love auctions because there's a time component to it. Yeah. And that urgency makes you buy more. And what I think is even better.
And so for heritage auctions, I think roughly half of their sales of $800 million sales are online and the other half are in person. You want to know another in person auction that's doing wonderfully? Which one? Barrett Jackson. Have you heard of Barrett Jackson? No.
What is it? So Barrett Jackson is based in Arizona, bootstrapped. Don't buy one guy. Is that his name? Barrett.
Maybe. Barrett is dead. Jackson is alive.
Okay. Or it could be the other way around. One of them is dead.
But what they do is they actually have a, they put this on TV all the time. I watch it all the time. What they do is sell cars.
So classic cars. Right. Not all classic cars, but just like rare or like interesting cars. You could buy like a $10,000 car there.
But so they'll have a car on and they'll say like this Ferrari, there was only 500 of them. This, it sells for $200,000 and they showed it and you're like, Oh, awesome. That sale just happened in three minutes.
That was great. And so they'll, they do, I believe 68 shows a year and they make hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue. Yeah. It's a huge business. And I love that.
And so another one is bring a trailer. They do cars as well. And the guy who started bring a trailer also started Mailbox Gentry Underwood.
So he's like, which he sold to Dropbox. And so I like these auction places. And first of all, I like niche auctions.
So I like watches, anything that's niche. But what do you, what is another, and I have one an idea, idea. What's a current marketplace that's very illiquid and hard to sell and you wish that
SPEAKER_00
it could go way faster? Houses is one luxury house. They put on here because it takes a while to sell a house in general. And so Open Door is trying to make that instant as a market, as a real estate company, not as much as an auction.
I have a friend who did this with sneakers. He, people are doing that now. I think it's working well.
He did it as a 90 minute auction. So he would say the sneaker goes live, it's 90 minutes and we're going to get you your guaranteed price. Or they basically offer the seller.
They're like, we will buy it at this price if the auction doesn't go higher. So if you agree to that, you start the process and it's 90 minutes. What else? I don't know.
What else you got? Small businesses. Okay. Just flip my business. And this is a, maybe would just fall flat.
This
SPEAKER_01
is one of those. It could be amazing or it would just be a horribly idea. But if I were quiet like brokerage who sponsors this, or if I were another brokerage, I would 100% have an event and try to gather a thousand people.
And we're going to auction off these businesses.
SPEAKER_00
My idea from yesterday, the first dibs where you're auctioning the future first, future first, whatever you're going to create. I think that would work really well with this as well. But businesses, the hard part is you have- There's so many hard parts about it.
There's a lot of hard parts. But one is just the diligence, right? So like when I buy the the movie post or whatever, if it has sort of the certification and the person who's selling it sort of says, this is authentic, I don't need to look too much more into it. Whereas with a business, you really have to sort of understand all these different components.
I
SPEAKER_01
think that's hard. I agree. It's hard.
But I think it's interesting because if someone just, like if I knew Shopify apps or something and there was this gathering and they're just auctioning off a shit ton of them and it's kind of like a storage war where it's like, which you're not sure what you're going to get. But let's just find out. It could be fun to gamble
SPEAKER_00
tens of thousands of dollars. Yeah, just storage units. That would be interesting.
SPEAKER_01
Like a mystery box, basically, that you're buying. Well, fuck yeah, actually. That would be really
SPEAKER_00
fun and interesting. It'd have to be cheap enough. That's interesting.
Is someone doing
SPEAKER_01
storage unit like blind auctions? Yeah. Yeah, surely they have to be right. I don't know.
But
SPEAKER_00
you could tie some of these ideas together, right? So like what HQ showed where they did, basically they took a traditional TV show and turn it into a live streaming mobile app where the game shows on your phone. This is the future of TV. Like you can do a QVC or I don't know what show you talked about.
You watched the auctions on, but like, well, that's better, Jackson. But those are another one called the turn these into mobile live streamed shows. And you could essentially sell these all through, you know, you could take it.
So one way to look at this is that's what I was thinking about. Right. So one way to look at this is you start selling some item that's not currently sold on these auction places might be hard because a lot of time has passed and sort of like, you know, the law of supply demand has pulled things that want to be sold this way into the market. But maybe you can find a new niche or you just take the existing platforms and you make them smaller, more lightweight and mobile focused.
You just win that way. And so like, I don't know if you didn't know Top Hatter. Yeah, what are they top? How incredible company? It's Wish.
So it's a mobile app where you see a bunch of really cheap stuff from China, random stuff. It can be like a back brace and a ring and a, you know, whatever a poster, dollars, dollar store crap, dollar store. Well, it's like the it's like the wish crap, which is like random electronics and memory, laser pointer, laser pointers and class rings and like, you know, whatever.
But what they do is, which is interesting, is it's a, they item starts. So you open up the app and you see all these things and like, you've never seen your adrenaline spike like this in a mobile app before. All the prices are starting at like, whatever, $50 and they just start dropping.
And then somebody just hits buy and then they buy it. And so you kind of want to wait to get it lower, but you don't want to wait too long because somebody else is going to buy it. So Top Hatter is a startup here in San Francisco and they do hundreds of millions of dollars for revenue.
Very good, very interesting business. I don't know how profitable it is, how sticky it is, blah, blah, blah. But when you go into the app, it's like a, it's like being in like this high stakes Chinese market.
Is it like those dollar, like those penny auctions things? It's a little bit like, like, fuck it's a little bit like that, but they, but you don't have to buy credits and stuff like that. It's more like Wish. But instead of what they tap into is instead of browsing and picking, they pick, they, they like inject into your FOMO, you know, part of your brain.
And so you're like, okay, this item, do I want it? Do I want it for six bucks, five bucks, four bucks, three, I'll take it. And then you end up buying a whole bunch of shit. And it's just a bunch of moms who are bored at home that are just shopping on this thing.
And they feel like, Hey, we're getting tons of value. But like, this is stuff you didn't even know you want it. You don't even want.
This is shit. It's just shit. I'm going to download it and buy some
SPEAKER_01
stuff. I buy shit all the time. Top Hatter's cool.
We want to do one more or end it there.
SPEAKER_00
Let's do one quick one. So I have this career advice. So there's this great line.
I think Cheryl Sandberg said a while back, which was if you're offered a seat on a rocket ship, you don't ask which chair, you just sit down and buckle up something like that. That's her quote. And I see people get this wrong all the time.
And so you're making let's say you're listening to this and you're making career choices. So we talk a lot about businesses, business ideas, but a lot of people who are listening to this are not yet they haven't, you know, they have a job and they haven't yet started their own company necessarily. So when it comes to job selection, if you think about the companies, you're thinking about joining, I want you to classify them into cars, rocket ships or Titanic's.
And basically, you got the goal in your career advice is not to look at the role, you know, like what does the job description say? It's not even really to look at the compensation package. Although, you know, there should be a minimum there. But you want to optimize for getting onto rocket ships.
And so a rocket ship is a company that's growing really, really fast. They figured out what they're doing. And there's still a whole bunch of problems to be solved.
And they're the right type of problems. A bad problem is nobody wants our product, we have to figure out how to get them to want it. A good type of problem is too many people want our product, we have to make sure we can keep up with this demand.
And so you want to, you want to find a rocket ship and you want to take whatever roles you can get on that rocket ship, you want to sit down, you want to buckle up because what ends up happening in these fast growing companies is if you're good, and you kill it for even two months, you'll get moved and promoted to a better spot because they'll be like, Oh, this person can actually do something. We have so many fires to put out. Okay, we thought you were a junior, but like, Hey, junior, you're now working on this thing because you're the best we got.
And we I've seen you problem solve so far. And so what I'll the mistake people make is they try to pick a role that's a higher ranking role initially, or better competition initially, but they join either a slow moving company where they're not going to learn is not going to grow, or they join a Titanic, which is just, you know, about to sink. But hey, I got the best seat on the Titanic, you don't want that either.
And so my advice is, find the rocket ship companies, take whatever seat they'll give you crush it, and then they'll
SPEAKER_01
move you up. Great. I think that to add to that analogy. A lot of people shouldn't join that fast growing thing, or do they want that fast growing thing, but they want something that's mildly
SPEAKER_00
growing. Is that what that car is? Yeah, I think that's that's where, yeah, I'm speaking to the people that like someone that they're trying to max out, but they're currently in the job track. So if you're trying to max out, and you're not starting your own business, this is the next best thing
SPEAKER_01
in my opinion. Yes, like not a lot. Some people, a lot of people don't want to max out.
They have kids and they're like, I want a nice life. Right. I don't want to high risk, high reward life. Right. And to those people, that advice doesn't apply. Right. And I'm just guessing a lot of those people
SPEAKER_00
don't listen to the podcast, because if you're that person, you probably listen to like, I don't know, Bungovi and your way to work, you don't listen to like a podcast about business and ideas and all that stuff. Sure. I think we've self selected at least. I think that's good advice.
And by the way, when you, so have you had a job? Have you been employed? Let's say not like kind of like college age, but like since then, or have you just done businesses of your own?
SPEAKER_01
We had like an acquisition and I was kind of employed there, but I, but you haven't gone and just interviewed for jobs. I interviewed once a couple of times and I never got them. What'd you interview for? For Vungal for Jack Smith.
My best friend, I interviewed for his job and I didn't get it. What happened? They just didn't call me back. I started to call you back.
Jack didn't tell you? The guy who's like my best friend now, I didn't know him. I interviewed his job. Oh, you didn't know him at the time? I didn't know him.
Okay. They interviewed me and they didn't hire me. And then two years later, we became best friends.
And you were trying to be a sales
SPEAKER_00
person or what? I don't even remember. I think so. By the way, I have a similar story.
I applied to Stripe. I think I might have told the story already. So, apologize if I did, but 2012, I applied to, I was going to apply for a job for the first time in my life.
I had started two companies before that. I was like, I'm moving to Silicon Valley. I'm going to get a job.
I'm going to learn from other people rather than start my own thing. And I only applied to two jobs. One was Stripe and I got to the phone screen.
And I really had it made because the guy who was interviewing me, his mentor in life, was one of my former advisors in my startup and had written a blog post being like, this guy, Sean, is like, he said specifically, he has the highest bias for action of any entrepreneur I've ever met. He made a warm intro to this guy and was like, trust me, this guy's legit. You should hire this kid.
How the fuck did you not get that job? And so, I thought I was cruising too. And maybe that's why I didn't get it. But I get to the part of the interview where he was like, all right, you know, this job has a lot of sort of sales and persuasion stuff.
So, you know, we're a piece of software. So I want you to, you know, we're going to do a little roleplay. You're going to sell me a piece of software.
And he's like, you can pick any software you like,
SPEAKER_01
whatever you're familiar with. You probably got creative or something. And I was just like,
SPEAKER_00
I was like, okay, so I, here's what I would do. I would talk to you about this. He's like, no, no, no, don't tell me what you would do.
Like, I'm the customer. Hello. I just picked up the phone, go. And I was like, fuck.
And so I was like, hey, you know, I'm telling you about, I picked base camp as my software. Big mistake because I don't even know base camp very well. And so I just like, I just so they didn't call you back for that reason.
By the end of that roleplay, he was just like, yeah, I don't think this is for you. I'll just be honest with you. Like, I just don't think you're, you know, how old were you for this? That was eight years ago.
So I'm yeah, I was like, probably 23 or 24 at the time. How? Oh, fuck. How early I blew it.
Like, it wasn't there bad. Like, I definitely blew that interview. How early of an employee would you have been? So I think they were at like, maybe 50 people or less or 100 people less cost you $5 million.
Well, yeah, I don't know how much equity I would have, I would have had to do the rocket ship thing. I would have had to start in the crappy seat, crush it and then get into a good seat to get equity. But
SPEAKER_01
like, I did that with Uber and Airbnb. I had job interviews at Airbnb and Uber, early issues, first 100 people. And one of them I got one of them I got the offer, but then they rescinded it because I lied about my resume.
And the other one I didn't get past the final. I had a criminal record and I told him I didn't. Okay. So I moved all the way out here. I moved all the way out here.
They're like, Oh, all right. Don't come to work on Monday. Dude, that's hilarious.
At least you had a good eye for picking these companies. And then I applied at Vungal and they sold for $800 million. So I always tell people find out where I want to work at who will also deny me and then invest there.
SPEAKER_00
Okay, let's start with where would you want to work at today? If you were you back then,
SPEAKER_01
where would you be applying today? Great question. Do you have an answer? You want to go first?
SPEAKER_00
A couple years ago, I answered this. I was like the only place I would be really interested working was Angel List at the time. No, that'd be horrible.
That place to work. And so I thought Angel was doing really interesting shit and I think it's going to be big and it did end up becoming big. And this was like seven years ago.
So this is a while ago. Yeah, no, that would be
SPEAKER_01
a horrible place to work though, because that Naval guy is fucking crazy. Really? I live in Nepal. Well, I don't know.
But he seems like a brilliant genius. So a great person to listen to, but a horrible person to manage you. If okay, if I had to work somewhere, I probably probably just somewhere with really good managers.
Most startups have horrible managers.
SPEAKER_00
But like when you were looking at Uber Airbnb, you didn't know the managers. So
SPEAKER_01
you weren't using that criteria then? No, but and I don't know if it would have been successful. Sarah, my wife works at Airbnb and she loves her managers. And you know how everyone's like, so what are you going to do next? They always say that.
And she's like, what do you mean? Why would I ever do anything next? This is awesome. It'd be for a really long time. Right. And I would
SPEAKER_00
love to have that feeling. I would probably now look for a company that I would go find all the most interesting biotech based companies. So anybody doing something with genetics, genomics, modification, anything like that, I think that's a big wave that's coming.
I'd go try to be early there, self driving cars. If there's someone who's awesome there, I'd do something in that. Or it's hard though.
It's really hard. If I wanted to make a lot of money, let's say I
SPEAKER_01
wanted to like, all right, I'm going to try and save hundreds of thousands of dollars in the next three years of work. Just go work at Facebook or what? Facebook, Google or an enterprise sales role at a super boring B2B enterprise software company where the average deal is like $300,000 or $400,000 a year. That's what I would do.
So if I took my own advice, I would look for
SPEAKER_00
who's a rocket ship. So I would try to maybe like Lambda School, I think is interesting. I would just basically try to go find who's the fastest growing startup right now that's at maybe 50 people or 20 people or 10 people, whatever they are.
I would go try to find them and then I would be like, Hey, I'll come solve any problem you got. Like we'll figure it out.
SPEAKER_01
I went to the sub stack office the other day. They just raised $16 million in funding. You know how many employees they have? Five.
Five. I would, that would be an interesting place to work.
SPEAKER_00
Okay. Who does better in the long term, only fans or sub stack?
SPEAKER_01
Okay. So for creating the owner's wealth, only fans for creating a valuable company that could potentially sell for more, sub stack by far. So take both paths, right? Sometimes going to
SPEAKER_00
either have to sell or go public and only fans might just, you know, spit off cash. If I had a work, so where would I work? No, no, no. Which business do you think nets more, more money in the end, which business? Only fans, only fans.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
Because the likelihood that sub stack is going to succeed is low, but if they do it right,
SPEAKER_00
I think it could be really big. Yeah. I was talking to that guy Hamish, I think is he came to here the other day. Okay. Cool. I was trying to get him on this podcast. I already asked him.
He said no. Yeah. He was like, Oh, you know, my first million. I don't want to.
That's what he told me to shut up. Just come do it. Yeah. I was like, you're overthinking this, dude. You're just doing interesting things.
We just want to talk about your shit in front of a bunch of people who are interested. And he was like overthinking it a little bit. Nice guy, but I went and met with him
SPEAKER_01
and the old CEO, the CEO, we could probably get him on. They're just engineering dorks. They're
SPEAKER_00
cool. Right. And then I think they're going to have the same problem Patreon has, which is going to be an awesome product that supports a lot of people and people. It's a really valuable tool, but they're taking a very small cut up a very small amount of money.
Yeah. And so what I'm
SPEAKER_01
trying to do is tell them to pivot and like, guys, we'll pay you a fuck ton of money if you create
SPEAKER_00
paywalls for bigger companies. Right. They're not going to pivot. They've raised their money and they
SPEAKER_01
they have their dream. We're a few meetings in. We'll see.
Yeah. I think it's a 10% chance.
SPEAKER_00
10% chance. All right. That's pretty good.
Okay. Cool. What else we got? Anything else? Nope.
SPEAKER_01
We're cool. We'll end it now. All right.
Thank you for listening.