SPEAKER_04
All right, everyone, what's happening? This is Sam. So on today's pod, I did something very selfish. So I've got these two friends.

One is named Nick Bear. So you probably have seen Nick on Instagram or on YouTube. He's got millions of followers.

And he owns this company called VPN Bear Performance Nutrition. They do something like $60 million a year in sales. So he's a really successful entrepreneur, but he's like a fitness fanatic.

So he looks like a bodybuilder, but he's run some marathon in like two hours and 39 minutes, which is a freakish time, but it's also freakish considering how big he is. And then we have Sahil Bloom, who's another buddy of mine. He's really popular on social media on Twitter.

He's a writer. You probably have seen him all over the place. And I just nerded out on fitness with these guys.

We also talked a little bit about business. So we asked the typical questions like, where do you guys spend your money? How much you spend each month? Where do you like to invest your money? We talked about their companies and how they're growing. And we did a lot of business stuff, but most of this was about fitness.

And I just asked them all the fitness questions that I had, I had a bunch of listeners send me questions. And I think it was a great time. And it was really fun to learn about what these guys are doing for training, hopefully inspire you.

So anyway, check out the pot.

SPEAKER_00
Yeah. I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to.

I put my all in it like no days off on a road. Let's travel together.

SPEAKER_04
Can I ask you, so I tweeted out that you guys were coming on. And I got a bunch of questions. They range from personal finance, fitness, business, all types of stuff.

I want to ask you guys both a couple of questions. I'm going to start with one that sounds like the hardest, but I actually think it's the easiest because you answer this all the time. And I'll preface this by saying, I've seen your father in videos.

I've seen your brother in videos. And I've seen you in real life. And so I think I know what the answer is, because I know the genetics that you come from.

But someone said, generally curious, how can Nick be natural given his performance? Please press him on this. And so you constantly get asked if you're natural. I know you've answered it constantly, but just humor me for, because this was a very, a lot of people ask this question.

SPEAKER_02
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SPEAKER_01
I am natural. And I used to address these call outs and questions and claims all the time because I would get defensive in it. Like it was all the time.

It's been like that since I started creating content. I even went to the extent of sharing blood work every month. I was going to get in blood work every month and I would share it only in my videos or in my bulk and my cut.

And people like, oh, he's faking it. He's finding workarounds. I'm like, guys.

So I finally have gotten to a point where I'm just over addressing the questions and the claims and the hate around it. And I'm just gonna do my thing. Like even on this last marathon, people were like, he's using EPO.

What is that? Like blood doping. I'm like, what amateur athlete you know that's running marathons, run marathons is taking EPO and blood doping.

SPEAKER_04
But then you're like, how do I get that? Does anyone have a guy?

SPEAKER_01
I'm like, yeah, I'm like, who, like, where do you get EPO?

SPEAKER_04
I don't even know where you'd get that. I mean, I've seen you in real life. You just have, I think you're just a freak genetically.

And I would be honored if someone asked if I was on a bunch of stuff. That would make me feel wonderful.

SPEAKER_03
Dude, also by the way, like my thing with this always is like, I have a few friends who everyone says this about they're like, oh, they, you know, definitely not natural. And I just know for a fact that that person has just outworked me in the gym on a daily basis for the last like 10 fucking years, excuse my language. And not by like a ton, but by a little bit every single day for 10 years.

And that adds up to something insane. And it looks like a totally different human being. So like when I see a dude that has way bigger shoulders than me or way bigger chest, like, I know that they probably did that extra set or they did the extra two reps that I was just like, oh, six is good and stopped.

And so like, I just, I think it's such a cop out when people freak out about like, oh, are you natural or not?

SPEAKER_04
But the reality is like, sometimes they don't because genetics are real. Like for example,

SPEAKER_01
genetics are real, but like genetics are like definitely a real thing. Like the bear genetics are solid.

SPEAKER_04
Dude, your dad ran like a sub six mile. I don't remember what age he is, but he was some, you know, he was a grown man and he still was huge. Like you got, that I saw your brother, your brother looked like he competed in the strong man games.

I mean, you guys are just huge.

SPEAKER_01
Yes. My dad's 60. My uncle, his brother's 57.

If you saw both of them with their shirts off after running, they've still both run marathons, half marathons. I mean, six pack abs, chiseled arms and shoulders. They don't take anything.

They're not on TRT or any of that stuff. They're just like farm boys who grew up in central Pennsylvania milking cows and, and they were like, hey,

SPEAKER_04
well, dude, listen to this. So Sahel texted me. I, I, I nerded out with them.

I go, dude, I just hung out with Nick bear. And, and it was amazing. And Sahel was like, yeah, he's, you know, he looks great, whatever, but how tall is he? And I was like, I'm pretty sure he's my height or just like an inch shorter.

So he's pretty tall. And I sent him this picture. And I remember in that photo, I think, I think, Nick, you were at like your weakest.

You were about to run a marathon. I was at my strongest and our squats and bench were like almost the same. I think you did five pounds ahead.

And you just like looked so much better. And, you know, we were like, this sucks. That like we're kind of comparable, I guess, in terms of strength, but like he just, he just has it.

He just has it. Like you just, you just have whatever it is that you just, you look good. I appreciate that.

Genetics are real. Ari's laughing at me.

SPEAKER_03
Tan helps him. You got, you say him, you got to get a tan, man. You're too pale to, you're too pale to have good looking abs.

SPEAKER_04
That's genetics, man. It's, that's another genetics photo. He just has it.

And so I don't know. Everyone, everyone did the comments that are going to make fun of me that I'm just like flirting with you. But, you know, I'm just saying what people think.

SPEAKER_01
Genetics are a real thing. You can take person A, person B, different genetics, same work ethic, same diet, same training program. And you're not going to get the same results.

So people, people send me messages all the time. They're like, I eat exactly what you eat. I train exactly the way you train.

I run exactly the same miles as you, but you don't look the same. Well, yeah, because genetically we are not the same. Like we have different DNA.

So it's going to have different results. It doesn't mean you shouldn't eat right and train and try to do your best. But like I will give, I will give genetics the credit they deserve.

But also I am one of the most consistent people I know in terms of training and recovery and diet. Like my diet is dialed in. I still enjoy myself.

Like me and my wife will go for dinner. I'll get some drinks. I'll like order the whole menu and try everything.

I love food. I love big foodie. But my diet 90% of the time is so regimented and dialed in.

I'm eating my meals when I'm not hungry. I'm eating my meals when I know I need nutrition to fuel workouts. Like it is for me a lifestyle that I truly love and embrace.

SPEAKER_04
Are you like that, Sahel? Are you as dialed in, do you think?

SPEAKER_03
Yeah. I mean, I'm just like, I probably have a similar wiring to you, Nick. I kind of have like a obsessive personality.

And so when I commit to something or dive in on it, it's going to piss off everyone around me. Because I'm like, if we were traveling during the day and I get home at 10 PM, but I had a six mile run to do, I'm going out at 10 PM and have to go hit the run. And it's not a question.

And like if I get home at midnight, but I'm the type of person that wakes up at 4 and gets in my cold plunge, I'm waking up at 4 and getting in my cold plunge. And I feel the same way as you in general on the genetics thing, although I will say like when people say, oh, I do the same workouts as you, I run the same miles, I did the same thing, I call bullshit. Because I just don't like, I've trained super hard my whole life.

But there are people that I just know have trained harder than me. Because I know, like in the back of my mind, I know for sure that like I could have probably done two more reps on something. But I like was working out on my own in my home gym.

And I just like took it easy. And that two reps compounded over five years makes a difference to the point on like time being a lever. And so I'm honest enough with myself on some things where like with running, I post all my stats.

And so there's no hiding, right? Like if I'm going to post my chorus, you know, screenshot or whatever on my Instagram from any run workout, I can't hide from whether or not I put in the right amount of effort on that workout. But lifting, I can totally hide from it. Like I'm not, you can't see all the stats exactly on what I did and how many reps I hit or whatever it was.

So it's also just like the accountability that comes with sharing things publicly on your progress that I feel like for you, like you've been basically doing that for what six, seven, eight years, like you've been showing your process in public and the accountability that comes from that, that people are out there waiting like, Oh, what's next next thing? What's he going after? Is he going to hit his goal? That adds a whole lot of fire. Like when you're running sim and you're struggling mile 20 and you're like, this isn't for me. Like I have a million people out there that want to see me get this 239 done.

So I'm going to go do it.

SPEAKER_01
I mean, that's, that's why we included a small clip in the video after that race was over. But that's why these, when you hit your goal in a race or you hit your goal in anything, it feels so good when you hit it because you know the work that went in. And all I kept saying after I got across that finish line at CIM, I kept saying, man, I'm so fucking proud of that.

I'm so proud of that one. Because like, you know all the work that goes into it, the early mornings, hitting your workouts, making sure you hit your, your paces, making sure you fueled properly the night before those big workouts. And when I was like mile 20, I knew I was, I was running sub 240.

The guy, I just knew I was on pace. I was like, I can hold on for the six miles. And I could feel this lump just like forming my throat.

It's getting emotional. So I was thinking, man, all this work, like this is why I did it. I'm holding in 605 paces at mile 20 with six miles left, like home stretch.

And when you finally hit that goal, and it's because of the work you put in, like there is nothing that replaces that.

SPEAKER_03
My, my dad and I have been really close my whole life. And I played baseball in college, Nick, in case, in case we hadn't talked about that. And when I had to retire, cause I was hurt, the hardest thing was telling my dad, cause so much of our relationship had been built around the sport and built around, you know, him coming to all my practices, taking me to all my lessons, all that stuff over the years.

And he told me at the time, like, I don't care. I'm going to be there to cheer you on and whatever your next thing is in life. And at my marathon, he surprised me and flew out for it.

And I remember like those last six miles, I was hurting so, so bad. And all I was thinking the whole time was like, I got to get to my dad. He's at the finish line.

He's there waiting for me. And when I crossed the finish line and I had done it, I'd gone sub three, he was standing there. And I like broke down completely.

I like all of the emotion that you hold in from that, you know, from trying to get to something when like struggling through it, hitting your goal, that emotion, like it's completely unparalleled, like nothing I've ever experienced in life, just that, that rush.

SPEAKER_01
I think it's why people keep signing up and doing races or signing up and committing to hard things is because when you finally accomplish it, it's like, I referenced this part of this book all the time because I think it's so applicable, but in Tim Grover's book, Winning, he talks about achieving your first win. And when you achieve that first win, no matter what it is, it builds this little ounce of confidence. So then you set out to achieve another win, but that win is larger and more ambitious and it requires more work, more effort.

But when you finally get it, it builds more confidence. And you keep applying this thing over years and years and years, and you keep pushing out what that win is and could be through the process of succeeding and failing and winning and losing. You build this massive amount of confidence where you finally get to a point thinking, oh, I can actually do whatever I wanna do.

It's a really powerful position to be in.

SPEAKER_03
That's why I always say there's no such thing as a loser who wakes up at 5 a.m. and works out because it is so hard to do. And if you are losing in life and you're not happy with where you are, get up early and work out for two weeks.

SPEAKER_04
Dude, I hate when you say that. You piss me off so much when you say that because I get out of bed at seven or eight, but that'll be doing stuff until 1 a.m. Whenever you see that, I feel so guilty.

SPEAKER_03
But I'm not saying it on the other end that you can't win. I'm saying if you're not happy with your position in life, one of the biggest reasons is that you need to change your self-identity. You need to start identifying as a winner.

Exactly what Nick said. Like you need to create evidence that proves to yourself that you're a winner. And waking up early and working out is the easiest way to do that.

And it still sucks, but if you do that for a week, you immediately are like, oh, wow, I can do that. That's one hard thing that I do. I'm like, you start to change your brain chemistry around who you are as a person.

SPEAKER_04
Dude, I feel so shitty. I'll wake up, I'll look at Instagram, and I'll be like, all right, I just got up at eight, and then I see Nick post, and it's like, I think on Saturday or something, it's like, dude, he just ran eight miles.

SPEAKER_03
He already ran 72 miles at a 615 pace.

SPEAKER_04
He'll, like his Instagram post, I'm like, shit. And fed his daughter a great meal. Yeah, like he does all this from even away, but in my head, I'm like, that bitch is going to bed at nine though.

I'm gonna fuck him up between 10 and what I am.

SPEAKER_01
I am a morning person. I am not a night owl by any means. But now my daughter's born and she's getting older.

If I don't wake up at five and work out, there's a chance that it might not get done. So right now we're going through this sleep regression where she's waking up at the oddest times and screaming her head off in the night. So last night, woke up middle of the night, gave her a bottle, put her down.

She didn't want me to leave her room. So I ended up sleeping the rest of the night next to her crib. My alarm went off at five.

I was like, all right, here we go. Went downstairs, went through my routine, went out for my run.

SPEAKER_04
There's nothing that makes me more sick to my stomach than morning air. Let me ask you guys a quick question. This will be, it's met for Nick, but I want to hear your answer too.

Nick covers all fitness and diet stuff extensively on his channel, but I want to know his monthly burn. So what he spends his money on and where he puts his money, invests his money outside of BPM.

SPEAKER_01
So investing wise, at this point in my life, I haven't gotten to a point where I have any personal interest in investing. So I just hire a financial advisor and he takes care of all of my investments for me. Maybe at some point I'll actually be curious and explore that curiosity, but like, I work with a guy.

SPEAKER_04
We make a budget.

SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I'm just like, take this money, put it where you think it's gonna make me some money. Other than that, I mean, most of my money I'm spending is either going towards my mortgage, investing back into the business, my personal brand, and mainly food, to be honest. Like me and my wife.

SPEAKER_04
How much do you spend per month on food?

SPEAKER_01
Just groceries, maybe like, it's hard to say, cause we'll do like one big grocery haul a week. Then I go like every other day to the grocery store. I'm going like these exclusive like butcher shops here in Nashville.

Maybe I spend $2,000, $2,500 a month on groceries, but then we're going out to dinner and like, when we go out to dinner, it's, we want every appetizer, every entree, we're gonna sample stuff, get a few cocktails. Like that's our thing is we love experiences like that. And we'll do some big vacations every year.

Like I'm not going out and buying a lot of materialistic things right now. It's more so on experiences.

SPEAKER_03
So you haven't gotten on the no alcohol train, Nick?

SPEAKER_01
Nope. To be honest, I really have no interest on the no alcohol train. Like I'm not a big drinker, but like if me and my wife are going to date night on Thursday cause Thursday is our date night night, I'll get one drink, maybe two drinks, but I've really, really never drink over two drinks ever.

SPEAKER_03
Wait, do you drink saw hell? I'm the same way as Nick. Like I think like when it enhances the experience with the person you're with, I love it. And then I just, I've cut all like drink by myself at home

SPEAKER_01
out of my life. Yeah, I don't do any drinking by myself, but like if I'm with a group of people and we're having like an old fashioned or open a bottle of wine, I do think it enhances the experience and conversation is always good and it lightens the mood a little bit and it allows you to relax.

SPEAKER_04
What's your answer to that question? What do you do? You do it, your money, the same thing I do. You just are in Vanguard index, right?

SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I mean, we were like, I was much more fun with my money when I was in my private equity days. Cause then it was like, I don't know, it was just like free wheeling in my twenties doing whatever the hell. And then we had a kid and I was like, I should probably start just being really boring with this.

And I feel like you influenced me on this. Like we're in this group chat all together with a bunch of absolute degenerates and they all like sling their money into the most degenerate stuff. And they're always texting the thread, like this is the best opportunity.

SPEAKER_04
They'll like buy like a million dollars of aluminum or a million dollars of some, some shit that I'd never even heard of.

SPEAKER_03
And without fail, by the way, like six months later, it's at its all time low. Like this thing just absolutely tanks.

SPEAKER_04
Yeah, it's a little short stuff or whatever. I don't even know what did they do, but it's like these terminology that I don't even understand.

SPEAKER_03
I mean, it goes back to like the fundamental thing is like, you should spend more time figuring out how to increase your income versus like what your returns are investing from the vast majority of people because that's a much bigger lever for your longterm financial wealth.

SPEAKER_01
That's what I did for a while. I just, I just focused on how to make more money, how to build revenue streams. And then I got to a point where like, I was finally ready to start investing and I was able to invest or put away a lot of money a month that I didn't need to spend or have liquid.

SPEAKER_03
Yeah, and it's just like, I just like to not have to think about where that is though. Like, yeah, I do that too. I just want it to sit in like, I basically want to just track an index and just go sit there.

To the burn question Sam, we probably spend like, I don't know, 20, 30 a month or something like that all in on everything. And groceries probably similar to, similar to Nick, we probably spend three to five a month on food.

SPEAKER_04
I don't even know, I don't know what my monthly spend is at the moment, but maybe 20, but I can see why New York would be significantly higher. But I-

SPEAKER_03
You're about to get on the Northeast grind, right?

SPEAKER_04
Yeah, I'm thinking about moving up there. And I'm looking at the difference in prices. And like, it's pretty meaningful compared to Texas.

Yeah. I think I'm going to the city. So my in-laws live in Manhattan and I frankly hate Manhattan.

I like Brooklyn, but I have a newborn. And I think that we will likely do the most bougie thing on earth, but there's a town called the Westport Connecticut. It's next to Greenwich Connecticut.

So you could say, I'm going to move to Greenwich Connecticut, which is like, Clegg, tennis courts and white skirts and shit like that. But I think we're going to, yeah. But we, like, I'm testing it out.

So I rented a place for a few weeks in late January just to see what it's like. And I'm looking at what the rent is in like a comparable home to where I am now because I don't want to buy at the moment. It's like 20 grand a month in rent.

I mean, it's just like crazy.

SPEAKER_03
So- The biggest reason, by the way, that Sam's not saying for why he's moving here is because it's like 20 minutes from me. And we have a long-term plan of my son, Roman and his daughter, Naomi, starting to build the par bloom empire here. So we need to like start cultivating it early

SPEAKER_04
in their young years. Yeah, I'm okay with that. We're just planning ahead.

SPEAKER_02
All right, I want to take a quick break to tell you about another podcast you maybe should check out. It's called Imperfect Action and it's hosted by Steph Taylor. It's brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network.

This is a podcast all about marketing. And Steph is sharing the wisdom that she's learned from seven plus years of marketing trial and error as a business owner. Her approach is kind of a, let's see what happens mindset.

And she'll share the results with listeners. She has a bunch of cool episodes, one that you could check out is five things I'd never do in my business as an online business strategist. And in this episode, she's sharing five things that she no longer does as a strategist and she covers why waiting till your idea is perfect before putting out of the world, doesn't mean it's going to be perfect for your audience.

So check it out Imperfect Action by Steph Taylor. Go ahead and listen to Imperfect Action wherever you get your podcasts. Now back to this episode.

SPEAKER_04
Let me ask you guys another question. This is a two-parter. So what do most people get wrong about health and fitness? What makes you wanna, Nick, what makes you wanna throw your computer out the window when people say it online? And the second thing is, would love an honest assessment of time requirements and what's the best bang for your buck for workouts? Because a lot of us listening are entrepreneurs and we don't have a ton of time.

So what's like the best bang for your buck? So that's a two-parter.

SPEAKER_01
I think I can answer both probably in one answer. I think most people think that they need to spend like an hour running a day and an hour strength training a day. So everyone thinks they have to spend like two hours training a day.

I think you could easily split that 45 minutes to an hour a day, split between strength and endurance training and get like a really, really solid workout. But I think you have some sort of, you have to have some sort of level of cardiovascular conditioning as well as strength into your programming.

SPEAKER_04
When you say cardiovascular, do you mean like hit like a 60 minute berries? Or do you mean like a berries boot camp class, something like that or a body weight thing? Or do you mean walking or do you mean zone two steady pace stuff?

SPEAKER_01
I'd say it's a mixture between zone two, zone three. Because most people to be honest, aren't spending their time in zone two. Zone two is actually like super low.

SPEAKER_04
Which is like 130 beats per minute for like a 30 year old.

SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it's low. And most people are not doing any zone two training.

SPEAKER_04
So I like to refer to- What's the benefit of zone two though? Aerobic base building. But what's that mean for, does that make me live longer? Does that make me less likely to have a heart attack? What's it do?

SPEAKER_01
All those things helps cardiovascular health. It helps build your aerobic foundation so that you can utilize oxygen more efficiently. Like you're not gonna go run a sub three hour marathon by just doing speed work.

You need that aerobic base building where your body is learning how to utilize the oxygen at a more effective and efficient rate by then using fuel sources appropriately alongside of. So like I'd say a split between, you probably want just talking about cardiovascular conditioning. 70 to 80% of that training being your aerobic zone.

Whether that zone two, zone three, which is like lighter. Say you're walking, hiking, jogging, something like that. And then 20 to 30% of your cardiovascular conditioning is more hit.

You go do a berries boot camp. You can go do like a, my wife does soul cycle, like a soul cycle class, hop on your Peloton, go do some sprints, speed workout, something like that, where the heart rate is getting elevated, lactate threshold type stuff. So if you split your cardiovascular training between aerobic zones and some high intensity interval training, and then you have compound movements, strength training, you're doing some heavier movements, working with free weights, barbells, machines, stuff like that.

You don't need to spend two hours every day. You can spend 45 minutes to an hour, you know, four days a week, five days a week. I personally love the train.

So I'm working out every day a week doing something to move my body.

SPEAKER_04
For strength training, what do you say? Is like, do you tell people like, do the five by five? Or like, what's your suggestion? Just squat, deadlift, bench, what do you do?

SPEAKER_01
I mean, there's a lot of different ways to approach it. Like right now, I personally enjoy the push pull leg split, which is a three day split that you can do three workouts a week, or you can do six workouts a week. So like a push day would be all pushing movements.

It'd be chest focused, shoulders, triceps, pushing being upper body. And then a pull day would be back, biceps, movements like rows, all upper body again. And then your lower day is lower body, legs, quads, hamstrings, glutes.

I like starting every strength workout with some warmup movements, and then going into a heavy working compound movement exercise like a barbell squat, you do a deadlift, you do a hex bar deadlift, bench press or dumbbell, chest press, and then having some accessory movements alongside of that to support the development of the muscles that you're utilizing for those big compound movements. So that's the way I like to approach cardio vascular and then strength training. I don't personally like to mix the two, like the crossfit approach.

I've never fallen in love with that. Like when I'm strength training, I like strength training. And when I'm doing my cardio, I like cardio, but I don't like like doing them together.

I like when they're separate and distinct and separated. Now, moving on to, I think we're like, what irks me about the fitness space? I actually made a post about this yesterday because everyone going into a new year is gonna have new training and diet goals. And everyone thinks that there's this new thing that they're gonna do that's gonna change their life, it's gonna change their body, it's gonna change their health.

So January 1st starts, people are thinking, I need to do something new. What should I do? I'm gonna do carnivore. Now I'm gonna do keto.

I'm gonna go strictly bodybuilding. No, I'm gonna just like just gonna run. So people go to these extremes thinking it's like the magic pill they haven't tried yet that's gonna unlock this hidden potential that was just disguised by everything else they were doing previously.

And the reality is that like that's not going to change anything if it does, like the changes are incremental. But what makes this compounding change in your life and your fitness as your health is just being consistent with eating better, drinking more water, moving your body. That's why everyone's talking about getting in more steps.

When you're getting in more steps, you're just being more active, going to the gym on a regular consistent basis. It's creating habits and routines in your life that help you facilitate these healthy habits on a consistent and regular routine.

SPEAKER_04
Sean was telling me that he was talking or he saw the guy who started a slice, it's like a pizza app. He was like between January 1st and January 11th, our sales slump. And he goes, on January 12th, that's national quitting day.

And he goes, we see all time high sales for people ordering pizza because everyone from their New Year's resolution is giving in on January 12th. That's where it ends.

SPEAKER_01
11 days, that's wild.

SPEAKER_03
We owned a ton of Planet Fitnesses back in my PE days. And that like first 10 days of the year is like rainmaker season. Like you're just sitting there just like watching the fees pour in like praying to the rain gods for all the money that's coming in.

And then inevitably those people just don't end up going to the gym. It's like, yeah. They still pay.

Yeah, they still buy. Dude, Planet Fitness basically the possible.

SPEAKER_02
They see the Planet Fitness business model.

SPEAKER_03
Dude, they begin to get a business model. That's their business model. Yeah, and you get like 10,000 members for a gym and maybe like, you know, 5, 10% of them actually like regularly use it so the equipment doesn't have to get refreshed that often.

It's like, I mean, it's an incredible business model.

SPEAKER_04
All right, here's a question for Sahil. So we didn't even mention this, but Sahil, you mentioned that you were a baseball player. I was a runner all through high school and college.

The baseball players were usually the douches who made fun of the runners because of our shorts. And about a year ago, you got into running. You made all these grand claims about these times that you were going to run.

You said you were going to break 18 and the 5k. You're going to break through. I was like, you're an idiot, dude.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Turns out you were completely right. You nailed all of it.

You crushed it and running. And someone asked what the biggest, so at this point, by the way, you're a pretty like, you're like a pretty successful runner for like in the weekend category, in the weekend warrior category. You're like top in that category, which sounds like a left handed compliment.

That wasn't supposed to be that. It was, that was a compliment. I take that as good.

That was a compliment. Someone said, what's the biggest surprise Sahil's learned from getting more into running?

SPEAKER_03
Honestly, it goes back to what you said. Like when I was in high school, like I thought runners were nerds. And in my mind, it was like the nerdiest sport.

Like I couldn't imagine running or like being into, I was like, oh, it's not a team sport. Like it's not, it doesn't seem hard, whatever. And I have developed unbelievable respect for endurance athletes and for runners from having gone through this because, I mean, a few reasons.

First off, the training is so many hours and so monotonous. And you have to fall in love with the long, slow runs. Like, you know, in baseball, it was all intensity.

So you can get excited about, you know, like a really fast sprint, you know, I was a pitcher. So like a bullpen session or whatever. But with running, like, if you're gonna be a marathoner, you have to love the 22 mile at a like 830 pace, just zero fun.

Like you have to fall in love with that and be willing to do that over and over and over again in order to become a great amateur or to become elite, you know, like on next level and above. And you have to do it consistently over a long period of time. And then the second one is just like, the mental fortitude to pull through a race is badass.

Like it hurts so bad. I mean, I would argue that the 5K is the most painful. Like I did, so my PRs were the 257 marathon, which was painful, but in like a, your legs are cramping kind of way where you just need to like grit your teeth to the finish.

I ran the 459 mile, which honestly didn't hurt that bad because it was too short to hurt. Like it was just, it was over before it could really start to hurt. It was like you're breathing really fast, but didn't hurt that bad.

But the 5K, which I ran 1752 was like excruciating pain. Absolutely like the last five laps of that were the most miserable experience maybe of my life. Just like past your lactate threshold, awful.

And the mental fortitude that runners have and that endurance athletes have to grind through that. I now like, I no longer think runners are nerds. I think it is legit badassery.

And especially when it's like a runner that has body weight on them, I think it's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01
Well, the runner has evolved over the years too. Like now running has become so popular in the past couple of years.

SPEAKER_04
Do you think it's because of people like you? I mean, I think that you've created like a huge trend of these like it's now macho to be a runner.

SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I do think that like COVID and the pandemic definitely contributed to a lot of that where gyms were closed down. And this is why a lot of my content actually started growing is because I was pumping out running content for like a year and a half before the pandemic hit. And then pandemic hits, all these gyms close.

People have nowhere to work out and train. And they eat for their physical health but also their mental health. So people start running and looking for running content and my content blew up during that time because everyone's looking for how to run, especially people who are focused on strength now transitioning and evolving towards running.

But I mean, I think running has become cooler because there's a different look to running now. Like you can carry more weight. You can look like a bodybuilder.

You can look like a strength athlete. And there's these different parts of running that exists. Like the ultra scene has come up and I didn't know what ultra running was years ago.

And you have like these bad ass disruptive races. Like have you guys heard of the speed project? No, what's that? No. So the speed project is like this underground race that happens and you start in LA and then it goes to Las Vegas.

There's no spectators. There's no rules. You just get there as fast as possible and it's a relay race.

So you have a team of I say like maybe six people. I think it's like 300 miles and someone has to be running all the time. Oh, shit.

But it's like super disruptive, really like aggressive in your face, look and feel with bad ass. And then you have races. Like have you guys heard of the Barkley marathons? No, what are these? Dude, you guys need to watch this documentary like tonight.

It's called Where Dreams Go to Die. Oh, I have seen this. And this race happens in Tennessee.

It's, I think there's five loops and it's run by this guy named Laz. And you can't have a GPS watch. You don't have like any sort of sense of where the route is.

You're given a map and the map has points on it. There's no trail and you're given a bib number. So say your bib number is 13.

On this map, you have to go find all these points before you come back to the checkpoint. And at each point on the map is a book and you have to pull out the corresponding page with your bib number and bring it back to Laz after each loop to be able to go out and start again. And I think there were like six years where no one finished, no one won.

SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it's like 15 runners in 38 years. Dude, that sounds like a pain in the butt.

SPEAKER_04
I'm not trying to learn how to read maps. I just want to look good naked.

SPEAKER_03
Like, by the way, like running to Nick's point, running has definitely changed in public perception. Like I just more and more now I'm like, I used to think, oh, okay, lifting, like deadlifting to me. I'm like, oh, it's so primal, deadlifting.

Like you got to pick a car up off of your wife or off of your kid. Like you got to get it up off of them in order to save their life. And now I add running to that.

Or I'm like, if you can't go run like super fast to go call for help when someone's in trouble, that's super primal to me. Like you got to pick the car up and then you got to go run two miles to get help from like the nearest aid station.

SPEAKER_04
We had Scott Galloway on. Nick Scott Galloway is just like big house entrepreneur or whatever. And he said something that was brilliant.

He's like a poet. He's really good with words. And he said, he goes, my fitness regime, I want to be able to kill and eat most everyone in a room or outrun them.

And I was like, that's great. I love that. That sounds like a very practical way to exercise.

I enjoy that.

SPEAKER_03
Have you seen Theo Vaughn on Joe Rogan talking about who he would eat in a plane crash? If you haven't seen it, it's like one of the funniest Theo Vaughn clips I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_04
Let me, all right, I'll ask one or two more. Someone asked, do you guys religiously stick to your programming? And do you ever create the programming yourself?

SPEAKER_01
It really depends on, for me, what I'm training for. If I have a very specific goal, then my training program is specialized to get to that specific goal. So for my marathon prep, working with Jeff Cunningham, like he would give him my workouts for the week.

And I would hit those workouts to a T.A. I wouldn't miss or skip anything. I mean, there's been times where Jeff has accidentally sent me my workouts with wrong paces.

And I'll look at him like, oh, shit, that seems fast. And I go out and hit him. He's like, what are you doing? I'm like, you sent this over to me.

He's like, oh, that's a typo. So like, if you send the program when I'm in a prep, I'm doing whatever you tell me to do. But outside of that, I have a lot of flexibility.

Like today I woke up and I was thinking, how does my body feel? How far do I wanna run? I went and ran 10 miles. Sometimes in the middle of the run, like two to three miles in, I decide how far I'm gonna run based off my feel. That's called auto regulation.

So you adjust your training programming based off your recovery and how you're feeling and how well you slept and all those things. So a lot of my training now is flexible, but it's not as rigid because I don't have a specific competition goal at the moment.

SPEAKER_03
What about you, Sahil? I need someone else to write the programs for me. Otherwise I don't take them seriously and I need to pay for them. I've found because when I pay for something, I take it way more seriously.

So my marathon training, I had no program. I was just running with my neighbor, Brian Mazza, who's also a, I know Nick knows him also. He's like a fitness influencer and personality.

That was really into hybrid training as well. So I started running with him, had no program. And then I got connected on text with Nick and I was like, Nick, I wanna run a sub three hour marathon.

What's a workout I should do? And Nick replied and was like, try doing this. And it was, I don't think I'd run over like 16 miles at the time, by the way. And Nick replied and said, 22 mile run.

It was six miles easy to warm up. And then it was four rounds of three at 6.30 with one at seven, 10 float.

He was like, if you can do that, you'll feel good about being able to run sub three. And I had never done, I mean, I had not come close to that. But that weekend I had the same thing as what you said with your trainer, Nick.

We're like, I was like, all right, I gotta go do that, I guess. And so I went out and hit that. And then I started following Nick's marathon program as a result that got me through it.

SPEAKER_04
Wow. I do the same thing, by the way. I've got a guy that does my programming here in Austin.

His name's Jesse at Central Athlete. And it's expensive. I think I pay $400 a month.

I do everything that I'm told because I'm paying money for it. And if I won't take it seriously, if I'm doing it, or I wouldn't go, my intensity would be lower. I'd be like, dude, I can't do this.

It's like, well, Jesse told me I have to do it. Therefore I will do it. All right, last question.

SPEAKER_03
You get nutrition coaching too, Sam.

SPEAKER_04
I get nutrition coaching. Yeah, I use my body tutor. It's basically a service.

When I was really into it, I would call them for five minutes every single day. And they would be like, all right, what's the plan today? You have a quarterly plan. You're like, I wanna lose weight, gain weight.

I don't wanna eat this. I do wanna eat this, whatever. And there's like, all right, what's your plan today in order to hit your goals? And you'd have to show them.

And then they review your My Fitness Pal every night. And it's like, all right, you're doing everything according to plan. It like, guilt, guilt me into doing it.

But it also teaches me. Like, I didn't know that you had to get a gram of protein per body pound or per pound of body weight. Like I didn't know any of that shit.

And so they like educated me.

SPEAKER_01
Tracking nutrition can be super beneficial for people just getting into health fitness. It just teaches them about serving sizes and macronutrients and total calories.

SPEAKER_04
Well, I started weighing my food after I saw Nick, you did it on some of your videos. You were like, and I thought weighing your food was cumbersome, but I just saw you just have a bowl on top of the scale. And when you were pouring the chicken in there, I just need about half a pound.

And you just pour it in there. I'm like, oh, cool. That was really simple and easy.

You just pour it right into the bowl and put it in the microwave. And it was a very easy thing to track. So I started doing it after I saw your videos, actually.

SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I don't track my nutrition right now, but I still weigh my food just for serving size allocation.

SPEAKER_04
Yeah, and now I know. But now I just buy, like if I buy red meat, I buy it by the pound and I know that a pound of red meat reduces to 0.7 and I know what's in 0.

7 of ground beef or 0.7 of chicken. And so yeah, that's how I do a lot of it now for weighing.

Last question. And this is from me. I'm actually curious, who influences you guys and what sources do you turn to for like, like for example, there's this guy, what's the guy on, I think his name is Biolane on Instagram, what's his name?

SPEAKER_01
Lane Norton. Lane Norton.

SPEAKER_04
Lane Norton. So like, I like, he's like, you know, New York Times did an article where they're like, now everyone has their own fitness guru who they trust. And so like, Hubertman is like a guy for someone.

Nick, you're a guy for someone probably, where I'm like, if they say this, I do it. They say, who are your gurus, your fitness guys that you trust for health and nutrition and what sources do you use?

SPEAKER_01
Lane Norton is definitely one for me. What I like about Lane is like, if anyone's ever saying something and it seems so ridiculous and bold and new and fresh, I will literally go over to Lane's platform and wait for him to do a response because he typically does.

SPEAKER_04
I love his carnivore stuff. And like the guy who says like vegetables are bad for you. Like, that's great.

SPEAKER_01
Yeah. Lane has like a really holistic science-based approach to health and nutrition. He also has a really good app called Carbon that is great for people who wanna track their nutrition and reach their fitness goal.

Like fitness-wise, I follow Lane. I listen to some Hubertman stuff. I'm typically just like, I don't have one person I'm following for fitness and nutrition.

I'm kind of just like having a pulse and feeling what's out there. And then if I hear about something, I'll go do my own research. So I'll read the actual articles and peer-reviewed literature

SPEAKER_04
and see what- What do you use for that? Have you heard of, I've been using perplexity for that. It's been kind of cool for, it's like a chat GBT for studies.

SPEAKER_01
Interesting, perplexity?

SPEAKER_04
Yeah, I have that bookmarked here, perplexity. And it's, they do a bad job of explaining what it is, but they basically review tons of different studies. So you don't have to read all of them.

And so you can ask, you can ask it a question of like, is Aspartame proven to give cancer? And I'll say like, well, of all these studies, here's what they, here's the summary.

SPEAKER_01
I'll check that out. Lane has one called Reps. I also use examine.

com. Same, love them. Examine.

com is really good. And then I'll just go to PubMed, PubMed and just like read the articles there. From like fitness, that's where I'm like pulling a lot of my info.

Outside of fitness, just like audiobooks, like whenever I'm running, I'm typically listening to an audiobook and-

SPEAKER_04
That's crazy to me. That's insane to me that you do that. You can't do that? Dude, no.

Like A, I don't pay attention. And B, like it, like usually what I like to do is, when I go for a run, I know how many, I like beat per minute songs, songs that are a certain beat per minute. And so my stride will go to that beat per minute, you know what I mean? Which is typically like around 80 or 85 beats per minute.

SPEAKER_01
I used to do that. When I first started running, I would do that. But yeah, I'll listen to an audiobook in like 10 miles.

I forget I'm running for 10 miles.

SPEAKER_03
Like I just- I listened to an audiobook during the marathon. I did the exact same thing. What? I listened to the Martian, Andy Weir's, the sci-fi stuff.

SPEAKER_04
Dude, you guys are so weird.

SPEAKER_01
That is so weird to me. Dude, you know what book I just finished up that like I can't recommend enough? It's called Trust by Henry Cloud. If you guys haven't read that yet or heard of it, it's, I mean, maybe it's just hitting me like the right time in my life, but it is a powerful, good book.

What is it? It's all about like how to evaluate relationships and trust, how to regain or rebuild trust when you've been betrayed, what to look for in trusting someone. A lot of the times we think that trust is someone who just like won't lie, steal or cheat. So like we'll hire people, we'll bring people onto our team who meet those requirements.

Oh, they don't lie, steal or cheat. I can trust them. Or can we trust them in the capacity of the role that we're expecting them to perform?

SPEAKER_04
Dude, this is serial killer shit that you can listen to a self-health book while you're like running a marathon. I think that's so weird.

SPEAKER_03
Like I would read this book. You went no headphones for the marathon, right Nick?

SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, I did no headphones.

SPEAKER_04
That's what ballers do, Sahel. Like if you, like I grew up going across country.

SPEAKER_03
Real runners will definitely give you shit.

SPEAKER_04
Yeah, if you like go to a cross country practice or something and you go run with headphones on, like the hard cores will totally mock you. But I do it anyway, because I'm like, this is fun for me. I'm doing what I want.

I'm not doing the hard core.

SPEAKER_03
It was what Nick said at the beginning by the way, which is like, if you publicly state you're gonna hit some sort of like goals, the running like the running hardcore will definitely talk crap and troll you until you post proof that you actually did it. And then you kind of like have earned enough clout. Like I sort of feel like everyone made fun of me for getting into running.

And then I like posted some actual verifiable stats. And now you, you know, now I'm like a solid amateur and people can't really make fun of you anymore. So now you've like, you've like earned the respect of the crew, like the cool kids in the cafeteria.

So now like they can't come beat you up.

SPEAKER_01
So that's a real thing that actually happens. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04
What's your answer to that?

SPEAKER_03
What's my answer to where I go to?

SPEAKER_04
Yeah. And who influences you? Who's like your person?

SPEAKER_03
I mean, I grew up, so my baseball training, I was the first client of this guy named Eric Cressy who has now become pretty famous. He's the performance coach for the Yankees, but is now like the major league baseball strength guy, like trains Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander, all of like the who's who of baseball.

SPEAKER_04
And I feel like a baseball guy is the worst person to get fitness advice from. That's like the fattest sport there is.

SPEAKER_03
No, he was like the, he was the first guy to like really bring strength and performance training to baseball. So it was that it was like the fat guys or the steroid era guys who were just meat heads. And he brought like true performance training to the sport, which now is like the real driver of why every guy throws 100 miles an hour, like guys are hitting absolute tanks all the time.

He was really the pioneer of that. I mean, he's been on like Tim Ferriss's podcast. He's really, really big time and a close friend, incredible.

And then there's this guy, Ben Bruno, who is like a celebrity trainer, pretty big Instagram presence. And he's more of like stuff for regular people to actually implement in their life training. And I just love that stuff.

Cause it's kind of a cool blend of the like more extreme things that I like doing with the actionable stuff that people can actually take as advice.

SPEAKER_04
Yeah, Ben Bruno, he's got like the, like the everyday ripped guy vibe.

SPEAKER_03
He's super, super strong functionally and trains like insane legit celebrities out of like a 150 square foot gym in his garage. Yeah, here's him with just Timberlake. Yeah, Timberlake is like one of his, one of his good friends rolls up there and trains with him.

He's incredible. And then on diet stuff, there's this guy, Zach, I think Ruchelo is how you pronounce his last name. He's like the flexible dieting lifestyle is his Instagram handle.

And he just posts like insane macro recipes, basically, things that are like delicious, but don't completely screw up your diet. And I just, I nerd out on that kind of stuff. He's Austin, Texas based.

Yeah, he's Austin based.

SPEAKER_04
Yeah. Dude, Nick, you probably know like half these guys I would bet.

SPEAKER_01
I know, I know Zach. I know Zach personally. You know who else is really good for a general health information, health and fitness information for people just getting started is Jordan Syat.

SPEAKER_03
Jordan. Jordan Syat. So Jordan was an intern at Eric Cressy's gym.

So Jordan is my year in high school. He went to Lincoln Sudbury High School, which was like our arrival high school. And he was an intern at Cressy's gym when I was training there.

So I've known Jordan since we were like, we were kids. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01
Hey, he's got good stuff.

SPEAKER_03
By the way, he's Gary V's trainer.

SPEAKER_04
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I saw that. I just went to this guy, the flexible dieting lifestyle. And I'm like typing all this in as you guys are talking.

And I'll do a little flex. I go to file this guy and it says follow back. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03
That's awesome. Zach, it's awesome. The protein ice cream recipes are like the best thing in the world.

SPEAKER_04
Yeah. This is a great Instagram. This guy kills it.

SPEAKER_01
Do you have a creamy at home? Ninja Creamy?

SPEAKER_03
I do. Oh, it's the best. One of our best purchases my wife and I, like every Saturday.

SPEAKER_01
The Ninja Creamy, you can make like protein ice cream with it. They were like, they got popular based off of TikTok early on. And they like were sold out for months.

And they finally came back on the market and we purchased one.

SPEAKER_04
Well, I used to do that. So what I do with your, so, BPN, so I like to do a scent protein with just water and then I use BPN to like eat. And so like, for example, I'll mix it with some type of liquid and I'll microwave BPN.

And it's almost like I'm eating like, I don't know. I mean, it's like a dessert because you gave me the Keyline Pie one and then you gave me a birthday cake one. And I think the birthday cake one is discontinued.

And I would just, we would microwave it and just eat it. And it was like a souffle or something. Now I guess I'll use BPN to this creamy.

SPEAKER_03
Sam, I will change your life right now. Two cups of whole milk, like fair life whole milk, a scoop of BPN vanilla, maybe like two tiny little packets of stevia and some sugar-free vanilla pudding mix. Freeze it overnight, put it into the Ninja Creamy.

And it is literally identical to like a vanilla McDonald's McFlurry. Really? It comes out insane. And then you can put a couple like Oreo things in there and get like a legit McDonald's McFlurry that has like 40 grams of protein and is great for you.

SPEAKER_04
Dude, this is awesome. I'm like literally writing all this down and I just add the creamy to my cart.

SPEAKER_03
It will change your life. I'm not joking.

SPEAKER_01
It is pretty wild. I did it my first time and like I only mixed it once and it came out like, what's this? Yeah, you got to go twice. To do it twice? Completely different thing after like one more mix.

SPEAKER_03
Light ice cream setting once. Open it up, pour like a table spoon of whole milk in, and then blend it on light ice cream again and it makes the perfect consistency.

SPEAKER_04
All right, I literally just bought it off Amazon, the creamy. And I only have. It's the best.

I got to get a VPN vanilla now because I only did chocolate birthday cake and Key lime pie.

SPEAKER_03
You can do it with whatever flavor you like. I just think the vanilla base is so good. I want to hear about this 239 though.

I'm going to nerd out on this.

SPEAKER_04
Yeah, so Nick, you're trying to run 239 now for the marathon, right?

SPEAKER_01
No, I just did. So you just did. At CIM, which is the California International Marathon, that was December 3rd, I ran a 239.

20. And when I went into that prep, I was shooting for a sub 245. And sub 245 is about a 615 minute per mile pace.

Ended up doing 605 minute per mile pace for all 26.2 of those miles.

SPEAKER_03
Can you just walk through your progression on the marathon stuff? Because I feel like I've seen a video. So I mean, I only I started running in March. And someone mentioned your name as soon as I started getting into running as like the person that was pioneering this whole idea of like hybrid athlete, whatever.

It's kind of become like an invoke thing now. But basically a guy that can be both jacked and fit in cardio things, not CrossFit, like actual strength related stuff and then running. And I remember seeing a video of you like a four hour marathon maybe.

And your progression from that to running maybe sub three for the first time. Can you just walk through like what your progression has been from start to finish on the different marathons you've done?

SPEAKER_01
Yeah. Well, first off, when you and I first started talking, you said you wanted to do a sub three for your first marathon.

SPEAKER_04
I thought he was crazy when he said that.

SPEAKER_01
Dude, so did I. I was like, man, that's I think I even told you like, that's a bold move. But you did it.

So congratulations on that. But yeah, my marathon progression. So my first marathon was in 2018.

It was about a year after I got out of the military. And what's funny is the day I got out of the military, I said I would never run a day in my life again. And about a year later was running my first marathon.

And here we are like thousands of miles later. But 2018 Austin Marathon, I ran a 357, which was just an absolute dumpster fire. But you weighed like 225, right? I was like 225.

I didn't have a training program. I was a bodybuilder. Like I was just I just wanted to be as big and yoked as possible.

Ran this marathon. After mile 16, I hit the wall. It was just all downhill from there.

A year later, I signed up for the Austin Marathon again. Same training program, which was lack thereof. And I ran a four hour, 15 minute marathon.

So I ran 18 minutes slower than the previous year. And then after that, I signed up for my first Ironman, trained for an Ironman. Did Ironman, Florida actually started to learn what it takes to build endurance and get better at endurance events and races? You broke 12 hours in that one.

Yeah, I did my Ironman, Florida in 1128. But I ran the marathon in four hours and four minutes. So the reason that was so kind of significant was I looked back at my previous two marathons.

I was like, man, after I just swam and biked and then ran, I was able to run a pretty decent marathon. So I told myself I want to run sub three. And that was the goal.

And I posted this online. I said, I'm doing a sub three hour marathon. And the internet trolls and activity just blew up.

I mean, there are forums on let's run. There are forums on Reddit. Everyone was like, this guy will not run a sub three hour marathon.

So then I signed up for the Austin marathon again. I followed a training program. It was a better prep.

But even in my head, I was like, I'm not in sub three shape. But at the starting line, I told myself you can mentally out will anything. I was like, if I just like, I can mentally overcome the physical weakness that I have to run the sub three hour marathon.

SPEAKER_04
And what's sub three? Is sub three 650 per mile?

SPEAKER_03
I think 651 is like 259, 59. Like if you sneak in under one second. And the only reason I know that is because of exactly what Nick said about mine that everyone was like, dude, there's no way.

So I knew in my mind, like I just have to keep this under 651, my watch base. And I'm going to be fine.

SPEAKER_01
See, I like banking time. So I always like, I like saving time. So at the end, if I needed, I have it.

SPEAKER_03
Which is the opposite of what like real runners tell you to do. I did the same thing, by the way. Like I went out way too fast and then was just like hanging on for dear life, doing the math in my head of like, OK, if I run like a 10 minute mile here, I'm still going to make it.

SPEAKER_04
I'm still because there's like they call it the wall. The wall is basically, I think it's like when you burn 1800 or 2200 calories or something like that. And you start going into what's it called? Where you like start using muscle as energy, I believe, or a car.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's when that wall is where you're like, I can't go any further. Usually that's in like mile 20, right?

SPEAKER_01
Yeah, ranges. Yeah. Based on the individual of like your conditioning, your experience, glycogen stores, how fast you burn through your body's energy. So I went out that Austin marathon with a goal of running sub three.

I went out way too fast. And within the first six miles, I knew I wasn't going to do sub three. In the first six miles I was done for.

And the Austin marathon is not flat. It's it's hills. It's it's like a horrible PR course.

No one PRs that I know of at the Austin marathon. So then the remainder of that race, I was just holding on and it ended up running three 24. So 24 minutes over sub three.

Everyone on the internet had doubted me, loved it. And I went into another training block immediately after that race was done. I actually did a real prep this time, had a really solid coach, Jeff Cunningham.

And I ended up running a marathon a year later in two hours, 56 minutes, 27 seconds. So it was the first time I went in sub three. Then a year later, I did the Buffalo, New York marathon in two 48.

And then just recently, December 3rd, 2023, I ran at two 3920, which is a 605 mile pace. What weight were you? I was 195 pounds.

SPEAKER_03
Oh my God. That's ridiculous at 195. And we're used to ridiculous at any at any body weight, but it's insane at 195.

SPEAKER_04
Were you still squatting and benching while you're I mean, were you still strong?

SPEAKER_01
I I took a lot of time off strength training during that prep. So for like 13 weeks leading up to that race, I was still lifting here and there. But I wasn't lifting legs heavy.

I wasn't lifting even upper body really heavy. I was just getting some movement in just to maintain and feel good. But the priority was was running because what a lot of runners don't realize is like

SPEAKER_04
so to 39, that's that's impressive. That's very impressive. But it's more impressive that you're doing it at your body weight.

That is that is that is like out of this world. I I got dinner one time recently with this guy named Josh Kerr. You guys know who Josh Kerr is.

Unless you're running a nerd, you don't know who he is. But he won the world. He won the world championships recently in the 1500 meter.

He's like a 345 miler. So one of the fastest milers ever, whatever. But he's pretty big for a miler for a normal human being.

You think he's skinny, but for a miler, he's big. And I started talking to him and I was like, you're pretty big. How'd you do this? He goes, man, he's from Scotland, I think.

He goes when I came to America when I was 17 to go to college. And I was training for the mile and I but I wasn't used to having fast food and like having restaurants open 24 hours a day. And so I got fat like my first semester there and I weighed 200 pounds.

And I broke the mile when I was 17 or 18 that year. When I weighed 200 pounds, he goes, I think I own the world record for the fattest sub four mile and like 200 pounds for like just a guy who's six foot. That's not huge, but to be able to run that time or the time even that you're running or even Sahel, you're pretty big too for running those times with that weight.

That's just like inconceivable, not only because it's hard, but what's inconceivable is that you're not getting hurt running 50 to 80 miles a week leading up to it. That's what's like in my mind, the most impressive part here.

SPEAKER_01
Yeah. I mean, when I first started running, I had a lot of injuries just because my my body mechanics weren't super efficient. So I've had knee injuries, quads, ankles, shins, calves, like everything.

But now as I've I've run longer with more miles, my body has become pretty efficient at form and function. And I rarely get injured anymore, unless I do like an ultramarathon.

SPEAKER_03
I had to, you know, from my training, I just had to like random life lesson type things from the running that I'm curious, Nick, if you've experienced these. One was before my marathon, I was trying to figure out like how to just like mentally take on the goal of running sub three for it and how to think about like if I'm six miles into the race and I realize I'm not going to hit it, how to make sure I still finish the race and don't just like mentally completely lose it. And this marathoner told me that for every single race or anything that you're going after, you want to have basically three goals.

He was like, you have your A goal, which is the main thing you're trying to hit. And then you have a B goal, which is like just slightly worse. And then you have a C goal, which is just like finish the damn race.

And you can always like you lock in on your A goal from the start. But if you start falling off that and realize you're not going to hit it, you need something to fall back on that keeps you motivated when you're in it. And so you have your B goal.

And then the C goal is just get to the finish line. And I have taken that and like run with it in every area of life now, like no matter what it is, if you have a fitness goal, like a daily fitness goal, you want to run every day and work out every day. It's good to have that A goal.

But the reality is that like shit hits the fan sometimes, like your kid is up all night or like you have a problem at home or something at work pops up. And so having that idea of like, what is the B goal? Maybe it's a slightly lower version. And then the C goal is like, I'm just going to go for a walk and get 15 minutes of movement in that has helped me so much in terms of just like navigating the vagaries of life that inevitably hit when you know, you're not going to have your perfect day every single day.

SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it's like the mindset of like all or nothing. It's like you see so many people at every marathon, every race. It's very applicable to anything else in life, but you see these elite runners go out and as soon as they fall off of pace, they drop out, they just fall to the side.

And I was actually talking to Ken Ride out a few weeks ago when he was on my podcast and now he lives down the road for me here in Nashville. But he was telling me when he did Kona Ironman years and years and years ago. During the race, he realized he wasn't going to hit the time you wanted.

So he just dropped down to the race. And him and his family traveled to Hawaii for this race. So there's a lot of time, effort, energy, money going into it.

He dropped down to the race and he said it was like his greatest regret ever. So he forced himself to go back the next year for for redemption, just to prove to himself that he could do it. But I think the feelings, the emotions and just everything that's created when you quit something and drop out because you weren't on pace with that goal, I mean, that's like self destruction.

That hurts so much more than not actually finishing the race.

SPEAKER_03
The other thing that's funny to me about all runners that I feel like they've gone through, you said it like with your first marathon or when you let the military, you were like, I'm never going to run again. I'm done with this. It's like, it's like women after they have, after they have babies, there's like that chemical that gets released that makes them forget how much it hurts going through childbirth.

I think the same thing happens with running. It just is like a little more delayed. Like when I finished my marathon, I was like, fuck this, I'm never running another marathon.

I'm like, that was the most painful thing I had ever experienced. Like the last six miles, I wouldn't wish that on my worst damn enemy in the world. And then like two weeks later, I'm like, hmm, like, which one should I sign up for next year? Like I got to go to 49.

I got to do this.

SPEAKER_00
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01
I mean, it's I'm the same way with ultras. Like I finished an ultra and I'm out for two weeks. I can't walk.

My toenails are falling off. And I talked to my wife and like, this was stupid. Why did I do this? I'm useless.

I can't help out at home. And I find myself signing up for their ultra shortly after.

SPEAKER_04
Dude, your ultra documentary was so good. I remember I like had I subscribed for like the premiere. So I was like sitting at my TV waiting for it to come out.

It was an hour long about Leadville, I think, right? Yeah, it was so good. I remember I was like one of the first ones. I was like, all right, it's coming up at this time.

Sarah, let's sit down and watch it. And what's crazy about you is like, there's this whole thing where these people who want to talk in cliches are like every media or every company should be a media company. Yada, yada, yada.

And the thing is they mostly suck at it. You're actually one of the few guys that has like your supplements. They meet.

I don't know what the grade is, but you know, I know I've talked to you and I talked to other people about it and your competitors will be like, yeah, BPM, they they meet this particular grade. They are of high quality. But you also you nailed that the supplement thing.

But then you also are nailing the media thing and no one else or very few other people are doing that where they're you're actually really nailing it. It's almost you could argue that your media is even better than the supplements because supplements like I don't know how the industry works, but seems like yeah, they're like these five are great, but your media is awesome. I appreciate that.

You had like it looked like you had three or four guys following you around the whole time. Your wife was there. I feel like I know her because of the videos and then she was following you on Instagram or and talking about your splits and these guys have these beautiful cameras.

It was just like it was a great documentary. How many views did that have?

SPEAKER_01
The little doc now has I think born in half million.

SPEAKER_04
It was so good, man. It was so good. Are you did you come up with that storyline or do you just hire good a good team?

SPEAKER_01
That's my creative director Jordan in house here. Where's he from? Jordan is from Ohio geographically, but he was just when I met him. He was employee number four at BPN and he was filming for another YouTuber.

When I met him as a freelancer and I was looking for a videographer at the time because this was 2019 at the time I was still filming and editing all my own videos. That's crazy. That's a shit ton of work.

I mean, all I did all literally all I did was work and 2019 was the first time I was able to bring someone on, but I was looking for like over a year for the right person. I would fly people down. They would stay with me and meet him.

We filmed something. It just didn't feel right. So I didn't pursue it met Jordan.

Felt right. He moved down creative director. He led my content for a while.

Then he went and led BPN's content for a while and now he's back work on directly on my content again. But he came up with a storyline, the whole production, the scouting, the editing process. Obviously we had a lot of guys on the team supporting that editing and filming and production, but Jordan led that project.

We just launched the last man standing ultra that he led and created with Ian Rodriguez here on my team and we posted the CIM race video Monday. But yeah, Jordan is a super talented creative.

SPEAKER_04
What's your how much are you spending per year on a team for content? And are you able to are you tracking the ROI or is this just like a thing where you're like, I'm pretty sure it's worse. It's up.

SPEAKER_01
I'm pretty sure it's working. I mean, our media team is I mean, with video just videographers, photographers, we have 10. But then we have our social team and a lot of my business decisions as like as an entrepreneur.

One thing I've learned and I think we were talking about this one when you're on my podcast a few months ago is that I make a lot of my decisions that I've made a lot of my decisions in business based off of intuition and gut feeling. I never looked at the P&L and I looked at the balance sheet. If I had this feeling that it was working and I could feel momentum and I had a pulse on it, I was just like, keep, keep spending, keep hiring.

Then finally at one point I hired operators, a CFO, a CEO and they're like, Hey, we got to put some some guardrails around this. But like all of my decisions in business had been intuition gut. If it feels right, I'm going to do it.

I have a feeling there's going to be an ROI. I might not be able to measure it, but I'm going to do it. I can subjectively tell if it's going to work or is working.

SPEAKER_03
Is it separate at all? Like the Nick Bear Fitness platform and your personal social media, is that separate from BPN as like a functional entity or are the people like the videographers, the 10 people, is that all under BPN?

SPEAKER_01
Yeah, the whole process has changed significantly over the last couple of years. So originally it was all one team. And then at one point we separated out where I have now have the Nick Bear Fitness business and then the Bear Performance Centrician business.

So there were like two separate teams.

SPEAKER_04
And the Nick Bear Fitness business is your app, right? Your app and your channel.

SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it's like my content, my IP, my channel, my training app, stuff like that. I used to do brand deals. I don't do any brand deals anymore.

SPEAKER_04
Dude, Hoka should have been paying you like seven figures a year. I bought Hoka's because of you because I saw I was like, oh, big guy wears Hoka's. Hoka's is the thing.

SPEAKER_01
The amount of the amount of Hoka Rinkons I sold when I first started running has to be absolutely ridiculous. So just talking about the separation, we separated out Nick Bear Fitness team and BPN team for a while. Really, it made no sense of what we were doing and why we're doing it.

I just thought it was the professional move to take in the next step in stage of business. Now we've brought it all back into one entity. I still have the Nick Bear Fitness business, but everyone that is working on media is on BPN payroll, is a BPN team member.

And all the content we're creating is in the hope of building a supplement business. Now the teams are separated working on different projects. Like I have my creative director Jordan, who's leading my content, Ian, who's working on my content, Everett, who's a podcast producer.

And then we have the dog first creatives that are working on just BPN stuff. But there's definitely crossover and the lines are blurrier than they used to be. Do you think that dings your evaluation if you ever wanted to sell the company

SPEAKER_04
because it's so tied onto you?

SPEAKER_01
I don't know if it dings the valuation, but I definitely think that a process and a sale would come with a whole lot of structure, a lot of IP negotiations and possibly issues.

SPEAKER_03
I feel like it's less than you think, actually. I was always impressed. So I had actually taken BPN supplements before knowing you.

And had no idea who you were or that you were involved. They just popped up as one of the supplements I was taking. That's not the bulk, you think? You think that's the bulk of customers? Honestly, I have no idea.

I just remember back in my private equity days, we looked at Onit. You remember that brand? I don't know if it's still around. Onit was selling.

And they had a huge exit. Well, it was so tied to Joe Rogan and what was the name? Aubrey. Marcus.

Yeah, Aubrey Marcus. And that was when we were looking at it, private equity guys. That's their biggest fear is like, oh, how involved are these two guys? Is it a key man risk? All this stuff.

And then ultimately, they ended up getting to an amazing exit with somebody. And they put guardrails around it. They get key man insurance or whatever it is.

But I would be interested to find out, actually, run a survey of your customers. What proportion actually end up coming through you and your media versus now just like the flywheel is spinning, SEO is there, and the business kind of just is self-propagating.

SPEAKER_04
Well, that's been the fear with my businesses, which is I don't want to make it me. I want to make it its own thing. But me or Nick or Sahel, that gets the initial base, but it's like, at what point do you, when do you make the transition? And that's a challenging, I don't know the answer to that question.

And I'm afraid of the repercussions of making the wrong choice. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that's been a topic of discussion for the last couple of years with us and trying to figure out how to navigate that. And for a while, I kept leaning into, okay, well, let's separate in the hopes of building VPN away from myself so that it's separate and distinct and can stand on its own. But what I found by doing that is the separation created this loss of vision and brand.

So I've kind of just like flipped my whole thought process on that and said, screw whatever happens in the future. And I'm going to lean fully back in and I don't care really how it affects valuation or the end process anymore. I'm just going to build a brand that I'm really proud of and the way I want to build it and whatever happens happens.

And if someone comes knocking on my door in the next couple of years and says, like, hey, we love what you're doing, let's talk. But if you don't like it, you know, I just want to make sure I'm enjoying the process and not building a business based off of KPIs and milestones.

SPEAKER_04
And I bet you're, I mean, I have no idea. I've never seen you comment on this, but I would have to assume the app that you have, how much do you charge, 50 bucks a month or something?

SPEAKER_01
It's $19.99 a month.

SPEAKER_04
So I would have to imagine that's doing well too, right?

SPEAKER_01
I mean, I make much more money outside of VPN than I make personally with VPN.

SPEAKER_04
Yeah, I mean, I think it's killing it. Sahil, have you ever thought about doing it?

SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I mean, that type of business model is incredible, right? It's just like the ultimate scalability. And, you know, as your personal, it just for you, as you think about reinvesting cash flows into your brand building, it just makes it so much more dynamic because you can run all of your media stuff at break even if you want to, like you can just reinvest all the cash that you're generating from YouTube ads, from the app, from any of those things into creating better and better content and create this massive flywheel and just count on VPN as the like long-term upside bet.

SPEAKER_04
Yeah, but if I had to bet, I bet you, Nick, if I had to bet, Nick has probably been, even though his net worth has skyrocketed, if I had to bet, you've lived relatively poor compared to the net worth that you've created, cash flow poor. And now you probably taste this and you're like, okay, finally I can afford like to live like I want to live as opposed to just living on $80,000 a year.

SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I mean, for the first, I didn't take any money out of the business for the first five years.

SPEAKER_04
What do you get? Like just like an army or you get like a military stipend or something?

SPEAKER_01
Yes, it worked well because it started the business 2012. 2017 is the year I transitioned out of the army. So I actually had to start paying myself then me and my brother, he moved down from Pennsylvania to help us build the business.

We signed our first Warhouse lease that year. It was the first year we hit seven figures in revenue. And it was also like the most challenging year in my entire life because I didn't know anything about financing inventory.

I didn't know anything about leveraging debt. I didn't know anything about taking out business loans or utilizing lines of credit. Cash flow was an absolute nightmare.

The only money I thought I had to spend was the money that was in the bank account. We had no terms with manufacturers. Like 2017 was arguably the worst and hardest year of my life, but also the best year of my life that if I could relive any year right now, it'd be that year.

SPEAKER_03
That's insane. That's one thing, by the way, like just the timeframe on all of this. I feel like people don't appreciate time as a lever for growth on anything as much as they should.

And actually, like people in fitness and athletes understand it better because they understand that growing slowly is the game and just getting better slowly. Like when I look at your YouTube channel and go to most popular videos, a bunch of these videos, like you've been at this for years and years. There's like six-year-old video, four-year-old video, three-year-old video, like eight-year-old video, the 10,000 calorie cheat day challenge.

Like some of this stuff, you've just been at it and I know you just said it. You were editing these. Like you were actually on the ground spending the like 100-hour weeks doing this stuff for a long, long time.

It wasn't like you all of a sudden popped up and had this unbelievable, you know, production quality that you have today. So I also just think like appreciating time as a lever for growth on these fronts is incredible.

SPEAKER_01
That is one thing that's been a powerful skill for myself over this last decade plus is just the consistency at which I've just kept doing the thing. But even the one thing Sam and I talked about when he was on my podcast, I think you were going to do like a speech and you were back in like the green room before going on to the speech and you're talking to all these high-worth individuals who are super powerful and they're all sitting there super insecure and scared and nervous. And like, holy shit, these people aren't any more secure, confident or better than me.

And I think once you realize that, that I have all the skills that I need to take whatever is I want to take to the top, I just have to apply it. Because I used to think and I went through this phase where I was like, okay, I'll get this business, I'll get this thing to this level. But at some point, I'm not going to be spawned enough.

So I'm going to have to outsource people to come in and take it from where I build it to where it needs or can go. And sometimes you do that, but you don't have to. And I've realized that there's no one smarter than me that's going to take this business to the level it needs to go.

I just have to be super consistent at this approach for a long period of time and it's going to pay off in dividends.

SPEAKER_04
But you did hire a CEO, I think, what are you a year into that? A little over a year.

SPEAKER_01
Yep. How's that? It's been great. I mean, the main reason I wanted to step out of the CEO role, and I wasn't actively looking to hire a CEO, but Kat came into the business.

First, it's kind of just an advisor, and then she joined as the chief revenue officer, leaning into more operations. And then we just had a conversation one day, I was like, hey, would you ever want to be CEO? Because I really just wanted to focus on creating content and brand building. And she was like, yeah, if you want me to be CEO, I'll be CEO.

So we made the switch because the business got to a point in a size where I wasn't spending my time on the things that I was passionate about anymore. I was spending my time on people management and lawsuits and retail and finances and P&L and balance sheets. And I was like, this is all super critical important stuff, but I don't love it.

I want to focus on what I love, and that's creating content that's building brand, that's getting people jacked up. It's talking about the products, it's working on new product innovation. And that's why I wanted to make that change, which has been like much harder than I thought it would be.

And I'm only now a year in of that transition, really finding my lane. But this last year for me has been an interesting one.

SPEAKER_04
And it's hard. So I have a CEO too, we'll be at one year in a couple months. And it's hard because you want to be a good, I don't know what it's called, a good partner with your CEO, where you want them to make mistakes and you want them to put their flavor and stuff because you got to let a CEO do that.

But then at the same time, you're like, but I already did all this and I can tell you what the outcome of this is going to be. Or, you know, it's just like, it's really, it's like getting married, but not living together right away. And so you get married and then you move in and you're like, oh, you're fucking quit leaving the cap off the toothpaste.

And it's like, well, no, you can't like bitch about little stuff. You got to let them do what they want to do. You know what I mean? It's like kind of weird.

It's like a weird, it's a weird thing, but you have to learn how to like manage each other. And it is a challenge. But when it works, it's hard.

It's the best.

SPEAKER_01
At any point, do you feel the need to jump back into the CEO role?

SPEAKER_04
Well, in my when I get pissed off, I'll be like, I got to do this and then I'll get like end of week or end of month updates. And I'm like, oh my God, Jordan is so much better at me than all of these things. And I and and also like, I would have done this different, this different, this different and those three things I probably would have been wrong about.

So like the name of the game isn't being right 100% of the time. The name of the game is being right for the right things most of the time. And I just had to like kind of like have empathy and put myself in his shoes and that helped a lot.

But no, like when I on a bad day, when I get pissed off, I'm like, I should do this. And then 99% of the time I'm like, you are more talented than I am at so many things. I cannot do this.

SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I think sometimes too, when you're when you're far removed from the position for an extended period of time, you forget all the bad things you used to deal with. Yeah, you only remember the good. And man, I kind of miss this and you get exposed to all the things, the bad things that you don't miss too much.

No, you got it. You run with it.

SPEAKER_03
It also kind of just before you jump forward from that, Sam, it also differs greatly between like a true business operations endeavor and a creative endeavor. Like you couldn't step away and truly have a CEO just like running your content apparatus because it would lose the like the Nick soul that is in it. That's in every single piece of content that exists.

You can like build your team around it, but you actually being in that creatively, I think is so key. There was this, I think it was Jerry Seinfeld did an interview with, I think it was like the Harvard Business Review and they asked him about the fact that him and Larry David basically wrote every episode of Seinfeld. And after nine years, they basically burned out.

And so the show just had to end because they burned out on doing it. And the Harvard Business Review was like, could you have hired McKinsey to come in and like help you find a better model and design something? And Jerry Seinfeld said, who's McKinsey? And they said, it's a consulting firm. And Seinfeld responded, are they funny? And basically his point was, you don't like, I don't need them if they're not funny because the efficient way of doing the creative thing is actually the wrong way.

And what he said is the right way is the hard way. The show was successful because they did it the hard way. They micromanaged every single detail of the creative process and they really had their soul in it.

So I think that like your creative success and what has allowed all your businesses to thrive are also fundamentally tied to the fact that you have your soul in every single piece of content that you guys are putting together.

SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I agree with that. I think sometimes entrepreneurship and building a business and founding a company from the outside looking in, like people make it seem easy. So it's romanticized and everyone's like, oh, I could start a business.

I could do it. And then you finally do it. And you have this passion around everything you're building, but then it gets hard and it gets challenging and then it grows and then, you know, your passions are sidelined for the priorities of the further parts of the business.

But it's just maintaining that consistent work ethic, even when you're working on things that you truly weren't passionate about in the beginning, but you know it drives business and leads you to an ultimate end goal.

SPEAKER_04
Well, guys, I appreciate you coming on. It was a little impromptu, but this is fun. I just like hanging out with you guys and learning.

Nick Sahil, I'm close to Sahil, so I don't have to say this to him, but Nick, I've looked up to you for a while now and I appreciate you doing this. Sahil, I appreciate you doing this too. This is awesome.

Thanks guys. Appreciate the opportunity.

SPEAKER_01
All right.

SPEAKER_00
That's the pod.