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SPEAKER_04
He's like, you're afraid of me, huh? And I was like, yeah, I'm afraid. And he goes, that's your truth, huh?

SPEAKER_00
Yeah. I feel like I can rule the world, I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it like no days off on a road, let's travel never looking back.

SPEAKER_03
What's going on?

SPEAKER_04
It was Wednesday. It was good, man. Ramon was on.

So, you know, Ramon, Ramon is the best. So Ramon came on and did his thing. He was the best.

SPEAKER_02
Good. I'm happy for him. He's getting a bunch of wins right now.

And that makes me happy for him.

SPEAKER_04
Yeah. Where were you? So you were doing something interesting. That's why you're out.

SPEAKER_02
So let me tell you. Come back, tell us a story. Yeah, let me tell you what I did.

So I volunteer with this program called The Last Mile. It was started by my friend Chris Rudlitz. Chris started, he did a bunch of stuff.

He was early at Reebok. So he's 65 years old. He was an early employee at Reebok when he probably became very financially successful there.

Then he started a company that he took public and then he started a VC fund that I believe was quite successful. They were in on wish.com and a few other things.

And he started this charity or nonprofit called The Last Mile. And the whole vision behind this thing is basically, I'm not supposed to use the word inmates. They've asked me not to use the word inmates, but sometimes I'm still gonna use that word because that's what most people know what it means.

But basically prison inmates, they are gonna get out.

SPEAKER_04
What do they want you to say?

SPEAKER_02
Well, and it's a good terminology and good way of thinking, but basically they're like, well, look, we're trying to get them out of prison and into the mindset of they're gonna be working and having a job. We don't wanna refer to them as offenders as inmates, but students. Students, okay.

SPEAKER_04
But that would be confusing in this context.

SPEAKER_02
Okay, yeah. In this context, yes. And so I'm gonna kind of go against his rules in this context.

So there's something like a million people in prison, right? And a lot of guys are there for 10, 20, 30 years for manslaughter, for doing whatever. They're gonna get out. And whether you like that, whether you forgive them for their crime or not, the fact is is that they're gonna get out.

And so The Last Mile is teaching them how to code for about two or three years through a program and then helping them get jobs at like Slack, I believe eBay, things like that. And they've graduated, I think 800 people out of prison who have went through their program and none of them have gone back to prison. And I believe the average prison, the average person who goes to prison, I think it's like a 65% chance that they go back to prison.

Right. So the fact is that these guys, like for example, I was with this one guy who basically he caught his wife cheating and they got into an argument. According to the news, I Googled it.

She like went to fight him with a hammer. He grabbed the hammer and killed her. And he was in prison for 20 years.

And I was hanging out with this guy, which is weird. That's weird. You know, that's like a mind fuck.

And he was like, yeah, I'm gonna get out in three years. Prior to this, I was an engineer or sorry, I was a sales person at a pharmaceutical company. I had a great job.

And I'm learning how to do JavaScript and MongoDB so I can get a job at a tech company, hopefully, because no one's gonna hire me unless I go through this program. And that's crazy, right? Isn't that weird? Like I'm hanging out. I was with my wife, Sarah, we're walking around this prison, just hanging out with these guys.

And I get to know them. And I'm like, I would hang. I mean, you're nice enough.

You're, we would get along fine. I had no idea you'd ever done this. And they start opening up and telling me what they did.

And it's pretty amazing. And it's amazing for a couple of reasons. The first reason is that when you're in this, like when you're, so some guys are just like habitual criminals.

Like I talked to this one guy. I was like, what was your job before this? He was like, Oh, I was a meth dealer. I sold meth and I killed the guy.

We went to Rob this house and I killed someone. And, and I, and he was like, besides killing them, I was just like criminal. I just did all types of crazy shit.

But once I learned how to do coding, I actually got more logical where I realized that if I do this, then this other thing is going to happen. And so I started learning a lot about impulse control and I started learning about myself. And so it's like learning how to code, but also learning about yourself type of thing.

SPEAKER_04
Like if then statement for your life.

SPEAKER_02
Yes. And so that's quite fascinating. The second thing is, you know, there's not a lot of black coders, but unfortunately there's a lot of black folks in prison.

And so these guys are learning how to code. We are with, we're in Indiana. It was mostly white people, but I've done this in San Quentin, but like for someone who graduates and leaves jail and they go back to an all black neighborhood, a lot of times it's these, these kids, these young kids, it's the first time they're going to meet a programmer who's black and who looks like them.

And so not only are we helping these folks stay out of prison, but it's kind of cool that like, you know, you're actually like helping the diversity issue in tech. And so it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_04
So how the heck did this guy, Chris Redlitz start this? That seems so random from like, you know, your employee at a Reebok and then you start a VC fund. And where did this come from?

SPEAKER_02
I believe the story is 10 years ago, he was dating a woman and she volunteered at a prison and she was teaching, I think math. Like she just got pulled into it at San Quentin. She lived in San Francisco and someone was like, Hey, we need like, or no, sorry.

Someone was like, Chris, can you come and talk about entrepreneurship to these inmates? And he was like, I guess I'll go. And he goes and they're like, can you come again? Can you come again? And he's like, I guess. And then eventually he was like, wow, you know, this is a major problem that I'm passionate and I care about.

And so him and his wife, they started a thing where they go, hey, they went to Sacramento, the capital of California and they basically lobbied for this program. They go, hey, everyone will put up the $100,000. They're talking to the politicians.

Would it be okay if we did a cohort for entrepreneurship in San Quentin? And they like, through friends of friends, they got in front of the right people and it approved. And then they're like, well, you know, entrepreneurship is okay, but teaching them how to code is way better. And so he starts doing that.

And then he goes and convinces Apple. I believe the Trump administration, the Koch brothers, rich people to donate money and now they have this like huge program.

SPEAKER_04
That's kind of amazing. They've trained some huge number of people, right? Like there are a lot of people in this program. Is that right?

SPEAKER_02
Yeah, they've got, I believe that they only allow like 20 or 30 people per like cohort and they have like 15 prisons doing it. By the way, if you're listening to this, well, they graduated, I think a thousand people. And I was gonna say, by the way, if you're listening to this, I'm getting some of these numbers wrong.

I didn't like write all this down. So whatever I'm saying, divide by two and multiply by two. So I think they have like a thousand people, but let me tell you something that's interesting.

So I was in this prison and you wanna know what's crazy, dude. Most everyone was really fat and out of shape.

SPEAKER_04
And you- As a fitness influencer, you just, you couldn't help yourself.

SPEAKER_02
Well, here's why this is interesting to me. So I was talking to Chris and I was like, you know, everyone was like fat and like the food that they give these folks, it's horrible. Like white bread and baloney and like generic, like Oreo cookies.

And you can buy stuff, but he was like, yeah, well, you know, at some of the longer maximum security prisons, they're a little bit more fit, but yeah, it's a huge problem. And in China, I was like, Chris, like if we gave these guys like, look, I understand like the idea of like, you committed a crime, you sacrificed privileges, whatever. But I think if we just gave them like some better meat and vegetables for every meal and forced them to exercise, like you gotta get up at seven a.

m. And as a prison, we're gonna do jumping jacks, push-ups, calisthenics, and like, you know, it's like the military. I think they would behave better.

And ultimately, like if your body works better, you're gonna maybe behave and act a little bit better. And he was like, yeah, you know, I think I agree. But even in American prisons, you can't force people to do anything.

It's like against the law or against the rules. But I started thinking about this. And I think that's kind of interesting.

And they do this in China. And he was like, yeah, we like got some, we like saw Chinese prisons and everyone shredded because they make you do this.

SPEAKER_04
Okay. Did you know I've done a very similar thing? And so I got a couple of, like when you said you were doing this, I like remembered back when I did this. So there's a group in the Bay Area that does this called the inside circle, I think it's called.

And nonprofit, they basically go into, it's like a men's group. So for people who listen to this, that don't know what a men's group is, it's an idea that's been around for a long time. And there's many different flavors of this.

There's some that are like kind of business oriented. There's some that are oriented around just sort of changing your life. I forgot, what's the, what's the famous one in the Bay Area that people think is a cult? That's like a men's group.

I don't know if you know the name of it. It's like a weekend, it's like a weekend thing you do.

SPEAKER_02
But there's a whole bunch of these.

SPEAKER_04
Like getting back water or something? Yeah, something like that. Not that, but there's something like that. So anyways, a men's group is where a bunch of men get together, they sit in a circle and they talk about their feelings and they talk about what's going on.

And they have like a whole process that's like, basically helps people unpack what's going on inside. So that they, when you unpack what's going on inside, you're not carrying all this baggage around and then you will act more like the way you wanna act because you don't have to sort of suppress and pent up stuff inside. That's my like layman's version of it.

I'm sure there's a much fancier, better way of explaining it. So I went to Folsom Prison, did the same sort of thing. Two day program, you go in, I met this guy, Gino.

He was kind of like, you know, you get a pen pal buddy basically. So you meet your buddy and he was in there. He's been in there since he was 18 and he had murdered somebody when he was 18.

And he's like been in there for 20 years now. So he's 38 and he was like, you know, yeah, I did this horrible thing when I was 18 and like I'm in here for life basically. Like my whole life is basically in prison.

And he had a great, great attitude about him, funny guy. And he was, you know, he was just, it was kind of unreal because I had been, you know, kind of embarrassed to admit it, but I had been kind of, you know, in my head, I just sort of wrote this off. Like I just wrote off people in prison.

Like I think society writes them off. And I had sort of just thought like, yeah, I'm not super interested in going in and meeting people who have murdered people before. But, you know, it's really not that simple once you meet them.

It's really not that simple to sort of like bucket people like that as good and bad. And so, you know, kind of, you know, it's kind of embarrassing to even say it out loud. It sounds obvious, but, you know, it was kind of a, I don't know, it was kind of an awakening moment.

And then we, we did these exercises. So we did these exercises where you're like, you know, you sit in your little group and you talk about what's going on. And it's so funny, because it was basically half successful tech guys and then half people from Folsom Prison.

And, and they would be like, you know, the tech guys like, oh, you know, you know, just a stereotype for a second. Like my kids trying to get into this private school and the admissions process, my wife is really blah, blah, blah. And then like the next guy who's like, you know, I haven't seen my daughter in 25 years and I just hope she's okay.

And I heard something, heard something happen to her and I'm not able to help and it's just gutting me. And then the tech guys like, you know, my company, we raised our A, we're just trying to raise our B. Like, you know, so it was like, it's so funny, like real problems, fake problems, real problems, fake problems.

And, but like, this is sort of like no judgment, right? That's the idea is like, actually it's funny. The guys who lead you in there, they're very like sort of wise people. There's one guy at BJ who runs the program and then I forgot the name of the other guy.

He's an awesome guy. He's like, he's like recognized as a shaman and like seven different civilizations in Africa. Like this guy is just a beast in all ways.

They, in fact, they call his nickname is Beastmaster because he sort of is able to tame the beast in the prison. And he's got this like presence about him that you wouldn't believe. Like, imagine Ray Lewis does volunteer work.

He was in prison, but he wasn't prison. He got out and then he, you know, devoted his life to this work. And he's like sort of one of the most wise guys ever.

And he said this early on, he's like, you know, let's set some ground rules before we go in here, man. Like, okay, what do we, and one guy was like, you know, no judgment, I want to be going here. I don't want to judge the guys in there.

He goes, okay, so we're going to lie to ourselves. And he's like, what? What do you mean? He's like, you're going to make a judgment. When somebody says something or does something, the brain is instantaneously going to make a judgment.

And you can sit there and say, no, no, no, I'm not doing it. I don't want to do it. You can try to resist it, but you're going to fail.

He goes, instead, let's just agree to this. You'll make the judgment, but then just agree to this. The judgment says more about you than it does about them.

He's like, so just use that reaction to teach you about yourself. Don't use it to define the other people in there. That's something that I still use to this day, kind of like in every walk of life, because it's so true.

So anyways, I had this like crazy experience in there. So I was talking, or I guess like, I don't know if I should even tell the story, but basically I, when I went in, there was one guy in there that just looked like the baddest dude in the prison. He was wearing his sunglasses.

Nobody else was wearing sunglasses. He had like a cane. He wasn't the strongest or the biggest, but you could tell he had the respect of everybody in there and almost like the fear, like a fear version of respect, or at least that's what I perceived.

Because you know, you go into the situation, you sort of quickly scope it out and you're trying to like understand the lay of the land. And so instantaneously, my brain's judgment was, that's the baddest dude in here. Like, don't piss that guy off.

Don't say the wrong thing in front of that person. He kind of scares me. And of course, as fate would have it, we get into a group of four, we get matched up, and he's my buddy in the group of four.

And this guy basically, I was, you know, so then you're supposed to like, again, talk about your problems. And I was kind of conscious to be like, okay, I'm not going to talk about these like first world problems. So I tried to say some shit that was like deeper than that, but he saw straight through it because these people have a very good, you know, bullshit detector.

And he was like, he's like, man, you just saying what we want to hear. He just cut me off like two minutes in. Oh, that's bad.

And I was in the middle of my big kind of like heartfelt thing. And I'm a good talker. I'm a good storyteller.

I'm a good liar, frankly. And he immediately was like, man, don't come in here and just say what we want to hear. And I was like, oh, shit.

And then I'm like, my, the guy I was already afraid of is now calling me out specifically for basically one of the worst things you could do in these situations, which is be inauthentic, be fake. And it's like, you really didn't have to do anything. That was the one thing, just don't be fake.

And I was being fake and this guy called me out on it. He's like, what you really thinking? And I was like, and I just said, what was on my mind? I go, I go, I really just don't want to sound like an idiot in front of you. And he starts laughing.

And he goes, he goes, you afraid of me? I was like, yeah, I'm afraid. Hey, I'm afraid. He goes, so if I get closer, you'd be afraid.

He gets closer, closer. He gets right up to my face, like one inch for my face. And he's like, he's like, you afraid of me, huh? And I was like, I was like, yeah, I'm afraid.

And he goes, that's your truth, huh? I go, yeah. And he goes, I go, yeah, I'm like, in my head, I'm like, oh, okay, I think I did it right. I just said, I was thinking of that.

I think, you know, and so then the brain, the voice in my head that was like judging every word I was saying, kind of like relaxed for a second because this guy put him at ease. And he was like, he's like, I can respect that. And he's like, he starts telling a story about a time, like his life when he was afraid.

And like, you know, I'm off the hook. I go sit down now. And at the end, the guy like, you know, basically gave me a hug on the way out.

And he was like, you know, he's like, I hope I see you again sometime. And I was like, wow, that was just like a little life moment that it doesn't, like, I don't know, I'm telling the story. Now I don't think this even means anything to anybody.

But I remember this like it happened yesterday. There's very few moments in my life that I can remember so vividly, but this was one of them. And I think it was because it was like a primal moment where I didn't know what was gonna happen.

It was real fear. You talk about this a lot. Like we're very rarely in real danger situations.

And even though this wasn't actual danger, this guy wasn't gonna do anything to me. It definitely felt that way.

SPEAKER_02
And I remember it. And the crazy part, and we can move on after this, but the crazy part is like, I think what separates you and me or anyone listening to this podcast, which by the way, I learned, well, I'll talk about that in a second, what separates us from someone like these folks. Like I met a bunch of people who are like habitual criminals.

They were like, yeah, you know, I just like, I was a drug addict or I was just, I hated authority. And I've changed, but I was young and mean. And I met a bunch of other people who worked.

I met a guy who worked at Avid. I met a guy who worked at Ford. I met a guy who as engineers, like, you know, they're probably making six figures and they go, my marriage went horrible.

One of us cheated and I got into a fist fight and I killed someone or I hurt someone really badly. And I was like, I don't think I'm ever gonna like hurt someone, but I could. Like it's not like in a thing of rage, like you could flip out or I could get drunk and kill someone and driving.

You know, like you could. And it's not that, we're not that different, some of these guys. And so that was really crazy.

And while there, so let's get, we'll talk about business. There's this, there's, these guys have like iPads. They're not Apple, but they're like a different brand of like, iPad type of like tablet.

And you can be an approved podcast. And so if we go through the process of getting approved, we can go on there. And there's about a million incarcerated folks in America.

And there's not that many podcasts on this thing. So I was like, oh, I was like, dude, let's boost our numbers. And so I'm working with the right people.

There's like a company that makes these like iPads. Amazing. And we're gonna get on that.

SPEAKER_04
It's called Microsoft and it's a Surface. The Microsoft manages this in shambles as you keep calling it an iPad.

SPEAKER_02
Dude, I looked it up on Wikipedia. It's this company and they were, they sold to a PE company for $2 billion. And they basically make things that the prison gives to, you know, incarcerated folks and they can buy, they can like buy movies and shit.

And you basically, if you have enough money on your accounts, you can watch movies your entire stay. And so anyway, it was kind of cool.

SPEAKER_04
So that's my story. I have a related thing. Do you know the guy Mike Posner? Of course.

The musician. So he, I know who he is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02
So he's like kind of like rapper, singer type dude. I took a pill in Ibiza. That's like a special thing.

SPEAKER_04
I took a pill in Ibiza, cooler than me. He's got a couple of big, big, big, big songs. He went to Duke, right? He went to Duke.

So he was there while I was there. We were in the same year. And I remember meeting him or seeing him and he said, white kid, he said he was going to be a white kid from Detroit.

He said he was going to be a rapper. I was like, all right, like Eminem, like, you know, that's who goes to Duke. Yeah. Like you went to Duke. Yeah. That's not really the path, my friend. But he killed it.

He did amazing. And actually like one of the things I remember from that was he released his song on iTunes U because he was in school. So he could only somebody, only a student or professor could put content on iTunes U, which was like the subsection of iTunes.

And because most of the things that go up there are like extremely academic, right? This is like a lecture from this random biology class at Duke. So now all of a sudden you get this like rap song that goes on iTunes U and he hit the top of the charts on iTunes U. And he would tell, so he put out there like, yo, I'm number one on iTunes, you know, like parentheses.

Yeah. And so that's how I think he got booked on. First, that's how we got a lot of college.

It's like a growth act, like a lot of college students heard his song because iTunes U had like a like there was like the rankings that like show the top 10 iTunes songs, which is super competitive. You got to be like mega famous to do that. And then right below it was top 10 iTunes U downloads.

And his was number one. And so I think he got a lot of fans that way. And then he booked a bunch of early gigs when he had no name to say it by saying, yeah, I'm number one on college campuses on iTunes.

And they were like, well, yeah, sounds decent. I will give you a shot. And that's it.

And then he went on a college tour and that's how he built his following. So he did a very similar thing to what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02
That's bad ass. I like him a lot. So that's a good that's a good story.

It's like it's like Bjork getting famous in Iceland or something. Like it's better to be like have like a local maximum, like to be famous on a local on a local level. And then you leverage that.

SPEAKER_04
So I'll tell you about a one more quick prison one before we switch off that. So so my buddy did my buddy. My best friend, Trevor, did this thing called a bookstore.

Which I think is a great idea in general, which is he wanted to write a book. And so he's like, all right, books normally take a long time. What if I did it differently? He's like, so let me he did like a quick, not a draft, but like just a quick like kind of concept of the book.

And then he flew out the five most bad ass people he knew. And he put us all up in a hotel and he said, I want you here for basically a day and a half to just help me think through this book. And he's like, we'll brainstorm it together.

And he's like, I think if I just do this with deep intensity, I can make way more progress than if I just kind of like lightly touched this book every day. For like two years. Yeah, for two years.

And it totally works. What's their last name? What's Trevor's last name? Reagan, R-A-G-A-N. So he so he and now he has the book.

It's coming out. It did like a for what he called like a patio book. It's like a podcast of the audio of the book or something like that.

So anyways, he flew out. It was me because I was like his best friend from college. And then it was like this person who was like the the the Olympic coach for the women's volleyball team.

And so the US US women's volleyball has just kicked ass internationally, which is not expected because volleyball is a much bigger sport in other countries. But this guy like turned the program around and like so he was amazing. He was there.

And this one guy was there and he had been in prison for 20 years and he had gotten out and he had Trevor does a lot of pro bono like talking in prisons. And so he had met this guy in the process and he was like, wow, this guy's amazing. And this guy shared two things.

So I was like, he came out and I was like, man, this guy's like, he is so wise. He is so articulate. I feel like he's read every fucking book because he keeps referencing really insightful pieces from all these different books.

And so I was like, what's your story, man? He's like, actually, I was in prison for 20 years. I was like, whoa, no shit. And he goes, you know, I said, so you read all these books while you're there.

He goes, he goes, yeah, he goes. My first year when I was there is like I was 20 years old or something like that. He's like, I decided I'm going to see what I want to see.

He goes, so I decided. Like you said, they're calling, they're called the students there. That's what he did.

That's what he did for himself in his brain. He goes, I told myself I'm not in prison. I'm in university.

He's like, every day I woke up, I said, I'm getting a 20 year PhD in life. He said, every day I woke up and I just, everybody around me in the line, we're getting food out. This is the student union.

I'm at the student union. I'm getting food from the meal hall. I'm going to the library.

I am in university right now. I am not in prison. He just literally like worked himself up into a frenzy where his mind only saw that and he saw everything as, as university.

So he read all these different books and then similarly he said, you know, I would look around on the, on the yard and on the yard, you'd see all kinds of bad shit going on. You know, the black guys fighting the white guys and the mixing guys and all that. And you'd see broken, you know, just broken down, you know, our basketball hoop was half crooked all that.

And he's like, I just played a game every day. I, in my mind, I would change what I saw. So I would see a beautiful green field.

I would see that he's like every day. He's like, if I saw broken glass, I would see roses. And this guy's mindset impressed me so much.

It's another one that stuck with me, which was like, create your own reality. And like how many times if this guy could do that in prison, then when I'm waiting in line at Starbucks, I'm not waiting in line bored. I change it in my head just like the guy changed his university thing.

So that was another one that was like a huge life thing that I took away from that guy.

SPEAKER_03
Dude, I love this prison talk.

SPEAKER_02
We should, I got to, we got, I think we should do like an entire episode on this. There's like all these guys who are blowing up on YouTube who like are, it's all about crime and, and, and prison talk and whatnot. And I learned so much from those folks.

SPEAKER_04
Do you watch these videos that's basically like a guy, these are not insightful and deep, but they're just entertaining to me. Have you seen these ones where guys will go to film around a police station and then the cop comes out and he's like, Hey, why are you filming, man? What are you, what are you doing here? Let me see your license. Let me see your ID.

He's like, Nope, I'm not going to show you my ID. And he's like, what? He's like, let me see your ID. Yeah, watch that shit all the time.

And he's like, No, I know my rights. I'm in a public place. I'm allowed to film.

He's like, Yeah, but what are you doing here? He's like, do you not know the rights? And they just like talk back to cops. And there's something about this, about just talking back to cops.

SPEAKER_02
It's called justice porn. And it's fun. Exactly.

It's justice porn. That's what I call it.

SPEAKER_04
It's like, and the comments are super polarized. Half the people are like, what an asshole dude. You're just making, you're just being annoying to the cops.

They're like, you're provoking them and then they take the bait and then you like jump on them because you, why did you spend your day doing this? And then the other half people are sort of like me and they're like, God, I don't know why I find this so entertaining. I just love when somebody like, it's just like, yeah, there's something to it, but I can't resist. That's my joke.

That's my new reality TV.

SPEAKER_02
Yeah. Go to Reddit.com slash justice porn.

And there's a whole subreddit for that. And there's like a million subscribers. It's pretty crazy.

SPEAKER_04
Yeah, it's nuts. Like there'll be a guy gets pulled over and he's like, let me see your ID. And he shows him a password from another country and he's like, uh, no, I need your ID.

He's like, no, you don't, there's a treaty that says if I show you this password, blah, blah, blah, and you cannot arrest me. He's like, no, some random ass like loophole and he's just driving around fast, hoping to get pulled over just so he can do this thing on camera and get a bunch of views.

SPEAKER_02
It's kind of sick, but I like it. Speaking about the countries, let me tell you about something interesting. Have you heard of Prospera?

SPEAKER_03
Have you heard of Prospera? Paras sounds very familiar. What is it? Okay.

SPEAKER_02
I almost, or I'm in the process and I hope I can make it happen of investing in this company called a mini circle. So Prospera is this new, like private charter city. We've talked about private charter cities a bunch.

Right. Okay. And so it was set up in part by Peter Teal, who's a very controversial, weirdo guy. I like him, but a lot of people don't.

And so he basically set up this country or the city in Honduras and they have their own rules and their own laws and weird things like that. So do you know what gene therapy is? Have you heard of gene therapy?

SPEAKER_04
Yeah. Is it basically like, is, would CRISPR be part of gene therapy? So it's basically the modification of your DNA in order to like fight disease. Is that, is that a good description?

SPEAKER_02
Yeah. So it's this very experimental kind of technique, kind of like medical procedure where basically you insert and modify genes in order to, in order to replace surgeries or drugs. So for example, there's this kid in Syria.

He had some weird disorder where like all of his skin started deteriorating. He was about to die and they did this gene editing stuff and he was able to regrow back his skin and a lot of people, but it's very controversial because you're doing a couple of things. You're kind of like playing God, which I don't buy in, but that's an argument.

And also, yeah, and people don't like it. And also it's experimental. And so the FDA like very closely monitors this stuff and they'll say like, yeah.

And so there's, and there's a lot of like weird like bio hacker fringe types who are interested in this stuff. And so it's all like controversial kind of, but nonetheless, it's cool. So I'm trying to invest in this company called mini circle and they're making this new gene therapy that like increases muscle mass, bone density helps you with insulin sensitivity and does all this like crazy shit to you.

But in order to get it done in America, you got to go to the FDA and it's like this big process. And so they've moved their company to Prospera, this Peter teal city in order to make all this shit happen. And they're doing their testing.

SPEAKER_00
Is the floating city or is this the one in Honduras, Latin America, Honduras.

SPEAKER_02
It's in Honduras. And so they're doing it like, so basically they're like, we're working with fully informed and trusted. I'm reading off something.

We're working with fully informed and trusted study participants who are choosing to do this. Right. But it, we couldn't get this done in America. It would take 40 years to do this.

We're going to do this on this link on this weird city type of thing. And I'm trying to invest in this company. I think it's ridiculous.

I think it's crazy, but kind of cool.

SPEAKER_04
It is very cool. I invested in one charter city called praxis and what they did was pretty smart. They were like, they first created just a bunch of like, like a group here in America.

So they invited a bunch of cool people from New York, LA, San Francisco, and they're just like host events of the dope parties. So these people, they're like in a community, they get to meet each other at these events and there's like an online component and they keep doing this, they keep doing this. And meanwhile they're searching, they're going around to like all around the world and they're basically negotiating with governments and they're saying, Hey, give us some free land and let us have our own rule of law and rule of financial law in like our own financial regular regulations and our own rule of law in this zone.

We're going to create a new city and we're going to bring all these people like cool people plus like development dollars to your place. Right. So in the US, you could never say, Hey, US government, go give us, you know, a little piece of Wyoming. They're not really going to give you that.

But you know, you go to whatever, you know, you go just in the Mediterranean and the Balkans and you find some random piece of land and you say, Oh, this is beautiful. It's right on the ocean. It's undeveloped.

And you go to the government and you say, look, what if I could get a bunch of people from America, you know, successful people who want to kind of live in a new, a new charter city. And, uh, and so it's like really wild moonshot idea. I totally fully expect this investment to go to zero.

I put in a very small check, but I had to participate because the founder was so convinced that like, yeah, of course people will do this. And, uh, and that if you did it, it would be very large. It'd be like owning the raw land, you know, you know, the land under Manhattan where all the buildings are going to get built and you can either do development yourself or you could sell off the pads and make a ton of money.

So the business is great if you can kick off a new charter city. And one of the ways you attract people is this, like if you own it, if you have your own rule of law, you can say, Hey, bio hackers come here because you're allowed to do, you know, you're allowed to run your experiments here because we have our own kind of like free zone where we can do our own shit. And so, uh, I think it's really cool.

What's happening. Biology is pretty convinced that in the next 10 years, we're going to see charter cities, uh, you know, pop up startup cities.

SPEAKER_02
Yeah. And on one hand to say, to explain why this, like why the haters exist on this. Um, and why I, I definitely hate on them a little bit or, you know, there's like some negativity, which is like, it's most likely like fringe libertarian types, kind of like how all the Bitcoin rich folks are going to Puerto Rico to avoid taxes.

You know, you could say like the FDA exists for a good reason. Rules exist for a good reason. You guys are freaks just trying to like avoid the reality.

Um, and there's definitely a truth to that. And there are like probably that's a solid argument. Some parts of that.

And then on the other side, you can say, well, like that's like what the fucking America started, right?

SPEAKER_04
Yeah, exactly. We bailed on. We were the free experimentation zone, right?

SPEAKER_02
Yeah. Like we wrote a ship across like, uh, you know, 3000 miles, not knowing what to expect. And we just landed and we figured it out.

SPEAKER_04
So, I think even the people who like startup cities would say, yeah, great. There should be the FDA. There should be all the stuff for most people in most places.

But if it covers all, all land and all people within a country, then you stamp out the experiment wild experimentation. So I know that Google guys have been talking about this before, which is that they need a, there should be a free space where if you opt in, you can go and you could do some of the experimental things that you can't do here. And the learnings from that, let's say nine out of the 10 things don't work out or they have bad consequences.

Okay, fine. But if one breakthrough innovation or, or, or discovery is made, then that can be exported back to the mainland and we can say, look, let's go, let's take this through proper testing and let's roll it out to everybody. So like, you know, people go to Germany to go get, you know, stem cell treatments and things like that because it's not legal here, but in other countries, they're more liberal about it.

So like, you know, I started a company once a biotech company and the technology was made in the U S the government, U S government had, had funded $40 million of R and D for this technology, but you couldn't go use it in anywhere in the U S cause the like, you would never get the permits that people would say, why would we will not let you put these microbes into the ground? It was basically these little micro bugs that could eat coal underground. So you don't have to mine it. And they would basically just like fart or breathe out natural gas.

So they will just mine the coal themselves and you just collect the natural gas. You don't have to frack the earth and you don't have to mine the coal, but the U S would never let us pump these microbes into the ground because they're like, we don't have to. We're not going to be good here.

We don't have to that. So we went to Indonesia and we went to India where they were like, yeah, hey, here's a huge plot of land. How much money do you need to go do this? We love this, right? We want economic activity.

We want innovation. And if this works, then we want to capture some of the upside of being able to like sell this technology to others. And so we got quick permits in Indonesia and India where we couldn't, you know, the company is trying to do the same thing in the U S they were bogged down for years and never got approvals.

SPEAKER_02
Have you ever heard of medical tourism? All right, everyone, today's episode is brought to you by imperfect action hosted by Steph Taylor. It's a podcast on HubSpots podcast network, the audio destination for business professionals. Imperfect action is a bite sized online marketing podcast for business owners.

So join Steph Taylor as she answers all your business marketing questions that deep dives into the nitty gritty of online marketing, content marketing, social media marketing and marketing for strategy for business owners. A few recent episodes include some of the biggest mistakes you can make with your launch. Another one is why growing your audience feels so hard in 2022.

And another one is five ways to make content creation less consuming. So check it out. It's called imperfect action.

You can look it up wherever you get your podcasts.

SPEAKER_04
Yeah, I've always been curious about like how how people have the guts to do this, but it makes sense. You go to Mexico and get your teeth fixed or whatever. You know, have you ever done anything like this?

SPEAKER_02
No. So for those who don't know what this is, I learned about this because me and Sean's buddy, John Howard, your friends with John Howard. Yeah, yeah, he's great.

We I shared an office with him at this place called Founders Dojo and they created a company. I forget the name of it, but it was basically medical tourism. So basically, I think a use case is typically like dentists or like veneers and teeth stuff.

Although then there was other stuff like breast implants and plastic surgery where their premise was basically it's cheaper to get it done in Bali or Mexico or India. Somewhere like that where like there I have no idea if this is true. They're like the doctors are just as good, but it's a fraction of the cost to fly out there, get the surgery done and chill there for a week and recover and fly back.

The company did not work out. And frankly, in my opinion, it sounds like a fucking pain in the ass. I would never do that.

I'd rather pay $20,000 in America for veneers, but be able to get it done like three bucks from my house than I would want to go to Mexico.

SPEAKER_04
But well, yeah, it's not for you, right? It's for somebody who can't afford it here. It's not if I could do this or that. It's I can't do this and my teeth fucking hurt or I can't do this and I need this surgery done.

Okay. If I can't afford it here, even with insurance, then okay, I'll go to Mexico and I'll do it because I have no, no, no real other option. All right.

It's so prohibitively expensive. It would cripple me financially and I don't want to save my health and cripple my finances. So I'm going to do this.

There's I think it's a hundred billion dollars a year is paid out.

SPEAKER_03
No way.

SPEAKER_04
It's a hundred billion dollars of medical tourism per year globally.

SPEAKER_02
That amazes me. I never would have thought that. I just think it's a hundred billion dollars.

SPEAKER_04
That's what I'm saying. It seems wild, right? But I think that's the, you know, when people are pushed into a corner, they will find a way, you know, that is sort of the innovation of people. And yeah, I'm actually surprised this thing didn't work.

What he was doing was he was selling leads. So he would find customers who are interested in it. He would educate them and he would sell those leads to the medical offices, you know, in Mexico or wherever and say, Hey, this person is interested.

They want to do a phone call with you. Would you pay us a hundred dollars for that lead? And they were like, Yeah, sure. You know, and I honestly think that business should have worked and would have worked.

Had he stuck with it, it was like a pivot. Maybe he didn't have enough time to figure it out.

SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I don't I don't know the particulars, but I know that it's when he told me about it, I was like, there's no way this would work. But I say that about a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_04
Yeah, exactly. All right. What else do I talk about?

SPEAKER_00
I don't know.

SPEAKER_02
What do you want to do?

SPEAKER_04
Let me look at your list here. Okay, so there's Julian building of ranch. I think that's pretty cool.

And we should talk about that. Let's do Julian building a ranch and then let's do let's do that. Okay, I have a good D dive.

I'm going to save it for the next episode. It's a good one about the diamond industry.

SPEAKER_02
All right. Lay the background of this. So you know Julian better than I do.

SPEAKER_04
Yeah. Yeah. So Julian Shapiro, he's just at Julian on Twitter. A lot of people follow him there.

I think he's got like, you know, 200,000 or maybe more followers. He's a weirdo. Total weirdo in the best way possible.

Yeah. He called me the other day and I said, I go, hello. And he goes, the love of my life.

Check my phone. Who the fuck is calling me? And then he's like, I have this deal, blah, blah, blah. And then he just goes straight into it.

Doesn't even acknowledge the love of my life part. It was just hilarious. He's just a hilarious character.

He sends us like the funniest memes. Like on Twitter, he's like this really thoughtful, intellectual, like guy who'll teach you how to write and teach you about all this other stuff. Teach you how to think frameworks, blah, blah, blah.

And then in our group chat, he's sending, you know, the, the goofiest memes, which is like, that's my favorite type of person who's got both of those sides to him, the silly side and the smart side. So he tweeted out that he's basically, he's been talking about this for a while. So it's not just like a bullshit thing, but he's like, he really, really wants to build a ranch.

And actually, by the way, I should share the most interesting thing about him for the last eight months. All he has eaten is lag you steak and boiled eggs. What's I don't believe.

I believe it because he's crazy and he kind of needed to, I think he had some like his, his gut health wasn't right. He just like took control. He's like, I'm going to, I'm going to figure out how to fix this.

The doctor's not helping me. I'm going to fix this myself. He had read about the carnivore diet.

I think Jordan Peterson had a very similar like kind of like issue and he famously came outside. I did carnivore. It healed me basically.

And so he started doing it. He started feeling a little better. He was kind of committed to it.

And he's like, okay. So he literally orders wagyu steak from these like farm from this one farm actually, in particular, and he orders like $3,000 a month of steak and he shows me this freezer. His freezer is just full of bricks of steak.

Like imagine like, you know, when you see in a movie piles of cash, like just bound up piles of cash, it's that, but with wagyu stakes.

SPEAKER_02
And so he had like, he said, he said, it was miserable for like six or eight weeks. He was like, I craved carbs. I crave sugar and then he got six, eight weeks into it and he's like, I can't even imagine eating sugar carbs again.

I don't crave them at all. It sounds horrible.

SPEAKER_04
And by the way, that's a real thing from what I understand that there's basically in your microbiome, in your gut, there's all these, you know, basically there's bacteria that live there and the bacteria feed on the different yeast and bacteria feed off of different like substrate, different food. And so the more you eat carbs, so imagine if what you're putting in is carbs, the bacteria that thrived off of, let's call it meat, are gonna sort of die out and the bacteria that thrive on carbs are gonna like proliferate, they're gonna spread, they're gonna multiply and they're gonna, they're gonna make up the majority of your gut. And then if you decide to switch and go low carb, all of a sudden those bacteria are gonna say where the hell's our food? And in the craving you feel, those carb cravings is not just like your mind being weak, it's literally the gut bacteria that are signaling to your body, we need our fix, we need our shit or we're gonna die.

SPEAKER_02
Dude, what are you, are you reading about body stuff now? How do you know all this?

SPEAKER_04
No, well I heard this once, I was fascinated by it. And somebody had told me this and I looked into it because I was like, is that bullshit? And like, I'll just say half the shit I read five years later turns out to be bullshit. So like with health, I feel like nobody knows anything.

But in hearing this, I was like, oh, that makes total sense. And that's how you get, you know, just like you get withdrawal pangs if you stop caffeine, the same exact thing happens with carbs. And when you know that that's what's happening, you're like, oh, okay, I just need to ride you motherfuckers out.

Like I just need to keep, I just need to hold you guys, I'll starve you guys out. And in seven days, you'll be dead and the only bacteria left will be the ones that feed, that like the stuff I want to be eating. So it's a total thing.

SPEAKER_02
Well, okay, so and back to Julian. And by the way, that's always why I wanted to start my startup called Hostage, where we just like take you and throw you in this like land and keep you in a cabin for like three weeks and just like monitor exactly

SPEAKER_04
the guaranteed weight loss program. Would you be interested in a 10 day program that would guarantee results, I will pay you $100,000 if you don't lose weight.

SPEAKER_02
Sounds good. We just give you 1400 calories a day.

SPEAKER_04
Welcome to Hostage.

SPEAKER_02
And yeah, yeah, like would you like a glass of water? Like that's all you get.

SPEAKER_04
One of your top 10 ideas. So anyway, so Julian basically, yeah, he buys it. And by the way, the ranch thought he was a restaurant because he was ordering so much fucking steak.

They were like, well, certainly you're a restaurant. Here's your like wholesale price break. And it just turns out he's just a dude.

Anyway, so he really wants to build this ranch in the middle of nowhere. Cause he's thinking about where I want to live. And then he tweeted out this thread that I love.

It's just, just search his name, Julian, and I'm building a ranch in the middle of nature. And basically he's like, you know, why am I doing this? I want to leave San Francisco. I, you know, I just think it would be amazing.

And he basically tweets out his plans. He's like, here's where I'm looking. Here's the land.

Here's how much it costs. I'm going to build this like, these like prefabbed homes. I'm going to build this podcast studio.

I'm going to have like blank, blank, blank. You like this. I know this is like right up your alley.

So what did you think about this?

SPEAKER_02
Okay. So this is in my opinion, very romanticized, incredibly not practical and it won't work in most cases. Have you ever been, you know, you live in, you lived in a city for a long time.

You now live in the Burbs, but it's still populated with people. Have you ever been by yourself for a while? Like in, in a rural area. Shoot me.

Yeah. Not horrible. It's fun for a minute.

It's great. I was just in Hawaii and it was like, this is relaxing. This is great.

SPEAKER_04
I can't, I think that you basically, you want to do it to the point where you're like, I felt the benefits and now I want to run back into society and tell everyone how awesome I am for doing this retreat from society.

SPEAKER_02
Yes. And so like, I'm reading the, the Teddy Roosevelt biography and he did the same thing. So basically his wife and mother died on the same day and it was tragic.

It was horrible. And what she, the wife died, Allison, while giving birth to his daughter. So like the most complicated day ever.

And he was like, the light of my life has gone. I cannot live anymore. Just life is done for me.

And so he went and he bailed and he lived in the badlands, which is in the Dakotas. And he said, I feel replenished. I feel wonderful, but you still got to get, he went eventually back to DC or New York and became a politician.

And I think that, I think what a lot of people overestimate is, or rather underestimate is community. So in order to make this work, I think a few people can make this work, but for nine out of 10 folks, you need peers, you need family, you need friends. Life is, I don't give a fuck if I live in the most beautiful place on earth.

If I don't have people that I can see on a regular basis who I love, it's stupid. I'd rather live poor and in a shack with people I love than in a mansion on a 50 acre, 100 acre plot of land. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_04
100% agree. I think part of his plan is to basically have a bunch of, basically guest houses, make it an awesome ranch where he'll just have this rotation of kind of friends and cool people that want to come stay. And I think that will happen, but he's, I think he's single.

So I don't, you know, if I went out there with my wife, my kids, then I think I could last a lot longer than if I went out there literally by myself. And he'd just hoping to kind of friends would come to visit. So I think that is one thing.

And I think this is a great example of you want to have this dream, but then I think you need to test it. I think you need to go live. I think he needs, he should just stop right now.

He should go somewhere for one week and just say, okay, let me go test our two weeks. Let me go spend two weeks by myself in this Airbnb in the middle of nowhere. And let me just see how I feel after two weeks.

And then let me try that again. And I know he's got the discipline because if you can eat steak only for, you know, steak and eggs only for eight months, props. But like you don't want it to feel like an endurance contest.

If you're trying to choose your lifestyle, you want it to be one that feels effortlessly awesome, not like a test of your mental fortitude, I think. So I think it's amazing. I would love to go visit, but I would not want to do this myself.

SPEAKER_02
So I've actually like done this a bunch of times. So there's a bunch of stuff that I wanted in my life. And I was able to test it on a very small scale.

And I'll give you a few examples. So for example, I wanted to retire. And so I had the opportunity a couple of years ago, I took six weeks off.

And I just took it off completely. And by the fifth week, I was like, I can't retire. I have to be around.

I have to have something to do. Another example is buying a fancy car. You can go and test these cars for, it's a lot of money.

It's $1,000 a day. But you could, testing a $200,000 car for two days is you get into it and you're like, this Ferrari is so small. I cannot drive this up and down like a driveway.

It's just gonna smack the ground and it's not fun.

SPEAKER_04
Or another example. And the fun of having versus the stress of having it is actually not a good trade.

SPEAKER_02
Now that I feel it, I know it. Another example is having a 5,000 square foot home. For the longest time, I was like, I want a 5,000 square foot house.

So I went and rented a 5,000 square foot house. I spent a lot of money. Maybe I think I did it in New York.

I rented a 5,500 square foot house. And it was like $13,000 for a month. A lot of money, no doubt about that.

But the house was way more expensive than that. And I got in this house and I was like, I cannot imagine having to fix all this crap all the time. This is exhausting.

I can't do this. I don't want this. Or I'm only using the living room, the bedroom, and this huge kitchen, which I like.

I don't need these six other bedrooms. And anyway, I think that you could actually test a lot of stuff and more people should do that. They should, you can test stuff.

SPEAKER_04
100%. Dude, so I'm, okay, I'm gonna rant for a second. Think about like in college, right? So I think there's this crazy thing in society which is like over commitment and over specialization without dabbling.

So like you're a freshman. I remember at the end of my freshman year in college, I had to commit to a major. Like dude, I just figured out like where the hell the bathroom is.

I don't know what a major is. I don't know what the other majors could be. I know that if I don't commit, I'm gonna be falling behind and off track.

You know, I'm not gonna have my credits on time. I'm not gonna know what courses to take. And I'm basically picking my career without ever even knowing what my career should be.

So forget what classes I'm gonna like. My major sort of dictates what job I'm eligible for at the end. And I think it's crazy.

And the same thing with people's like first job. They just sort of pick a career track without dabbling and figuring out what they actually might like to do. The idea of dating is amazing.

Like my parents were arranged marriage. So they, you know, they literally, my mom read an ad in the newspaper for my dad which said like, you know, a six feet tall, which is a slight lie. You know, he's 5'10.

You know, Indian, what else, engineer degree and good family. I was basically at the ad and she was like, Describe like every Indian American. Good enough.

Good enough to marry. Let's meet. And then the parents met and they're like, okay, in this one tea we're having together, this one coffee meeting we're having.

All right, cool. Done deal. See you the next time I see you, we'll be at the wedding.

And that's how they got married. And like, you know, Really? Like shocked that these marriages aren't always the best. And so that, Are they happy? No, most of it.

So I would say like any marriages have a very low divorce rate because like societally it's like there's like a taboo against getting divorce. So they just like even worse, stay together, unhappiest. What most people do and then obviously some get divorced.

But like there's a range, marriage ideas. It's not great. Now, the counterpoint would be, you know, I think in New York, there's a 53% divorce rate also.

So you know, maybe the hold dating thing doesn't work as well. So that that's that's a fair counterpoint. But I would say this idea of dating, of basically trying before you buy, is really important in life.

And these tests that you've done for yourself are super important. And I'm shocked more people don't do them. I started doing them and I'm like, wow, that's way better than this.

I'll just have this idea in my head and it'll get so real in my head. And then when I finally do it, I'm like, oh, shit, that was underwhelming. It's like, couldn't I have just sampled this beforehand and known that and not have this idea? Like, what's an example? Like, okay, I'll give you an example on the plus side.

So the example on the plus side. So I hired a chef. So I have a personal chef.

I wanted a personal chef for a really long time. How much does that cost a month? So how much does it cost me a month? It's about $3,400 a month. $3,500 maybe.

$3,500. And that includes food? That does not include the food. No, the food's on top.

That's just like the service. The service of having a private chef in my house. And by the way, worth it.

Amazing. Like, you know, fortunate to be able to afford it. But like, to me, I don't have a fancy car.

I don't even have a fancy home. But I got a housekeeper who comes, you know, three days a week and I got a private chef. And to me, that's like, that's my version of luxury.

That's like, you know, that's my version of a Lambo. It's like a lifestyle Lambo.

SPEAKER_02
So does this person, tell me everything. Does this, so I had a chef as well for a minute, but it was a little bit different. It was more like meal prep.

Does this person come and I paid way less, a fraction of that. Right.

SPEAKER_04
Well, I'm in the Bay Area too. So, you know, it's a.

SPEAKER_02
Yeah. But my guy came two days a week and they would meal prep for me. And I didn't like it.

I ended up just not using him and I made my own food. So when did this person come?

SPEAKER_04
So to do the sample idea, I first even got the idea because I got to sample it. So my previous company, Monkey Inferno, you've been there before for lunch, I think probably. The investors behind us, they were kind of like a billionaire family, the Birch family.

They had a private chef in their home, but, you know, they were out and about all day working or they'd be at the office. So their chef would just come to the office and cook for all of us. And so, you know, a company of like 20 people and he would cook this amazing spread and all of a sudden healthy food tasted good.

So immediately I was like, Holy shit, this is kind of amazing. I don't have to like go out, figure out what to eat every day. This guy just decides.

So that's one decision I don't make. He cooks healthy food and it tastes like junk food. All right, that's like, you know, wow, that's amazing.

If I just ate this for all my meals, I'd be way healthier than just my lunch. And so, so I got to sample it. That told me I want this.

And there was other things that I got to try, you know, when I was at their house or the fancy parties that they throw or fancy cars that they have, that, you know, I got to try. And I was like, I don't care about this. Good, I can scratch that off the list.

It's one less thing I want. It's one less thing I care about. And so that's just hanging out with him got me, got me to try some things that I thought I was working for and figure out what I like and don't like.

So then I tried some meal prep people. But what I figured out what I really like is somebody who comes, I don't decide what to eat. They know my, they know my life.

They know what food I like. They know what health, what level of healthiness I care about. And they just come make it fresh on the spot.

Just saying fresh food tastes way better than meal prep food. And so she comes and she, and then I also thought, I also realized, oh, this is not just about my health. Like one of the most time consuming parts of being a parent is constantly trying to feed your kid.

I like my kids like a picky eater. And so she, you know, like I'm making the three dishes for her every meal, just trying to get her to eat something that she likes. And that just takes up more time than even cooking for myself did.

So the chef cooks for me, my wife who's vegan and our baby. And so our baby now eats like way better than when we were just, you know, let's make some mac and cheese, let's warm something up. And it makes it fun to feed her because I was tired.

So she, so right now she's coming three days a week. So she comes every other day basically. And then on the weekends, we want to eat out.

So we like to go to restaurants or whatever. So we said, don't come on the weekends. And we may move it up to five days at some point.

But right now it's good basically. And it's little things like here's a green smoothie she makes every, you know, so in between meals, instead of a snack, it's she's like, oh, you want your smoothie? I'm like, oh, yeah, I do want that smoothie. Thank you.

Have you lost weight? I think so. I don't really weigh myself, but in the mirror, I look like you lost weight. I look better.

And I don't know if my weight has changed. I don't, I don't use the scale, but I just use the mirror as the scale.

SPEAKER_02
And so does your cleaner come three days a week also? And how much do you pay for that?

SPEAKER_04
160 bucks per visit, I think.

SPEAKER_02
Damn, dude, you spend a lot of money on these things. I mean, I spent a lot of money on these things. They may be extremely happy to do it, but they make like the feeling

SPEAKER_04
after the cleaners are here is like, you know, that's like a high for me. That's like I did. Well, I don't know what Molly is, but that's Molly for me.

I feel so good in my own home. It's amazing. Having food, having fresh, healthy food made.

I think that's that's a treat. That's an absolute treat for me.

SPEAKER_02
I I'm perfectly happy with what we have a cleaner who comes every two weeks. And I think we spend 120 or 100. I don't remember, but I'm also messy as fuck.

SPEAKER_04
And I have kids that they're messy as fuck. So like, you know, the house gets destroyed. You know, my sister cleans, I think, four times a day in her house, just putting putting toys away every, you know, every four hours, basically.

So it's crazy. But I don't know if people care about this. But I guess my point is trying to make is I think sampling this episode

SPEAKER_02
is already like totally ran off the rest of the go with it.

SPEAKER_04
I think sampling your lifestyle is super important. I'll give you one more story here that that helps. So you know that I did a podcast from Vegas.

I said, I was at somebody's home, you know, 15,000 square feet. Yeah, I don't even know how many. It's like 10 to 15,000 square feet.

Just it looks like a hotel, basically. And unbelievable. They they have a they have a Lambo and a Ferrari and a monster truck and like all this other cool shit.

They have all the toys. There's a batting cage in the backyard. There's, you know, like an infinity pool that looks over the city.

You know, you can see the strip. There's like everything you would want in a home. They got it.

Elevator, all the crazy shit. And and so anyways, like when I was there, I had this feeling that I don't like that I thought I had slayed this feeling. But no, it came back and it was like kind of like jealousy.

It was like I was on the way I knew it was because I was like kind of pooping, like, oh, I don't need all this. I'm happy without all this. And I was kind of like in my head, trying to like almost say why I didn't want these things, because actually I felt bad that I didn't have all these things.

Like this weird psychology thing. But the simple way of explaining it was like I felt these like little hunger pangs of envy of like, oh, I want that. And I was like, oh, that's not a good feeling.

And the shift I made was instead of feeling like, oh, you know, these are things that I don't have, but they have, right? Like it's nothing wrong with them, but just I don't have these things. And other people have them. Instead, I looked at it differently.

I was like, by the third day there, I was like, I got to shift my mind. So I'm not trying to have this jealousy feeling in my day. It's not a cool feeling for me.

So I was like, all right, what am I going to shift it to? And I said, oh, how about I look at this like I'm at I'm getting a sample platter here. So these are things I can have. These are things I can have in the next few years.

You know, things go right in my business. I can afford all these things. So why don't I feel like what it feels like to wake up in a mansion like this? Why don't I feel like what it's like to have a basketball court in a batting cage built into the home? Why don't I feel what it's like to drive this car? And now I'm all of a sudden feeling excited.

Oh, what do I get to try today? That's like, you know, I get to go try on something that I might have in the future.

SPEAKER_02
Did you drive his Ferrari?

SPEAKER_04
Yeah. So I get to test drive the stuff and feel like what, you know, what does it feel like? Do you like it? No, for me, cars are stressful. Like I don't like fancy cars are very stressful to me.

And they're kind of like uncomfortable. Like I don't really get off on it. There's probably a conversion of a car that I like, but not the like supercars.

Basically, supercars are not something I want. And so I got to figure out what do I not want? And then, oh, actually, this feels really good. It feels really good to have, you know, this home gym built into my home.

So OK, you know, why don't I do that? And, you know, why don't I go for that then? So I think that sampling is not only just an effective way to figure out what you want. It's also a cure for jealousy. Because when you're in those situations where you're jealous, switch it to thinking of it like I'm just getting to try before I buy before I have all these things, I get to sample them and figure out what exact flavor of this I'm going to want.

And then it becomes yours instead of feeling like it's theirs and you don't have it.

SPEAKER_02
I have that feeling with them. So we have this guy in the podcast a while ago, we should have him back on again. His name is Nick Bear, B-A-R-E Nick Bear.

He runs Bear Performance Nutrition or some VPN and a big YouTube channel, right? And a huge YouTube channel. This guy came out with this. He came out with this.

His content production is so freaking good. So he's got this supplement business that does like 20 or 30 million in revenue a lot. But when we had him on, it was like six million in revenue or something like that.

It wasn't like it was good, but it wasn't significant. And he created this YouTube channel. He's like good looking like yoke.

Like he's a massive dude, but he so he lifts weights and he's this muscle head, but he's really cool. And now he's into endurance sports. And so on his YouTube channel, which now when we had him on, I think it had like 200,000 subscribers now getting close to a million, 7,800,000.

He did this thing. He's got this whole team behind his YouTube channel. He's got like three or four guys working full time on it.

He released a 45 minute documentary about him running the Leadville 100. The Leadville 100 is 100 mile rates through the mountains of Leadville, Colorado. And you basically, it looked like it was like laps or something of like 15 or 20 miles.

And he had these guys at checkpoints to film him. And I was watching this guy. It was the most inspirational shit I've ever seen.

I'm going to go and buy like, I don't even know what bear nutrition sells. Because whenever I buy a weight protein, I just go to Whole Foods and I just buy like, you know, like or an Amazon. I'm purposely going to go out of my way to buy his stuff.

Have you been paying attention to Nick Bear?

SPEAKER_04
I don't know. He doesn't show up on my YouTube feed. I need to subscribe since it starts to show up in my feed.

SPEAKER_02
Dude, you got to watch this guy. It is the crazy. So he's ex military.

You're the only fitness influencer I watch. We can talk about that in a second, but he's inspired me to like take it to the ring. He is so crazy.

This guy is nuts. Like he has a video of him like deadlifting 550 pounds, which is a shit ton of weight. And then he goes and he runs a marathon in like two hours and 55 minutes, which is very, very fast.

And he's the biggest guy doing it. It's very interesting. So I've been watching this guy and I have this like pretty big sense of jealousy where I'm like, I want to be doing that.

And so that's why I'm doing this little fitness influencer shit now. And it's kind of a joke, but not really a joke. And to be honest, it's so fun, dude.

You totally have to do this. It 100% makes you accountable and makes you exercise harder. Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_04
You have to. So I sampled your gym. So I went to your house, sampled your gym.

I was like, wow, amazing. And then I called you the other day. I was like, yo, what are you using for the flooring? What are you doing for this? What are you doing for that? And gave me the, give me the blueprint because I'm turning my garage into your garage.

I'm like, that is a great, that was such an amazing feeling to work out there. I want to have that feeling on a daily basis. So, dude, it's way cheaper than you think.

I know. I didn't even take it's not even a lot of money, but it's more like, it's more of having the clear vision of what you want. And seeing yours was like, Oh, now I know what I like.

And I just have some additions, some modifications. So I'm like, Oh, my daughter, who's two, she loves to come out when I'm working out. And she loves to work out with me side by side, which is just like, she just wants to be to, she wants to do little things next to me.

So we're creating a little workout playpen where she can go in there with little foam weights and do her thing while I'm doing mine. So I'm like, okay, I'm going to craft this lifestyle to be what I want. And, um, and so like, you know, that there's something to the sampling.

I really encourage people to find a way to sample it. If you want to know what kind of home you want, go Airbnb, something before I did this chef thing, I hired a chef for one meal to cook like a kind of a dinner for like, I had some friends in town. Oh, let me hire somebody off Craigslist just to make one meal.

Like I don't want to deal with, we can go out to eat, but wouldn't it be cool if a chef came to our house and did it and like the cost is about the same of, you know, taking my friends out to a restaurant. So let me just do that at home. And it was amazing.

And so, uh, having that chef at the, at the home was like a good way to test these things. And so that's my kind of challenge to anybody who has made it through this random episode, which is like, think about the shit that you have been telling yourself you want and figure out a way to go sample it. Like in the next week, go rent the car, go hang out at someone's house, go shadow a CEO, go, you know, hire the chef for the day, do, do like the sample of it and figure out, does it make you want it 10 times more or 10 times less? Cause usually that's the reaction I have when I, when I feel it for the first time real is I want it way more or way less.

I'm curious if people are going to like this rambling.

SPEAKER_02
Um, I like this stuff, but I don't know. I wonder what, what people will enjoy. Cause I could talk about this shit all day.

I like this, this fitness crap, this building the life that you want crap. I love this stuff. Ben, Ben chime in here.

SPEAKER_04
What do you, what do you think, Ben?

SPEAKER_01
Um, I can only speak from like my perspective, which is, uh, I'm really into the charter city stuff. So that like, I really liked that and the process of stuff, I think it's going to be interesting to anyone. So it worked for me and Teddy Roosevelt.

I mean, come on, you knew that would be on my album.

SPEAKER_02
Are you going to do, dude, Teddy Roosevelt is the most prolific person I have ever read about. I've read maybe over a hundred biographies. He is likely the most active person I have ever read.

Uh, he has done so much amazing stuff. This guy's a freak. Teddy Roosevelt is a freak.

Teddy Roosevelt is a fan.

SPEAKER_04
Where is it? Where is the how to take over the world episode on Teddy Roosevelt?

SPEAKER_01
He of, uh, I would say of the people that, that people bring up that they want me to do Teddy Roosevelt is probably number two. Uh, Genghis Khan probably number one that people mentioned and Teddy Roosevelt or two. So it'll, it'll, it'll.

SPEAKER_02
Dude, Roosevelt is like, he's different than Napoleon, like Napoleon did a lot, but Roosevelt is far more eclectic. He like before he was even in politics when he was 21, he wrote a book on the Spanish American war and it was considered a textbook for decades. Um, and then he wrote a couple more books.

He, uh, uh, became, um, uh, president. Obviously that's amazing. He, um, was like this avid hunter and this Zula, Zula.

What is it when you collect animals and like, uh, describe like the, the, where they come from and things like that, like Darwin shit. He did that type of crap before he was like in his thirties, very prolific, very interesting person. You got to read about, uh, Teddy Roosevelt.

Very intriguing. What book are you reading? The rise of Ted, uh, Teddy Roosevelt.

SPEAKER_01
I think there's like three of them. There's one that came out, uh, fairly recently, it's really popular now about his trip to the Amazon, um, later in life.

SPEAKER_02
Yeah. And that was amazing. The guy was ridiculous.

He also has this book that I'm thinking about reading. This title is beautiful. It's called a strenuous life.

And so he had this phrase where he was like, so Roosevelt would like at, even when he was president every morning, he would box like fight box, like spar. He loved, and he was like, it's our, like we have to live the strenuous life where we put in effort, physical effort, and we get hurt sometimes and we struggle. He's like, we have to do that.

Otherwise you're never going to feel like a man or, or a human being. And so I've been very inspired by Teddy Roosevelt. He's a very interesting person.

SPEAKER_04
That's funny. You know, I'm, I'm listening to the Vladimir Putin episodes that you did on the, on how to take over the world. And I'm only, I'm on part one.

And I love that he was like the opposite of what you described, because when Sam describes these people, it's like, holy shit, these are just like another species. It's like a guy who's done this and this and this and this all before the age of 30. And the best part about the Putin thing was you were like, up until 30, he basically had a very sort of like average, average life.

There was nothing remarkable that would tell you that this guy's about to become what Putin ended up becoming. There was like little hints, little signs, a couple of moments, but, you know, by and large, it was like, you know, mediocre, mediocre student, you know, kind of like low level, low level, you know, spy, not, not, you know, put in this like random, random office, not in the highest level. And then that was all until 30.

And then I'm guessing it because I haven't listed a part two yet, but I'm guessing that obviously it's going to turn up and he's going to end up, you know, becoming the leader of the country. But it was so crazy to me that he was unremarkable essentially till 30. Was that surprising to you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01
And the moment that you're talking about is like, he was kind of like a mid-level operative in St. Petersburg. And I think the guy that he worked for lost an election.

So he's like out of a job and he was going to go just like start a judo gym in St. Petersburg, Russia, because he's like pretty good.

SPEAKER_04
He sounded like just like he's just like in Scranton. He's just a mid-level. He's assistant to the regional manager and then somehow becomes, you know, it's like if Dwight became Elon Musk, that's sort of like what happened with Putin, mid-level officer to like, you know, president.

SPEAKER_02
Do you think Ben that he is actually the richest person in the world?

SPEAKER_01
Um, no, I don't in so far as like, do I actually think he has like whatever, a hundred billion dollars in secret accounts? Probably not. But it's like, it kind of doesn't matter because he has access to as much money as he wants whenever he wants. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02
So he probably just doesn't have to. He like doesn't have to move all that money to his account. Does that make sense? He scares me, man.

So rich he doesn't need it in his account. He freaks me out, man. Putin scares the shit out of me.

SPEAKER_04
Sam, have you listened to this episode of the Putin one?

SPEAKER_02
There's a, there's a. Oh, I, I, dude, I, I fear him. And so I've been nervous to listen to it.

SPEAKER_04
There's a line at the beginning that I love this. Like it's like his little little anecdote. It's like he was kind of like not a great student in school and just like wasn't very interested.

He's like, he's the teacher's like, he's smart, but he's not that interested in school. And so the teacher tells his dad, like, you know, he's not living up to, he's not living up to his potential. And the dad, like as like as a Russian dad would, is like most most Russian shit ever.

He goes, so what do I kill him? Or what do I do? That was the response. So what should I do? Kill him? I was like, wow, those Russian thing ever.

SPEAKER_02
Dude, he freaks me out, man. A lot of the Russians scare me. That's kind of like why I like to be in the UFC is because the Russians like freak me out.

They are on another level. They're on another level. There's levels to it.

SPEAKER_04
Let's just put it this way. One level and never seen a Russian doing a podcast. We're Russians don't do podcasts.

They live a harder life than us. They're doing more and more tough shit than sitting in front of a microphone.

SPEAKER_02
Dude, I've never even seen a Russian smile. Like they don't like they don't. I think I'm almost positive.

SPEAKER_04
They like so smiling and if you saw a Russian and he winked at you, what would happen to anybody?

SPEAKER_02
There's this comedian who like talks about like he's like, you know, like one time I was going to this bad neighborhood and I was nervous and I written this guy's a white guy and I was nervous. And then he goes, someone came up to me and talked to me and asked me like a question that I thought that they're just like trying to like trick me into like, you know, testing me to see where they're going to rob me or not. And he goes immediately.

I just spoke in a Russian accent and immediately they were afraid, afraid of me. He walked away and he's like, this is my defense mechanism. He just says, of course I know, like, I mean, it's like horrible.

Russian act. Like, do I know where I am? Of course. Do you like it? Like, it's like scary thing to this guy.

He like walks away from him entirely. And that's the defense mechanism from now on. It's just speaking a Russian accent.

SPEAKER_04
That's amazing. If I do that in the Indian accent, I just get beat up on the spot. So it doesn't work the same.

All right, we should wrap it up. I go ahead.

SPEAKER_01
Are we saying Ben? Cool. I was just, I was going to say something. I was going to stick up for the Russians a little bit.

I visited Russia with my wife. She speaks a little bit of Russian. And my experience was like, they are very much like that.

Like they're kind of gruff and like a little scary, whatever. But there were a couple of times where like, like my phone wasn't working and like, we needed to get to the train station in an hour or else like we were going to miss our flight and everything was going to go wrong. And like, people were more willing to go out of their way and like literally walk with us for like five blocks, make sure we found the exact right spot than anywhere else I've ever been.

So it's like they have this very tough exterior, but once you get past it, they're like very

SPEAKER_02
and obviously we're joking. If you are Russian, we have love for you. But we're I thought we were complimenting the whole time.

SPEAKER_04
I was saying don't poison Sam. Don't feel sad. I was saying how badass they are.

Everything I said, I stand behind as a compliment. You know, even just the cities, dude, St. Petersburg.

Do we have anything on the level of the word Moscow, St. Petersburg, these just sound tougher than American cities, right?

SPEAKER_02
Like whenever I hear the word the Kremlin or Kremlin, I'm like, I freak out.

SPEAKER_04
Yeah, exactly. Kremlin, Gary word, bro. We have the Tampa Bay.

It's not comparable. What we have, you know, it's just they're on another level of toughness. Like Denver.

Can you imagine? Let's just put it. Just put Denver up against Moscow.

SPEAKER_03
America is just not where it's at. All right, I got to go.

SPEAKER_04
I'm just before I get canceled for for for praising the Russians.

SPEAKER_02
All right, see you.

SPEAKER_00
We'll see what happens with this one.