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SPEAKER_00
I feel like I can rule the world, I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it like the days are on the road, let's travel never looking back.
SPEAKER_01
All right, I wanna self promote. You should self promote too, cause you have a thing coming up, right? Or are you doing the writing? Or you're doing a different one. I don't know what I'm doing, you do yours.
Okay, I have to promote a couple things. One, Gaggen has been getting on me about talking about it. So I'm doing the ideation boot camp.
It's basically like my research course on how I research different business ideas. I'm doing it with Gaggen, this guy who started Younmia Multi-Billion Dollar Company. So if you're interested, go to maven.
com and you'll see my, it's maven, so M-A-V-E-N, maven.com and you'll see my face on there. And then, what else? Oh, this is kind of a funny thing to promote.
So June one to September 30th, I go and live in New York and I always rent out my house. So if you're interested in renting my house for that time, let me know.
SPEAKER_03
Also, I got a toothache. If anyone's a dentist who wants to come over and fix it. You don't have anything to promote? Not right now, but I do have like, I have been using this, I did this like, could do some work or like, maybe I'll just tweet out, does anybody know X? And like, it's really amazing the level of like quality of, like you will get to the answer if you just tweet out any question or anybody who knows somebody who does this.
Like once you get to a certain size, you have basically like a, like a genie lamp that you could just rub and they won't make it come true, but they'll definitely save you like a lot of time, either getting connected to somebody or finding out what's the answer to X, renting out your Airbnb, whatever it is.
SPEAKER_01
It's pretty cool. Dude, I'm taking my mom and dad to Europe to Paris and I tweeted out like, my whole vacation has been like, people saying, hey, I'll, I own a restaurant. I'll take you to it or whatever.
It is pretty awesome. Wow, famous. No, but I did.
I met a famous person this weekend. I went and saw Jimmy, is it Yang or Wang, the comedian?
SPEAKER_03
I think it's Oh Yang or something.
SPEAKER_01
Oh yeah. Well, it's Jimmy Oh, I forget his last name, but he's, what was his character in Silicon Valley? Jing Yang? Jing Yang, yeah. And he's a comedian and he was an awesome guy and my friend is dating him, Bree.
And, All right, funny in person or not? Yeah, he's awesome.
SPEAKER_03
He was awesome. Like comedian funny? Like you just talking to him or you like, were you like, wow, this person should be a comedian if they weren't?
SPEAKER_01
No, he was just really insightful and he had like really good, strong opinions and he told stories well. I mean, I think you could actually do it. If you were to sit down and write a bit, I actually think that you have the same traits, but no, he was just a really nice, thoughtful guy, but he was like legit famous to where everywhere we went, people would talk to him.
And it was pretty, pretty cool to see. And I imagined quite annoying for him because the people who are fans of him, cause he doesn't actually talk like that. You know, he's American, right? Right, right.
And,
SPEAKER_03
Not fans of him, they're fans of Jing Yang.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, well, they are fans of him, particularly the Asian community. They love him because, well, he's just like, he's like representing nicely. But basically they come up to like, like a white guy came up to him and kind of said something a little inappropriate.
And it was like rooted in like the Silicon Valley show. And like they think that he has an accent and things like that. And that's super annoying, particularly in Austin where there's tons of like white bros.
So I imagine that could be annoying, but he was legit famous and it was kind of cool to see.
SPEAKER_03
When you're around people who are like, you know, famous in their world, do you, how do you act? Do you like, do you go door A, treat them like a normal person? In fact, almost disregard their fame. B, nerd out about, you know, asking them a zillion questions about, you know, the show and what blah, blah, blah, like, you know, basically to ask them all the questions that they've probably heard before, but with enthusiasm or see something else.
SPEAKER_01
What do you do? Dude, so I do, I do B, but I do it in a very direct way, kind of like the podcast where it could tell that I'm like really confident, but I'm asking questions that everyone wants to know. So I'm like, so what's it like? Are you like kind of negging them? Yeah, yeah. So it's like, so what's it like? Here's a tiny example.
I've got a friend of a friend who had cancer and he lost his leg. And when I first saw him, I was like, what's going on, man? Are you crushing it at pull-ups? Cause you're lighter now? Like how many pounds did you lose off that leg? And he like really quickly opened up cause he was like, oh, you just got that out. You got it, we got it all the way.
SPEAKER_03
That's amazing. Like it's not here, but you're also not making a huge deal out of it.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that's like how I usually, when I'm with famous people, so I'm like, so what's it like? You're pretty famous. Is that cool or is it bad? Like just very direct.
And I typically find that it makes people lighten up and they, and they'll, and you, you are nagging them in a sense, but you're also like congratulating them and they really will just open up.
SPEAKER_03
You're like, you're better looking in person. I watched the show. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01
You're way taller than I thought. Yeah, you're not nearly as slight of build than I was expecting.
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, you're actually funny. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
I don't know. Yeah, it's like, you know, I don't care what people say.
SPEAKER_03
I think you're great. Dude, my brother-in-law has the best celebrity move. He, if he sees a celebrity, he greets them like a long lost friend.
So he'll see like, we saw Mike Tyson
SPEAKER_04
and he'll be like, Mike, what's up man? How you been? And he'll go, adapt them up and be like, but who's seeing you? And he'll just like keep going. And they're just like, do I know this guy? Where did I be like? He'd be like, George, yo, how's Houston? George, and then he'll like, just keep going.
SPEAKER_03
And like, just, he'll just make it seem like they are, they're just reconnecting rather than meeting for the first time. And I thought, what a hack. What an amazing hack.
Cause these people meet tons of people so they don't remember. And so they'll automatically go with your assumption that you like sort of know each other or you're equals in some way, peers in some way.
SPEAKER_01
You ever, have you ever been to a restaurant and the owner walks around just greeting people and asking how things are? Of course, yeah. That is, well, I had a friend that told me he used to pick up women that way where he was just like, I would approach this with the attitude. Like I wouldn't act like I was the owner, but in my head I would act like the owner.
SPEAKER_03
How's everyone doing here? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
And I had that energy and I was able to meet so many people with that energy.
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, that restaurant owner energy dude, that's so good.
SPEAKER_01
It's a good one. That's so good. And so I like at HustleCon, when we're hosted at HustleCon, or when you and I are hosting one of our events, like you kind of know everyone knows who you are.
And so you kind of know that you have the feeling where you can just walk up to talk to anyone and they'll know what's up. You have that energy when you're trying to meet girls and it's the best.
SPEAKER_03
Right, dude, that's so good. Like I'm just gonna start wearing like a small dish towel in my waist and go to restaurants. And then just walk around, just have a drink and just be walking around, greeting each table, making sure everything's going smoothly for them.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. And you're not lying, you're not telling anyone. I never said it.
SPEAKER_03
You assumed based on my big restaurant energy here.
SPEAKER_01
All right, bro, I got a few interesting things to run by you. You had a, did you have a lot left over from last time?
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I kind of did. Can I tell you about one? Yeah. I don't know, like business slash idea, this niche, that's like got my attention right now.
So I, did I talk about this the other day? I went to that, the Blippi show that I tell you about this? No. All right, so, so do you know who Blippi is? Have you ever heard of Blippi?
SPEAKER_01
I don't know what that is, no.
SPEAKER_03
All right, so like, remember like back then we had Barney or like, you know, like Pee Wee Herman or whatever these like, it's like, it's a dude. So he kind of looks like Pee Wee Herman or whatever, but he's more like a Barney or, you know, Sesame Street style show. So basically there's a guy who went on YouTube, created this brand called Blippi.
And he, he's entertaining. So he'd be like, oh, and by the way, the funny thing that he does is there's no like set. He just goes into like, hey, we're at the aquarium, but they just go in like after 9pm, it's like closed down.
And so it's just, they have it all to themselves. Like, hey, we're here in Las Vegas at this rock climbing studio. And so he just uses that to film this thing.
But he gives it a shout out at the beginning of the video. The video gets like 40 million views. So it's like, oh, you know, it's worth it to let these guys film there.
And he just like goes around and he'll basically just play with toys. He'd be like, I'm out of abandoned Chuck E. Cheese and he'll go play with a bunch of toys.
And there's like music and whatever, overlaid.
SPEAKER_01
And it's the same guy, I'm looking at him now. It's the same guy every single time.
SPEAKER_03
It is, except for as he blew up and got famous, then they switched him out with just a stunt double for a bit. And so like that guy's like a substitute teacher sometimes. And then sometimes when Blippi comes back, but like the main guy is the main guy.
He wears his outfits, like this blue outfit with his orange glasses. He like always looks the same. So anyways, my daughter loved Blippi.
We used to watch a ton of Blippi. And all of a sudden we see this ad that says, Blippi, like the live show is coming to Oakland. And so we were like, oh, shit.
And so instantly my wife buys tickets for all of us in the family. We go to this thing last weekend. And it's at the same place you did HustleCon.
So it's at the Paramount Theater. And it is packed. Like, you know, HustleCon was like, you know, sold out-ish.
This was like sold out, sold out. Like all the, even the back shitty seat is like sold out. And it's full of parents and their kids.
And then they just like, they basically just created like a little play, like a little mini musical one hour because kids don't have that long of an attention span. And it's just kind of like music and like, you know, lights and colors.
SPEAKER_02
And he's, oh, dinosaurs, oh, rocks.
SPEAKER_03
Oh, how much did it cost? So every ticket I want to say was- That venue seats- Maybe like 60 bucks a seat, something like that.
SPEAKER_01
So that venue seats between 2,500 and 3,000, I believe.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah. So I think there was 2,000 there. And I believe the tickets were something like, something like 50, 60, 70 bucks, something like that.
SPEAKER_01
So we're in like 120,000.
SPEAKER_03
And then he played four shows in a row that weekend. And then he went to the next city. So it was like, no, he had done eight shows or he was doing something like that.
So it was like some crazy like thing where I was like, oh wow, this weekend they made whatever, 800 grand. And yeah, the tickets basically range from like 60 bucks to 90 bucks. And the place is lit, by the way.
So like, you know, he comes on stage, kids go crazy. He's like, you know, he'd be like, you know, what does the bubble do? And everyone's like, pop. And he's like, when I say pop, can you say pop? And like, so it's like not like a quiet show, like, because kids are loud anyways.
So some kids are just not paying attention. Half, like my daughter during intermission was like, I want to watch Blippi on YouTube. And so we like had to open up YouTube on our phone and give it to her during intermission because she couldn't like go five minutes without stimulation.
And so it's, and then they have like the merch and the, like the concessions. They have like all that shit, right? So it's like pretty dope actually. And I was like, wow, this is kind of genius.
They just took YouTube IP. And this guy who was there was not Blippi. The guy on stage was just some, you know, theater kid who like didn't make it.
SPEAKER_04
And he's like, all right, plan B, I'll be Blippi.
SPEAKER_03
And so it was like, they took the IP but they made their own show out of it. And so I started looking into this and there's a company that does this called V-Star Entertainment. Awesome.
So V-Star, what they do is they go license these kids' brands and then they put on kids' Broadway basically and they tour around the country. Awesome.
SPEAKER_01
And so... And Blippi's just a guy with a guitar, right? Or was there more instruments? No guitar.
SPEAKER_03
He just, just him. He just walked around.
SPEAKER_01
So were there any instruments or was it just like a soundtrack?
SPEAKER_03
Just soundtrack and like lights and like stage props. So like, yeah.
SPEAKER_01
So he only had like his crew.
SPEAKER_03
Like, you know, if they came out as sharks, like a bunch of like little backup dancers came out as sharks and then they would have like... That's awesome. So many theater show, right? And so V-Star Entertainment, they do another brand that you've probably heard of, or you may have heard of called Paw Patrol, it's basically another kids' cartoon.
So guess how much, this is my like kind of triangulation. Guess how much they sold in Paw Patrol tickets last year? Just take a guess. 20? 20 million? $40 million.
$40 million in event tickets? In event tickets for, and that's just the tickets, not the merch.
SPEAKER_01
And that was just last year in 22?
SPEAKER_03
I don't know. It's like, this is like the just before COVID numbers. So like, I don't know, 2019, 2020, something like that.
Wow. So, like, we have a lot of people who got bought by Cirque du Soleil. So first, so the backstory is some guy decides, oh, you know what? Like, he's watching Sesame Street.
He's like, Sesame Street should do a live show. And he goes and he basically raises 500 grand from this guy. He mortgages his house, gets an extra 25 grand out of his home equity.
So he's got $525,000. And he goes and he gets the license to Sesame Street. And he started with the Sesame Street show, and then Muppets and like, you know, he did a couple.
But that must have been years ago. This was in like 1980, something like that. And then this other guy was doing it.
They merged and that whole thing gets bought by Cirque du Soleil last year. Is it Cirque du Soleil? By the way, like, guess how much Cirque du Soleil revenue was? Have you ever been to a Cirque show?
SPEAKER_01
No, I've not. But I do know that the guy who started it is a Canadian guy. He's a billionaire.
I read Dan Blazarian's book and they talk about that guy a lot. I think he's like, I mean, he started Cirque. So he's like, yeah, he's really eccentric and wild and everything.
So it made him a billionaire. How much revenue does it make?
SPEAKER_03
Ben, have you been to a Cirque du Soleil show? Cirque du Soleil did a billion, does a billion dollars a year in revenue, which is insane. 10%, a five or 10% of all Las Vegas tourists go to a Cirque show when they're in town.
SPEAKER_01
Is that what, what's that at Cirque? Is that the, is that like the name?
SPEAKER_03
They have like 10 shows, right? It'll be like, oh, and then they have zoom vanity. They have like whatever.
SPEAKER_01
And the Beatles. Yeah, I know all about it. And I'm into it.
And it's publicly traded, or at least it was before it was acquired by private equity, right?
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, private equity owns it now. And it's a pretty bad asbestos. The idea was do a circus, but no animals.
So it was like only human performers. And to do that, they did like crazy acrobats and like great costumes.
SPEAKER_01
It's basically its own genre at this point though.
SPEAKER_03
Right. And so he built that thing into a real juggernaut. And so Cirque then bought Blue Man Group and V-Star Entertainment.
And so they got Blue Man, which is like, what they had said was like, we do 10 million in ticket sales a year for Cirque du Soleil. Blue Man adds another 2 million. And then V-Star adds another 2 million.
But they're all like different ticket prices. But like they do 14 million in tickets sold per year. And so this like live entertainment thing really has caught my attention because I think as the world moves more and more digital, the demand for like these one-off experience is like, hey, let's get out of the house and go do something.
I think it's just gonna keep going up. Music festivals, that's a winner. And then there's like, I think plays and musicals are gonna be a winner.
I think they're gonna be bigger than they were before even though the world moves digital. And in fact, because the world moves digital, what do you think about all this?
SPEAKER_01
I 100% agree. And so earlier today, I sent you a Notion doc of some of my notes on, I'm interested in peer businesses, which is basically like you pay money and you're part of a club and you meet up with them. And I can't talk too much about what the name is of the companies were, but they were doing like, one of them does 100 million a year in profit.
And it's basically two or three meetups a year and there's executives paying $50,000 a year to be part of them. And I think actually these are gonna completely boom. I think conferences right now are interesting, but those are really hard.
This actually seems way easier to pull off. All types of meetups, Airbnb's, I'm 100% on board that I think that in person is the move.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah. And I think that, so then I started thinking like, what are the other opportunities? And so I think A, you could just like go compete with these guys on like either the same brands or the other brands. So like what they did was the V-Star guy took TV IP, turned it into a live show.
The blipping guy is doing is taking YouTube IP and turning it into a live show. And I think you could just even do this for more. So like, I think you could even do like, we've talked about religion, which is the greatest free IP in the world.
So I think if somebody could do this for religion, which would make it extremely kid friendly, in fact, kid focused, like Christianity show basically, I think you could do this for dinosaurs or science as a generic genre, because like, if kids love trucks and dinosaurs or whatever, and you could just basically create the like, the show, you know, day with dinosaurs or something like that. And at once you get like, if you have a certain level of quality, moms will spread this and they will talk about it. And they will like, in their mommy groups, they will help you sell these tickets.
And I just feel like there's a, like, it's not that hard. Like you build one show, and then you sell that one show a thousand times, right? Like the show goes on tour. Mama Mia has made like, I don't know, some stupid amount of money, just being the same show on tour with replacing the low cost actors.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and while we're talking, I'm trying to find the numbers. So we used to, so we did events, but we would do like these, this thing called Hustlecom, which was like our big one, where like thousands of people would come. But then we do this thing called 2X.
And 2X was basically from like 7pm to like 10pm. And it was basically, we got 15 or 10 women, all who were in tech and business, not that many of them were like well known, but they would have 10 minutes to like tell a story. And we would charge like $25, but then we would get tens of thousands of dollars in sponsors.
But we got to the point where we could pull this off, like kind of like almost weekly in other cities. And when we started doing this, the hustle wasn't that popular, but we were making like, I think like 30 grand a night when we were doing it. And we had one employee running it.
And she would use a team of contractors. And then we wouldn't supply anything. Like I think we had free wine, but I don't know, I don't even think it was free.
I like we wouldn't supply anything. But then when we have corporate sponsors and we crushed it, and in my head I'm like, I can always fall back on this to make a living because it was so much easier than people thought.
SPEAKER_03
Well, that's pretty good for a tech bro, a tech bro business. Like you were running one of the best like women's entrepreneurship events. Yeah, because you got labeled wrong, dude.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. I'm like an onion man, there's layers. So, but basically like, we used to do this thing called pizza in 40s where we would do a meetup and I would interview someone and they would drink a 40 ounce.
And when the 40 ounce beer was done, the talk was done. But then like women were like, this is like, there's all dudes here. And so we created like a wine version.
And that had like way better. It was like called like cheese and wine. I don't even remember.
But that had way better engagement. And so we're like, oh, like let's pursue this vein. Like there's clearly an opportunity here.
And so we created two X, which comes, it's like two X chromosomes, which I thought was clever. I stole it from Reddit. But anyway, we would do, I think we did 10 or 12 in one year.
And every single time it was like 20 and 30 grand. And the cost, the cost was nothing. The cost was renting the venue, which costs like $3,000.
And we would make like 20 grand.
SPEAKER_03
And you also, you had readers in every city, right? So that's how you sold the tickets.
SPEAKER_01
Is that? Yeah, but we weren't, basically the speakers sold the tickets. The reason why we had 15 speakers was I was like, I bet each 15 will get 25 people to come. Plus our like little bit of our engine, like this is easy.
SPEAKER_03
Engine weren't making the money off the tickets. You're making it off the sponsors really anyway.
SPEAKER_01
The tickets, the business model was the tickets paid for the event. And then the conference was all, or the sponsors were all the profit. But when it's, there's two things going on.
One, like women. So whenever you have like an underserved community, like sponsors definitely are willing to pay more. And two, it was like a B2B component.
So it wasn't kids component, which I think would alter the economics. But my point of it is that I think that it was far easier than people thought. And it was way more rudimentary and raw than people thought.
And it worked. We just used Splash that. I think if you Google like 2X the hustle, you'll like see like the Splash that is basically a Ventbright.
It was nothing special. And it freaking worked.
SPEAKER_03
That's dope. All right. What else we got?
SPEAKER_01
All right. Everyone, today's episode is brought to you by Imperfect Action, hosted by Steph Taylor. It's a podcast on HubSpot's podcast network, the audio destination for business professionals.
Imperfect Action is a bite-sized online marketing podcast for business owners. So join Steph Taylor as she answers all your business marketing questions and deep dives into the nitty gritty of online marketing, content marketing, social media marketing and marketing for strategy for business owners. A few recent episodes include some of the biggest mistakes you can make with your launch.
Another one is why growing your audience feels so hard in 2022. And another one is five ways to make content creation less consuming. So check it out.
It's called Imperfect Action. You can look it up wherever you get your podcasts. All right.
Let me, I just got kicked out of the document. All right. I got it.
So one thing, tell me what you think about this. One thing that I've been doing as I'm now starting to like get back into the game or thinking about it. So I've been setting up calls with bankers.
So bankers, which I didn't even know what those were. Bankers, when someone's, when like Sarah, my wife went to Penn.
SPEAKER_00
Worked at a bank.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. And she, and like, I would always make her friends were like, yeah, like I, you know, I'm a banker. I work at a bank.
I'm like, oh, which branch? And so bankers are basically people who help people sell companies and help people buy companies. And when you sell a company for like anything north to probably 50 million, they likely have a banker. And I've been contacting bankers and my pitch to them is this.
Hey, I'm thinking about starting a company in this space. You've sold a few companies in this space. Tell me everything about why the, this company was bought as well as what the opportunities are that the buyer, what they were looking for.
And maybe in five or 10 years, I'll let you sell my company. And I've been able to line up meetings doing this.
SPEAKER_03
And it's genius. And I've been a part of one or two of those types of conversations. And I was like, oh, wow, these guys are like vaults filled with gold.
Why don't they do so much? Bankers need podcasts. Like, why are they, why are these guys not talking? Well, they can't. So much info.
No, but they can talk like generally speaking, they don't, they can't talk about any specific deal, but like, they know a lot, dude. And they actually know everything. It's like your, your accountant.
It's like accountants and bankers.
SPEAKER_01
They know everything. Yeah. They know everything. And they've been telling me so much information.
So I like, they'll like basically they'll say, here's why this company was doing well. Here's why it was succeeding. Here's why they bought it.
And I'm like, all right, great. What, what other companies was that buyer trying to buy and why? And they're like, well, they always struggled with blank. And I'm like, boom, thank you.
And then I'll say like, you sold three businesses in the same space, which one was more fun to run? And so like, for example, I'll give you, I'll give you a concrete example. The business that I'm interested in now, we've talked about a bunch. It's like a Vistage, so, which is basically a peer group.
So companies that it's like a group of 10 or 40 people who all have a similar job title and they meet together and they discuss their problems. And it's like a safe space to discuss shit you can't talk about on the internet. And some of them do huge.
One of them, I can't say which does over 100 million in profit a year. And they're just like meetups in real life. And I'll just be like, well, what job titles was Gartner or whoever buys these companies? What job titles are they trying to get to? And they're really struggling to, to reach.
And they'll just tell me, I'm like, oh, great, I can create a community around that. And I think I could build it to sell it, which what I want to know from your perspective, is that even a good plan, building to sell? So part of me is like, yes, it's clear path to make money. I know the part is like, it's kind of lame though.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah. Well, I think where you're at now, let's take three, three options. Build to sell.
Which is basically optimizing for like, oh, is there a sort of like a flip? Is there a buyer on the other side of a business like this? Another one is build to win, which is basically like, for example, when I talk to these bankers, what I'm trying to figure out is, which of these businesses is not a special snowflake? Where it's like, oh, that's actually like a rinse and repeatable model. Like I didn't, that founder didn't catch lightning in a bottle at the perfect time and it's their perfect background and they got really lucky about this one thing. It's like, oh, those I don't want to emulate.
I want to emulate the one where it's like, I think somebody could start that same business today and do equally well or do just as well in this one adjacent space. And like, you don't need to be a genius with that. And so that's the second part of it, which is like build to win.
It's like optimizing for something that's going to work. And then there's the last one, which is sort of like, you know, build for fun or build for mission, which is like, go for something that like you, something you would never want to sell that you're willing to do even if it's low likelihood of success. I think we all know the answer is to do that bucket, right? Like I think the question is like, how many, how much security do you need before you go do the thing you know you should do?
SPEAKER_01
Well, or it could be a combination of all three. Like it could be like you enjoy winning or you enjoy this space and you want to make it successful. But there's a great clip from you and what's free? What's what's all in David Friedberg? There's a great clip that I shared that you and him had where he basically said that founders always sell themselves short and they go for these small ideas because because they think it's more reasonable.
But when doing that, they kind of screwed themselves because it's actually easier sometimes to do much of grander, bigger ideas because that attracts the crazy types of people who you want to work with. You know, you're in track.
SPEAKER_03
Competitive because nobody else, not every Joe is going to try to do it like, you know, going and trying to, you know, start a railroad business or whatever versus an FBA business. It's like, oh, they're both going to take all your time. So that's equal money.
Well, you're going to go have to go raise money from investors. One will let you just raise. You're still going to get the money you need from investors.
Just one, you may be raised more at a higher valuation and the other one you'll raise less at a lower valuation, right? Like. But did you agree? Do you agree with him? I do agree with him. And I've thought this for a very long time.
I remember back in the day, you ever hear about this thing called the Unreasonable Institute? I don't even think this is around anymore. That's a great name. It's sort of like the same guys who did summit.
It's not actually the same guys, but it's the same. It was like the same idea. It was like the Unreasonable Institute was basically this like it was based on this one word, unreasonable in the way that the hustle is built on this one word hustle and trans is built on one word, trends.
And so the unreasonable is it was exactly that. It was like it's going to take unreasonable people to do unreasonable things for the world to move forward. And it was like very inspiring.
And then they met with all bunch of people, you know, a bunch of people who did that, the sort of Elon Musk types who went and did unreasonable things. And then you start to look at it and you're like, you know, all things equal, you know, I guess like your inputs are sort of the same. It's just your time and energy.
And then like the outputs can be very, very different because
SPEAKER_01
the inputs. The inputs aren't the same. Because it is possible to build something pretty cool and not work that hard, but it's kind of impossible to build something huge and not work very hard.
SPEAKER_03
All right. Who do we know? And let's do real examples. I'm not saying it's not true, but who do we know that's building successful, awesome businesses without working too hard?
SPEAKER_01
Well, how about Suley? I actually don't know. What's his schedule? Does he grind constantly? He works hard. Yes. He works hard. So then no one, you don't, we don't know anyone, but you and me,
SPEAKER_03
like maybe I'll give you one nuance on it. He got there faster than the normal person. So it looked like it came easier, but that's just because he was better.
It wasn't because he worked like he wasn't putting in a tenth of the hours. He was putting in the same number of hours and getting there 10
SPEAKER_01
times faster, which is I just think that like there's a world where you have business a and it doesn't grow nearly as fast and you're working 40 hours a week and then you have business B that's growing significantly faster and you have to work 100 hours a week. Like that, that is a reality. Yes, that's true.
That's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about like very little. I'm talking about normal versus not normal.
SPEAKER_03
There's also things like this podcast or like people who have like newsletters or blogs or something like that where it's like, are they teaching a course? It's like, you know, like, like let's take your buddy Neville, right? So Neville, I don't think you and me. Well, but I'm doing multiple things, right? So it's like on each one, I'm not putting in as much time, but like overall I'm working harder. And if I didn't do those other things, that one thing would just expand in time.
I would just do more. I would spend a little more time.
SPEAKER_01
How often are you working now a day? Normal work hours?
SPEAKER_03
Not normal hours, but I work like a the equivalent of eight hours a day. Got it. Just not all to you. Not all continuously.
All right. But back to what was the original point? So my point was like, is it is this really true that you can kind of like chill and win? And like, no, I didn't mean to chill.
SPEAKER_01
I mean, chill less or sorry, chill more, work less. Bro, if you agree with Friedberg, which I think I do, why are you not going after like one big grand thing? Like I started a newsletter. That's not exactly like, you know, that's not like world changing entirely.
It's neat. But I would put it on a six out of ten in terms of like maybe a five in terms of like big ideas.
SPEAKER_03
Right. Yeah, I agree with you. The reason why is because to me, it's not a bigness contest.
It's a do I have a clear picture of what I want to like my life to be? And then can I like, do I have a crystal clear picture? And then can I make that happen? And it's like knowing what I want and then getting what I want. And so what I wanted was not to work the hundred hours, right? Even though I even though I agree like, that's cool, it's fun. And if I did do it, I do think there's all these extra benefits.
You would get amazing talent to come join you. You'd make a bunch of money. You'd have a bunch of fun.
Like there's there's great benefits if I did the big one, the big, big, big one. But I decided that like what I wanted. You wanted.
Yeah. Yeah, what I wanted more was more like the 40 hour a week, but hours spent on doing these types of things. Like I love teaching.
Teaching is not the most. It's not the most like world changing, unreasonable, institute style, you know, like let's go land a rocket on Mars type of idea. But I have the most fun doing it.
So I'm just optimizing for like a different thing rather than a bigness. I'm optimizing for like, you know, my own enjoyment. And so that's why I'm not going after that.
So I need things that are sufficiently interesting so that I'm interested and big enough so I don't feel like I'm wasting my time. But like it's not maximally big.
SPEAKER_01
Right. I feel you. Well, to wrap up the bank thing, I think it's it was it's been kind of interesting.
I'm going to continue doing it. Maybe I'll I didn't ask these people who I spoke with today if I could talk about what we discussed, so I'm not going to break it up, but very useful. I sent you the notes.
They were cool.
SPEAKER_03
They're great. And also this technique, whether it's a specific technique or a similar technique, it's like there are people who just know a lot of things, you know, people who invest other people's money, accountants, bankers, people like VCs are like this. They see they see hundreds and hundreds of businesses a year.
And so it's like those people, if you want to like speed dial your learning, you can go to them and you can get basically free learning off of off of them.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I agree. What do you what topic you want to go to?
SPEAKER_03
Let's do OK. This idea is called Milo again. What is Milo? So Milo is a company that got started back in the day that a guy who came on the pod, Jack Abraham, started.
Yeah. And what Milo did was a very simple thing. Milo said, if you if you said, oh, I need to go buy Scotch tape, it would say you would just type it.
It was a search engine for finding where you can go by a specific product in person. So you'd be like, I want to buy, you know, whatever, like, whatever, Phillips razor or something like that. You just type it in and it would be like it's in stock at this target near you.
So it took where you are. And then it knew all the stores inventory. And it just told you if the products in stock right there and like there's like the world is moving towards e-commerce.
Yes. But there's still like a very healthy way to go. They have a very healthy slice of people that go shopping real stores and or they want something now, today, and they don't want to wait for it to be delivered and in an X amount of time.
And so this idea of Milo, Milo got bought by eBay for like 75 million
SPEAKER_01
after like a couple of years.
SPEAKER_03
And then it kind of like, you know, like many acquisitions have just sort of faded away and disappeared inside of eBay. But this idea is still a great idea.
SPEAKER_01
Dude, I completely agree, man. I tried buying something the other day, like some chairs or something. And I had to go to like eight different like Home Depot dot com, TractorSupply dot com, Lowe's dot com, Walmart dot com.
SPEAKER_04
Even when you go, you're seeing the generic thing.
SPEAKER_03
You're not seeing like you're seeing like those Home Depot carry this. OK, yeah. Now let's go to store locator.
Type in my thing. It sucks. And then I go to each one and do that.
And it's like, it sucks. I completely agree. I needed kids cough medicine.
And I was like, dude, I should know. Do you have kids Robotessam or not?
SPEAKER_01
And then like usually like CVS or Home Depot or ever, they you type something in and they're like, this is it near you. And it's like, oh, well, because up here, it says my zip code is like, you know, eight hours away when I was on vacation, you don't have an easy way where it's just like searching. You know what I mean? It's a completely agree.
It takes forever. And I was trying to do this the other day. It's a pain in the back pain in the ass.
I was using Google shopping, but it's not easy.
SPEAKER_03
Exactly. And I know it's also hard to build, right? Because you have to have like real time inventory of physical stores.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but that's not that hard. If you go to Target and ask for like a vacuum, they go to target dot com and like type in like that vacuum to figure out where it is in the store.
SPEAKER_03
Right. So it's in some system. So you would need to build like integrations with like the major back end inventory systems in order to be able to do this.
And you have a really strong reason why they should give you that access. It's like, hey, dude, I'm going to send you a customer. I'm going to send you foot traffic to your store.
Like, is there anything a store wants more than foot traffic to the store? I don't think so. So, you know, like to me, Milo is an idea. And by the way, this just general thing, which is companies that go get it, that get acquired and then like kind of like dissolve in the big company.
Just go restart those companies like three years later.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I actually think that's a really fantastic idea. That's one of so that business model. I have said that I hate the advertising business model.
I don't entirely hate it, but I do hate that when you're a publisher and you have to say stuff that you don't really want to because of an advertiser. But it's I don't love that model, but I love non-publishing business advertising models because it's the perfect alignment. So basically with Milo, you have a site that gets lots of traffic and then you allow someone to pay money for a per click or a per view basis.
And it's very fair. It's the easiest sales process, I think I'm all about that.
SPEAKER_03
Right. OK, I got some more random ideas. This is these ideas, by the way, they're a little bit more like the tipsy, the drunk ideas.
The so this might be another drunk idea segment. I might have to take a fake shot here and we might do drunk ideas because these are these are, you know, very, very loose. No. Oh, Milo again. Is that right? Good bad ideas are bad ideas, but they're the good version.
I'm giving you a good bad idea.
SPEAKER_01
Did have you ever asked? Did you ever ask that guy, Jack? Well, if you could we could just email him and be like, is this cool? Was it with this work again?
SPEAKER_03
Oh, no, I didn't ask. Yeah, we should ask him. We'll see what he says.
But also, the people should know this when a founder goes into a space, they can tell you a lot of things about it, but they have so much scar tissue about that space that they will always tell you like nine times out of 10. I should say the nine times out of 10. They're going to tell you don't do it because they have trauma.
And like you shouldn't necessarily listen to the don't do it. You should listen to all the reasons why they say don't do it and then assess are they still true or do I have a compelling reason why those are no longer true? But yeah, we should we should ask. All right.
So here's my here's drunk idea number two. You take Zoom calls, right? What's the experience like? OK, let's say you had a meeting with me before the era of Zoom. We were meeting in person.
You come to my office for a meeting. What's that experience like while you're waiting for that meeting? And just in three minutes before the meeting, what do you get?
SPEAKER_01
So lately, nothing. But I recently did something where they had an ad on Zoom. And I thought that was intriguing.
SPEAKER_03
No, no, no, in real life, what do you get? What's the best version of a real life before your meeting? You show up at the building, you've done water. Yeah, water in this New York, bougie places. You've been there with.
Someone attractive, greet you. They ask you if you need anything to drink, to give you the drink that you have a seat. You look around, they got art everywhere.
SPEAKER_02
You start to feel like, wow, this company's pretty cool, huh? Like, yeah, I was looking at that. They got that wall over there with all the like cool, you know, little hand.
SPEAKER_01
That's funny. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03
You know, like I went to one the other day, the bathroom sign of, by the way, there's another drunk idea, but this coming next coming next drunk idea. The bathroom sign of this thing was it didn't say men. It said Batman and they had like a cape on the guy.
That's pretty hilarious.
SPEAKER_04
And I was like, these guys, they like to have a good time. These guys got a great sense of humor.
SPEAKER_03
So I got all this all this information, all this persuasion before I even went into the meeting, which where which office is this? I can't say. But we but Zoom needs this. Zoom needs a waiting room experience.
This is a feature for some product manager at Zoom. We need a dope waiting room experience or even even it can be built off to Zoom, right? There's like whatever, a trillion Zoom calls a day. Give me a dope waiting room where I can send somebody that's connected to the Zoom call and then when they're ready, they can come in.
But before that, they get a branded. They get a branded experience, a virtual office, a virtual vibe of who they're dealing with, what that person's all about and create a little, a little website, a little website space for them to to hang out and have some fun, have a drink,
SPEAKER_01
enjoy yourselves. I did this call with a company. I forget what they're making.
Maybe they're making a game. And I logged in and I was like a little bit early and they had like a teaser video, like a one minute long teaser video. And because they were the host of the Zoom, it automatically played.
And so when I got to have the meeting, I was like, pretty psyched up. Yeah, I was psyched up. It was awesome.
It was really cool. And it almost felt like they were like, but I was like, is this what is this new feature? Is this was that an ad that you paid Zoom to play? And they're like, no, they have this new feature where they allow you to show like an amp of like a video prior to the meeting starting. And it was really cool.
But dude, how about the fact that Zoom has been we've been in a pandemic for three or two years and it's like the same shit over and over and over again.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah. No features and the stock cut in half. What's going on? Yeah, this is not good.
I'm more mad about one of those than the other. I'll let them figure out which one is actually bothering me.
SPEAKER_01
And there's so many people that go to that landing page where it says like click here to open up Zoom. And it's just a blank.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it's a blank page. There's so much real estate there. I get there when I've already clicked a zoom link.
Guess what? I do want to open Zoom. You didn't have to re ask me.
SPEAKER_01
Dude, I just means yes. Zoom on similar web. Zoom.com gets one point seven billion visits a month. And it's the 26th most popular website in the world.
And that page is just this blank page. I cannot believe that they can make maybe hundreds of millions of dollars a year just in like an ad.
SPEAKER_03
It's just like a new Batman movie needs to play like a 15 second trailer to everybody today. It's what needs to happen.
SPEAKER_01
For real, I do think that that's like so much wasted space.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I'm more in the meeting room, the waiting room bucket. I want you to be able to like say something about who you are by showing what you know, you could decorate it. You could put your little drinks there, a little interactive thing.
You could play Jenga. You can do whatever you want, right? Like make it make it cool. All right.
So that's one idea. The second one is what I teased a second ago. It's called I don't have a personality.
Give me one or I'm not funny. Make me funny. It's a it's a store like Spencer's back in the day.
Remember Spencer's or what?
SPEAKER_01
I just went to Hot Topic. I just went to one the other day. Yeah, it's awesome.
All right, that's the best. That's the actual joke. For me and Sarah, we had like a date night on Friday and we're like, you want to go walk around the mall and go to the food court? So we did.
SPEAKER_03
And it was awesome. It was awesome.
SPEAKER_01
It was awesome, man. It was so much fun. So Spencer's is still a thing.
Yes. And Hot Topic. We went to both of them.
And this shirt that I'm wearing, I bought it from Abercrombie. Dude, Abercrombie's cool right now.
SPEAKER_04
I believe you. I believe you.
SPEAKER_03
So my idea is it's the B2B version of Spencer's. So it's just shit for you to put around the office. That's going to make your office more fun and interesting.
SPEAKER_01
I think we should workshop that name a little bit, though. What was your name? I don't have a personality.
SPEAKER_03
Please give me one. Yeah. Maybe there's an acronym in there. We can.
Yeah, like we want like it needs to be a word that's like Botox, but it's for injecting personality into your company instead of like filler into your lips. So so basically what this is Botox for your company. What it's going to do is it takes all the common items of a office of any office.
So bathroom door plaque, you know, the bathroom door signs, the exit sign, the emergency exit sign, meeting room things, little trash keys on the table for meetings, you know, like your welcome desk sign in Matt and and and like little bell. You know, like it's just all items like that. And then it'll make you seem like the fun, interesting version of your company because we just have them.
We take the common and we do it uncommonly.
SPEAKER_01
And that's what we do here. We have this exit sign. Do you remember this? We had this exit sign at the dojo where over the exit side, someone wrote IPO because that was that was the goal.
The goal exit was an IPO. So we had an IPO sign instead of an exit sign. It was pretty awesome, but I completely agree.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, like the toilet paper opportunity, opportunity in that toilet paper role. There's an opportunity in the bathroom mirrors. There's opportunity everywhere in your office to demonstrate a little personality.
SPEAKER_01
One time when I went to VaynerMedia, they had Vayner branded bottles of water. It was awesome. And I still remember it.
It stuck out. Have you been to a company that has a head of their own branded bottles? Well, it was just.
SPEAKER_03
No, but I also I don't feel like I would have thought that was awesome. Why do you think that was so awesome? Was the label like just look amazing or something?
SPEAKER_01
I just it was weird. I thought it was cool. It was quirky.
It stood out. It was just a bot. I mean, it was just a normal cheap Costco bottle of water.
And somehow some company, they probably paid a quarter per bottle and they just wrap. It just had their label on it. I thought it was neat.
SPEAKER_03
I remember when I went to Twitch for the first time when we were trying to sell the company and they were like, you want anything to drink? You know, here's the little fridge and I opened up. There was my first time I ever seen boxed water. And so I was like boxed water.
But I got that was like their gimmick and I was like, that's cool. I picked it up. You're a drink boxed water.
Tasty, nasty, by the way, does taste good. Tastes disgusting. And also you're drinking from the old school like milk carton.
Yeah, it's like drinking.
SPEAKER_01
It's like drinking orange juice out of like a thermo, like a metal thermos. It just doesn't taste good.
SPEAKER_03
It doesn't doesn't taste right. And then it doesn't even look right or feel right. So now I'm in this meeting trying to sell my company biggest day of my life.
And I'm like a toddler drinking from this like carton of water. And like the thing was just getting all wet and disintegrating. And I was like, oh, God, like, do you have a do you have like a dumpster? I can go through this away and it doesn't fit.
And he won't trash me.
SPEAKER_01
It's like a paper straw. All right, here's my next drunk idea. So it's like fuck them turtles.
SPEAKER_04
Show gone these. I don't want to choke myself to save the turtles. That's what was happening with the box.
SPEAKER_03
I have moved straight to the end.
SPEAKER_03
So the next one is I don't know what I need to call this. I need a catchy name. I'm going to call it.
Discord property managers, they can't think of a name. OK. So basically, there's a ton of discords out there now. Basically, this is like community managers is a job title, right? A lot of people have communities.
Communities are all the rage now. And there's a ton of discords, especially in the crypto world, a ton of discords. They're so hard to figure out that are just like noisy.
There's spammers and scammers and then there's new people coming in. They never use discord and never use crypto. This is a confusion all around.
I think somebody should build the best property management company for your discords. Just be like, dude, we are the best at managing discords. And we will manage your discord for this flat fee and just build a brand around being an amazing property manager for your digital property,
SPEAKER_01
for your digital spaces. That's a great idea. So VaynerMedia, we'll talk about them again.
When they started, their whole thing was like social media is new. We're like the guys, you know, we know how to handle it. And basically, most of their job titles were called community managers.
Or early on, a popular job title at their company was a community manager. We basically just met will comment on everyone's comment. You know, if you're Oreos and someone like makes a comment on about Oreos, we just reply.
And I actually think that you and they got big that way. I bet you VaynerMedia makes 200 plus million in revenue. It's a big ass company.
And you do the exact same thing. But now the new community or the new socialist community.
SPEAKER_03
And I think that you know, David Spinks. Yeah, of course. He was it was it was way early.
SPEAKER_03
Dude, he just if he started that like two years ago, instead of seven years ago, that would be like a hundred million dollar company right now. And he was just a little too early.
SPEAKER_01
He was early. Make it all the way. So David Spinks had this company called CMEX Summit.
It originally was a conference for community managers. Then it was like an online community and everything. And he sold it.
I don't remember.
SPEAKER_03
But the big idea was like you have a you have a CEO. Then you have a CTO. They handle there.
They are in charge of the technical part of things. You have a CIO, they're the chief information officer, CSO, CMO for marketing. So you have all these C-sweets and that his belief was that community is going to be a big part of companies.
And so you're going to have a CXO. I think it was the thing they were going for, which is like a chief community officer or some shit like that. I don't know why I was X CMEX.
I don't know what they were trying to do. But like basically it was this is going to be a job title at the C-suite level. And then you're going to have then like a senior community manager and then like a junior community manager.
And like this is a whole new job function. And he was right. Don't know how to do it.
And he was totally right and totally early, which is the same thing as being totally wrong.
SPEAKER_01
That's what's. Yeah, he was totally right and totally early. I completely agree.
He was on that like it felt like 10 years ago. Yeah. But I think this is a good idea. It would be a pain in the butt to run an agency, but I think this is an agency that could crush.
SPEAKER_03
Let me give you. OK, can I give you two ideas? So there's a guy. I mean, these are these are 100 percent stolen from another podcast.
I heard that listen to Bill Simmons podcast, sports podcast. And Bill has his buddy, Kevin Wilde, or Wildes, something like that. He comes on and he does half baked ideas.
What's he is he is like we need to get him on this pod because his half baked ideas are like he does drunk ideas. And he's been doing this for years and it's just a running bit. This guy, he only comes on like twice a year.
But when he does, he's got these amazing ones. Can I give you the two most recent ones he did? And he's by the way, he's amazing at pitching them. He's even better than me at pitching these these drunk ideas.
All right. So first one is called fit furniture. OK, fit furniture.
You might be wondering what is what is fit furniture? But hearing a lot about it lately. Do we make the highest quality furniture? No, we do not. Do we have the best prices? Sure, no.
Do we have furniture that fits through doorways? You bet your ass we do, because moving furniture is a requirement of furniture and all furniture is built as if everybody's home has just open walls that you could just drag these things through. So fit furniture is furniture optimized to fit through the standard doorway width.
SPEAKER_01
Do you know, do you know love sack? You remember love sack? Yeah, of course. So there's huge beanbags, right? Yeah, but their new stick is furniture that fits through a door. It's modular.
Oh my God. It's a it's a it's a couch that you take apart. And I try.
So at my Airbnb, the way it works, these guys are idiots. They put a spiral staircase going up and you on the second floor and that's the only stairs and you can't carry anything up a spiral staircase. So I was like, I can't get a couch unless I can take it apart.
And there's this company in Texas and they're the couch guys and they take apart your couch just for this problem. They take the whole thing apart and they rebuild it wherever you want it. And I was like, all right, well, I can't do that.
So I looked at I looked at because it's an Airbnb. I don't want to fancy couch. I looked at love sack.
They're interesting, but it's like three grand for one of their couches or four grand for one of the couches. So I ended up going with a food ton because I can build a food ton upstairs, but it was such a pain finding a couch that could fit into certain doorways that wasn't like over five thousand dollars. I completely agree.
SPEAKER_03
If you want to pay five star prices for that college experience, Sam's short term rental,
SPEAKER_04
sleep on a food ton. Well, so stars.
SPEAKER_01
No, we don't call it a food ton because if we call it a plot couch because it's like crazy comfortable. It's basically like a mattress that you can sit on sometimes. But yeah, I didn't I was embarrassed to call people.
I was embarrassed to call it a food ton. That's for sure.
SPEAKER_03
That was your nickname in college, right?
SPEAKER_02
The plot. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03
I mean, you can second idea. His second idea is called bulletin board material. So this is for this.
I think this is for you. I think you are the target market for this. So it's somebody somebody who you got a little chip on your shoulder and you like it.
It's that chip on your shoulder is made you who you are. There would be no hustle if there weren't any doubters.
SPEAKER_01
Dude, they say skeptics. Chips on shoulders create chips in pockets. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03
But what happens if you grew up around nice people, you don't have a chip on your shoulder, or maybe you had that chip sold the hustle
SPEAKER_02
and now everybody tells you you're so great. You don't know.
SPEAKER_01
Or you are so unlucky that you had a healthy father and a mother who treated you well.
SPEAKER_03
Like, you know, like, right? You can do anything.
SPEAKER_01
And such a disadvantage because I grew up in an emotionally, emotionally healthy household.
SPEAKER_03
The biggest disadvantage there is the biggest money. We help solve that problem. We are for the healthy middle class family who has lost their edge.
And what bulletin board material is, is it is haters as a service. And so what we do is we go and find the people. Oh, my first love podcast.
Every day people love the podcast, but guess what, in some corners of the Internet, there's people who hate this podcast. And so what haters as a service does is it compiles that information. And it takes out the real toxic stuff that's going to, you know, give you nightmares at night.
So there's some filtering and it just drips to you a little motivation every week that just reminds you that some people believe you can't do it. That some people say you're not so prepared for this podcast. Some people say, Sean, your camera's not working.
And you know, you got to get that sorted. And so it just gives you that healthy dose of hatred. So it's like we are best.
SPEAKER_01
And we just hire a bunch of immigrant mothers who children are grown and they have some free time. And they're like, well, you know, your brother's a doctor, Sean.
SPEAKER_03
You know, I actually know two women who can run the service singlehandedly.
SPEAKER_04
I'm not going to name any names. They can serve thousands of customers.
SPEAKER_01
Well, you know, it's not too late to go back to school.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah. So haters as a service. What do you think of that idea? You enter, yeah.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I'm down. We'll just call it like it has to just you're just negging people all day. Yeah, exactly.
And it's for immigrant mom.com. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah. Live like an immigrant.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, there's a reason why immigrants are always the best.
SPEAKER_03
Immigrant mentality.com. All right. Yeah, those are those are my drunk ideas.
You got any drunk ideas? I feel like I'm not creative like you.
SPEAKER_01
All my ideas are just like legitimate money making ideas, you know.
SPEAKER_03
It's hard for me to come up with bad ideas.
SPEAKER_01
How do you do it? Yeah, I'm like the Lady Gaga of ideas. There are no deep hits or there's no deep tracks hits only.
SPEAKER_03
That's the episode.
SPEAKER_00
I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to put my all in it like days on the road. Let's travel never looking back.