SPEAKER_00
Hello and welcome to Office Hours with EAB. Our guests today explain how to stop dreading the annual budget process by learning how to collaborate more effectively with your finance team. There are some great tips here from a veteran of University Finance and Administration, as well as some from an advancement professional who figured out how to articulate her department's budgetary needs and priorities in a way that could be better appreciated by the folks in charge of signing off on that budget.

So give these folks a listen and enjoy.

SPEAKER_03
Hi everyone and welcome to Office Hours with EAB. My name is Jenny Jones and I am part of the Advancement Marketing Team here at EAB. My background is in university fundraising and that work has enabled me to meet and work with some really talented individuals over the years.

Today I am lucky to have two such people joining me on the podcast. First up is a fellow veteran fundraiser, Alicia Faraday, and with her is Matthew Kogut and he is the Associate VP of Finance and Administration. So we're going to talk a little bit today about these two worlds and how they intersect, especially in higher education advancement.

But first let me ask my two co-presenters here today to introduce themselves and tell you a little bit about their institution. So Alicia, I will ask you to go first.

SPEAKER_02
So I'm Alicia Faraday. I'm the Vice President for Institutional Advancement at the University of New England. I've been at UNE for four and a half years and as the Vice President for two and a half years and in my role I oversee a department of 22 people and we have six areas, donor relations, major giving, all the usual advancement areas.

In addition we also have government relations which is an interesting and something I knew nothing about an area but I became Vice President. UNE is a fairly young institution even though we have 1863 on our seal, actually a mishmash of several universities including Buttsburg College which is on Portland campus and St. Francis which is on our Bineford campus.

So we have three campuses and I'll let Matthew tell you more about UNE but three campuses, Bineford, Portland and Morocco.

SPEAKER_01
Thanks, Alicia. My name is Matthew Cogut. I serve as the Associate Vice President of Finance and Administration here at the University of New England.

I've been with the institution for 12 years and oversee a couple functional areas. So the annual operating budget or capital budget, debt planning, long-range financial planning in our institutional and research and data analytics department as well. Alicia hit some high level information on UNE but I'll give you a little bit more.

So we're actually Maine's largest private university. With an academic year headcount of 11,000 and FTE of about 6,000 we serve campus-based undergraduate, graduate and professional students that have a robust online college as well. We have two campuses in Maine, an oceanfront campus in Bitterford with a wide array of majors including some with some natural reputation such as marine science and we actually even have our own private research island just off the coast.

And our Portland campus which serves as our, really our graduate campus for our health professions programs including our College of Medicine and Dental Medicine. And we do have a third campus as Alicia mentioned in Tangier, Morocco which serves as a traditional semester long study abroad site for undergraduate students but our graduate students are able to travel there as well and we host conferences there. It's a truly special place.

I was there just this past January with a small group that sits again right on the coast in Northern Africa just across the Mediterranean from Spain.

SPEAKER_03
Wow, that's amazing. I didn't realize you had that campus so that is awesome to hear about that and learn more about UNE. So why are we here today and why have we invited Alicia and Matthew to talk about how they work together especially since we're talking about an advancement shop and then finance administration.

I don't know how many of you out there have had the experience of being in one role or the other or one division or the other and having to work closely together on many projects. I have had that experience at the institutions where I worked previously. I was always working with my finance and administration folks whether they were in the division or they were in central university administration.

So we thought as we talked about this it would be interesting to hear the perspectives from both sides about how they work together to benefit the institution because while this may seem like it's something that should happen naturally that it happens all the time, sometimes it doesn't and it can be really difficult when you're someone like me who has to get up in front of your board of trustees and articulate why you need additional funding for staff or why you are requesting additional programming funding for events that you want to do in alumni affairs or other priorities and you're up against honestly competing with other individuals on the campus for those budgetary priorities. So we thought about how do we talk about how do we work with our finance and administration folks especially when we're in advancement to talk about and articulate our budgetary needs and priorities in a way that can truly be appreciated and acted upon by the folks who are in charge of signing off on those budgets. So Matthew let's start there.

Why do you think so many department heads have difficulty engaging productively on budget discussions with your team with university finance and administration leaders? Why do you think that difficulty exists?

SPEAKER_01
Sure I think it's actually a really insightful question with a lot of layers to it but really for me there's really three I would say major reasons why. One is culture and I think most people when they hear culture are probably thinking okay institutional culture right or culture and higher ed and actually we're going to take it up a little higher and actually talk about really societal culture right. If you think about the three things right you're really not supposed to talk about if you want to be if you want to be polite and respectful and sort of settings right it's religion, politics, right and money right so finance.

So I think that you know it's not that really department heads, supervision heads are not willing right to to engage and talk about finances where they're disinterested I think honestly they're they're a bit out of practice and I think that that really is a big part of it and that really leads into number two which is that leads to an insecurity right a little bit around around finances and I think that many believe that they need to be financial experts to have successful conversations around annual budget development or long-range financial planning right with their peers in central finance or have a robust inventory of you know financial terms at their disposal and that's certainly not the case right so I'll give you the inside scoop there which is that you know we we do not have those expectations you know whatsoever you know what where we do is that we expect you to be subject matter experts in your area right not in finance you know and that will you know ensure that we have the best information available right for planning institutional level finances. I'd say you know ruling number three would be when you're heading into maybe for example in a conversation about annual budget development or longer-range planning is you know to not focus it's a little counterintuitive but to not focus on the dollars right away and so what I mean by that is sometimes right as you're heading into a rate of process or a conversation around around budget or financial planning the first step is to grab right to reach for you know the current year's budget right or last year's budget and really we want folks to step back a little bit right and not get focused so much right away on the exact cost of product or service or salary but really at UNE we actually begin that process say for example annual budget development process with really having conversations with someone like Alicia and say let's just you know step back for a moment right and we don't we don't even have numbers in the world right and we talk about the current level of resources and what the current operation looks like what's planned for their unit right so what major initiatives right are upcoming maybe for the next year or beyond are they right what are the lengths of them right are they are they are they short are there's shorter initiatives intermediate longer term and then maybe the environment in which they operate as a whole right so how is the landscape for example if we're working with Alicia of you know of fundraising changing and so how or if they if an initiative that's coming up so maybe that's a campaign or the reorganization of sorts if that's going to require additional resources and how do those resources that we're adding whether they're people or technology etc and how do those align with that changing landscape right are they going to be flexible and scalable enough right in you know in the upcoming years so and then I would say probably the the bonus number four which shouldn't be over what this is really relationships right so building relationships that doesn't necessarily mean you know you know sending a car you know you know sending emails or picking up the phone to always talk shop or talk business I would say that when Alicia and I you know maybe talk on the phone or exchange a text message I'm gonna say it's less than 50% of the time probably talking probably talking business it might be university related right but we're certainly not talking budgets and finances or even necessarily fundraising right so you know we've you know find the opportunity everyone's busy whether it's simple finance roles or we're folks leading you know functional units you know out in the university or but you're always busy but you know find the time to again to to build those relationships and it will it will certainly pay dividends and and when you do have to work together for example on an annual budget development process you know it makes it more efficient more comfortable um been easier to be transparent as well and yeah I love that model exactly yeah I love

SPEAKER_03
that model first of all focusing on the priorities and what you want to accomplish and then you're right it's all about relationships and those of us in advancements should recognize that right off the bench right because our work is about relationships but Alicia you became VP of Advancement two years ago tell me about those early days and how you develop that relationship both the working relationship and the personal relationship with Matthew um so I became the

SPEAKER_02
vice president in January of 2022 and I think it was three weeks later I had my first budget hearing which we called them at that time we don't call them that anymore but it was my presentation and I didn't have a presentation I think I had a word document and it was it was I didn't know what I was asking for I didn't have a vision yet of what I wanted to do at the department certainly didn't have priorities it basically walked away from that meeting with exactly the amount that I had the year before for the next year which was totally acceptable and probably well-deserved but I took that as a moment to say I have no idea what I'm supposed to be doing in these meetings and when I became vice president the thing that I told myself was I'm not going to pretend that I know how to do everything because I don't and so I took the next year and really dove into my budget I worked with my team members to understand what we were spending money on similar to how you would go through any plan with your advancement team like what are we doing why are we doing it does it make sense how much does it cost what is the ROI and so we really looked at it my team had actually never seen their budgets before they were not managing their own budgets the vice president was managing all of the budgets so that was something that I also did was disperse the departments to give them their budgets to manage and to give them the opportunity to ask questions and to learn about where they were spending their money because how are they going to have a vision if they don't know how they're spending their money yeah I love that I was always

SPEAKER_03
given my budget and then you can think about what could you do what are the possibilities so I love

SPEAKER_02
that yeah how do you dream if you don't even know what you're spending on things and they were able to ask really great questions there were things that were being expensed to one budget that actually should have been on another so they were able to identify those things and then it all wasn't on me as well to look through those things and then building my relationship with Matthew so he was in that first budget hearing and I'm pretty sure he shook his head and basically looked at me with pity and empathy because he knew I didn't know what I was doing and you know we're relationship people so I knew that there was some empathy there for my lack of knowledge and I think we built a rapport over the next year as I worked on my budget as I had questions there's a lot of things that I work on with Matthew that aren't budget related but our university budget related so we tend to have the same sense of humor and so we joked around a lot about some of those things and built our relationship but I do ask him a lot of budget questions I ask his team a lot of budget questions the process is very long at U and E which is wonderful it's new this is a new process for us to be quite so long but they've really taught me and Matthew has taught me to be constantly looking at my budget and constantly thinking about it and constantly developing it and never never to stop doing it because the minute I do something's going to catch

SPEAKER_03
me so yeah I love that you ask questions and that you feel okay and safe enough to ask questions because sometimes those of us in higher ed feel like we have to know everything like we're in these positions especially leadership positions we should know it all and I can tell you too at every institution the budget process is very different so and you alluded to it and how you change the process with your team but Matthew could you tell us a little bit Alicia said the budget process is a lengthy one at U and E what does that look like just if you can give us some of the details about what meetings take place or what that process looks like from a 30 000 foot level yes yeah of

SPEAKER_01
course yeah and I wouldn't say it's long Alicia it feels long I would say it's comprehensive so I would say honestly it's it's it's probably about Alfred right in terms of many many many peer very colleagues that others two students that's have that I would say they do have long process I would say ours is just right but it's it is very comprehensive and so what that looks like a U and E is really really we begin the initial conversations well first we will have what's called like a kickoff right and so how can we really think about you know how can individual areas functional areas so safe for example Alicia and I really think about what they're doing if we're not having this kind of level setting conversation about where the institution is right and that's that's everything from maybe that's a recent financial performance that could be enrollment trends etc right so I think it's that's really helpful I think in for areas to again to have that kind of that common you know base level of you know kind of understanding where the institution is and where we've been before we can really talk about right where we're going and and how that relates to their area so we'll have what's called a kickoff with each division there and really from there we'll distribute we've got kind of a robust set of you know planning materials that we send out to institutions and then we set up a series of what we call right budget development kind of working sessions if those are one-on-one sessions with our team in budget and planning it works with the functional areas or we call divisions here at U and E you know to again to to work through kind of what we talked about a little bit earlier so their current level of resources what's changing in their world and moving on really it's it's incremental so again those initial conversations not not a ton of numbers right in those conversations maybe the second time we meet then we're going to start right to put some numbers to things as but as we move along that all culminates and there's so many great partners like involved in that so I don't want to I don't want to list everyone because we'll leave somebody out but for example like our our our human resources group or just really important strategic priority there because we think about like higher rates driven by labor right so people and like physical infrastructure rates on our campuses you know that's pretty much the majority of what we got of what kind of drops what we're doing so HR places a huge part there and in helping us with some of those conversations about about planning right for for positions and and if there are viewers involved and and again doing compensation or use etc but our so those budget development you know working sessions you know in that back and forth in partnership with the areas really culminates in them completing a package which includes a presentation right so like a thing like a PowerPoint presentation typically what we'll see and then to kind of supplement their rates a little bit more kind of their detailed right their detailed budget what we call budget packets right they will meet with our executive leadership team so the president be there the provost or or see it though I'll be there as well you know again to to help units and they'll present their their budget development materials for the you know for the upcoming year and for the years beyond right so we do ask them to talk a little bit about what's coming down the pike rate because again that's really really important context and then from there kind of standard with most institutions there's prioritizing reprioritizing again more prioritizing and then we

SPEAKER_03
end up bringing a budget to our board trustees yeah that sounds like a great process and as I hear that and think about what I've been through in the past Alicia I have to ask you how did you work with your team to to develop this prioritized wishlist that you put into the presentation that them went forward what what did that process look like because I I know when I've done it in the past it's either a really nice process or it's not some of you out there I'm sure listening will agree with me you know we were there were limited budgets everywhere I work there were limited budgets and we were always fighting for the same dollars so Alicia with that in mind how did you get your team to to give you a wish list and then how did you narrow that down to what you're presenting to Matthew and the executive leaders makes sense for advancement so the first thing I did five years was we made

SPEAKER_02
as a leader team we made a five-year plan so we refer to that a lot when we're in the budget process what are we doing in the next five years and how are we going to get there and then throughout the year when somebody brings me an idea or expense or something they want to try if it's if it's uh if it requires money then we talk about it and we add it to we have a wish list and say remember that for budget time and let's talk about it again then and then we know that the budget process starts in around October but right now is our planning for the next fiscal year so we're already talking about the budget for the next fiscal year beyond that but also we're I'm meeting with every team member to talk through their budget for fiscal year 25 what does that look like what do you what do you see as some of the problems here then let's talk about that when the budget comes around then in September when we get our budget packet from Matthew's team we I send it to each department head each manager of us of a budget and I ask them to review it and to send me their pitches what do you want what do you need why we go through it individually so I meet with them one on one and we go through their budget and what they want and in that meeting if there's something that absolutely will not make it they know it's out and then I usually go to the meeting with Matthew and his team by myself so that I can get the feedback directly from them about what's going to go and what isn't going to fly and then you know I go back to the drawing board and review and I think I start with maybe 15 to 20 priorities when it starts and this year in January when I had my meeting I think I had four four but that's great yes so it really is the process of going through and as I'm writing the presentation as I'm writing the PowerPoint I'm still throwing things out so it goes right until that moment that I'm I start with a big big batch and then I say

SPEAKER_03
what do I really need to get this done? Exactly and I know you had shared and maybe Matthew you can respond to this but I thought it was great at one point you had shared that you gave Alicia some tips and tricks about what to do during this presentation and that was something I'd love you to give us a little bit of advice about I could have used that I know when I was in in that position and going up in front of generally it was our foundation board and our board of trustees there are budgeting process in some instances so what tips and tricks did you share with Alicia when she was new and coming into this process to better get her requests across from a budgeting

SPEAKER_01
standpoint? For sure you know and I would say probably more on presentation maybe preparation more so than presenting because I am far the lower level of the presenter but you know really I think it's you know what I've been thinking about presenting priorities for funding really being I think being open well first of all having you know having data really to support really what you're asking right so that's really that's really critical right so for example Alicia was had a request right to actually add some staffing right and there was some really strong data right that she had gathered I think quite a bit of it actually came from EAP to really serve for her position right and really what the outcomes could be and I think that and really to be prepared to have transparent conversations about like a range of outcomes not just the planned outcome or the best case scenario right but again a range of outcomes so that folks in the room are a little bit more comfortable you know again with you know with that request and again what what the potential you know what the potential results you know are

SPEAKER_03
going to be. Exactly um what we're thinking about too with limited budgets that we are all seeing Matthew I'd love your feedback and then Alicia I'll hear from you too but you are receiving requests and seeing these presentations from across the campus how are you all thinking about with the budget constraints in place are you looking at your strategic plan for the best use of funds or what what does that look like so we kind of have an insight of of how you are thinking about where the dollars go. If I were to go first either either can I'll go first and let Matthew

SPEAKER_02
tell me I'm wrong um how I how I do it is uh absolutely the five-year plan for institutional advancement which does fall into the strategic plan and and what we're trying to accomplish there so we've matched up our five-year plan with the strategic plan and the other part of that is are there ways that we can help other departments in our work that would also benefit the university so as we talk about recruitment one of the the reasons the positions that I asked for is actually an alumni volunteer position and we would like our alumni to help with recruitment so I can help another department in what they need by and also help myself so when I look at our budget that's some of the things that that's one of the things that I was looking at um is how can I help other areas that I know could use our help and might and would benefit the university I'm looking at the whole university but I'm making my decisions and trying to see what will benefit the university

SPEAKER_03
not just my department. I love that and Matthew from your perspective how are you looking at that?

SPEAKER_01
Yeah for sure um I think that you know there's a little bit of a tricky one very big is a every institution is in a little a little bit of a different position um you know maybe from you know from a budgetary perspective kind of what their constraints may be you know at the moment are they structural or are they kind of passing um you know I think we're we're fortunate you and even obviously our financial uh you know our financial strength is certainly uh you know certainly a benefit a benefit to us but that being said one of the reasons that we have that is because when we do put a strong emphasis on right for example efficiency so one of the things that we really like to see from our um you know from our division heads whether that's the dean or vice president of advancement is uh you know to first look at then uh their current right their current budget right so their their their current use of resources and say what's working what's not um and look at the areas that are inefficient and say you know what we maybe like as least said might have 15 to 20 priorities but it's not that it's not that maybe 10 through 20 I'm going to take off the table say you know what I'm we're going to look at our current level of resources or funding and reallocate those to some of these new higher priorities because some of these older priorities or initiatives uh products or services whatever they may be are no longer an efficient use of dollars right and so we're going to go ahead and reallocate that's something we'd really like to see because it really shows that they've taken a comprehensive look at their own you know at their own organization uh first and then in terms of future priorities again it really depends on in terms of the funding constraints you know that's where it's really important that there's just good communication between um you know between the divisions and central finance functions um in terms of you know so if you don't know where your university stands reach out and and ask the question say is there anything I should know about institutional level finances you know at you know APC University or college um but hopefully that information is

SPEAKER_03
is getting pushed out to you in advance yeah well I can see why you two work so well together I mean it is apparent from this conversation and and this has been wonderful we're going to wrap it up but before we do I want to ask is there advice you would share with other university leaders whether they're seeking funding for a special initiative or they just want to get through another budget cycle without tearing their hair out um are there any things you would share as we kind of

SPEAKER_01
end this conversation and Matthew we'll start with you yeah for sure I would say uh you know whether that's whether it's preparing for an annual budget development process or um you know planning for an upcoming major initiative that could be um again so it could be a campaign if you're in a leisure world if it's a dean it could be a new on new program a new academic program uh if you're in athletics it could be a sport is really to I would say to sort of reach out as early as possible and connect and partner with um you know with your folks in central finance um you know I think there's kind of going back to the beginning of our conversation there's this feeling that there's an expectation that everything needs to be just right um and that there needs to be the finances uh need to be in order and every dollar amount has to be accounted for and that's just that's just not true right so if we have a fully uh a fully buttoned plan presented to us um that's just looking for a standard approval we're probably going to be a little bit more skeptical than if we're uh you know having if we're if we're having a you know a higher level conversation early on in the process um and we can really work together to over time flesh out some of the some of the details so I would say um you know again reach out early and

SPEAKER_03
I'll that's great and Alicia from your standpoint for those advancement leaders out there listening what what are your advice or top tricks that you would share tips uh I think my number one piece

SPEAKER_02
of advice is we are as fundraising professionals I I was always told know your numbers and that was a fundraising number our projections our retention numbers but you should also know your expense numbers and you don't have to know them off the top of your head but you should know what you're spending versus a revenue that you're generating and constantly evaluate your budget constantly evaluate what you're doing this is summertime is a great time to sit down and look at what you did last year and what you're going to do in the next year and does it make sense to continue to do some of the things that you're doing and reallocate those dollars before the budget season even starts you could do that um and then having that five-year plan and having not only the five-year projections but how are you going to get there and something that we do often with both our campaign and in our in our shop is we have road maps we call them and we plan out everything we're going to do in that campaign for the next five years or in our regular work in the next five years and we know how much those things are going to cost so we can look at our budget for the next five years we can look at our revenue and make a direct correlation and I think that's really important uh so that would be my those are my two tips know your expenses as well as your revenue

SPEAKER_03
that's right well you all heard it here and Alicia is very much right that it is summer but we all need to be planning we're all in a planning mode enjoy your vacations but come back and look at your budgets if you haven't already or if you aren't thinking about what you've spent what you're spending what you've been allocated what you're still requesting at some state institutions you may not know your budget yet I was in that boat for several years but also think about meeting and make a building relationship with the finance office and with the individuals in that office so take them out for coffee go out to lunch together like Matthew said it's not all about just discussing finance or advancement and fundraising get to know people on your campus if you haven't done that already I think that came through loud and clear well with that Alicia Matthew thanks so much for your time today I really appreciate it it was a wonderful conversation and we at eab always appreciate the time you give especially at this time of year so thank you

SPEAKER_01
yeah thank you thanks Jenny you