SPEAKER_00
Hello and welcome to Office Hours with EAB. Our guests today look back over the most recent admissions cycle to assess how colleges and universities are handling test optional admissions policies. In short, it's a hot mess.
Two of EAB's enrollment gurus break down the good, the bad and the ugly in terms of how schools are operationalizing and communicating those policies to prospective students and their families. Thank you for listening and enjoy.
SPEAKER_01
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Office Hours with EAB. My name is Michael Koppelhofer and I serve as vice president for marketing programs here at EAB. And I am joined today by my friend Madeline Reneer, who's the Dean of Enrollment Management for EAB.
SPEAKER_02
Hello, Madeline. Hey, Michael. Thanks so much.
It's great to be here with you.
SPEAKER_01
Likewise, and especially great because we just recently hosted another episode of Office Hours at EAB, which was so much fun. Just a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about channel overload, the range of digital channels that today's students are using to learn about and narrow down the list of colleges they're applying to. So that was fun.
But I think we are up to discuss another topic today, another trend that is having a pretty big impact on the world of enrollment for students, for families, and of course for institutions. And that is the move to test optional admissions.
SPEAKER_02
So you, boy, you've got that in one. And it's great. You know, we love these to be sort of 20 to 30 minute episodes.
And I feel like for many of you in the trenches, you can spend days trying to plumb the depths of what that test optional movement looks like, what it will really mean going forward, what's the best way to prepare your staff and your institution for it. So we're pretty excited to have that chance to talk about it. And you know, a lot of things happened last year in the pandemic.
There are a lot of fast moving decisions and institutions and individual teams are to be commended for the incredible way that they were able to adapt quickly. But as there are some continuing trends that we're observing at EAB and certainly through our partner base, you know, we know that test taking is kicking up again. But students also have been a little, become a little bit more sophisticated about managing their scores and thinking about whether to submit them or not.
So you have to think about that. And you also have to think about if you had a short term shift to test for optional, what's your, what's your case of proof? What's the timeframe you're operating in? And then really, we also want to talk a little bit about what's happening in the broader market and how that's impacting students and families when they're thinking about not just testing, but about submitting their tests and how it is that institutions can do every thing possible to help in the manner in which they communicate to students and families.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that is a complicated situation to be sure. I don't envy our enrollment leaders who are trying to navigate this landscape. And I certainly like you have seen a bunch of enrollment teams do a really great job pivoting on short notice to figure out how they can afford the maximum of opportunity to students and families given all the disruption in the country and the world.
Why don't we start actually with some pretty basic definitions because test optional is college and admissions jargon, but it may not be as clear to some as we might think. So, well, and tell me what is test optional? What's a test optional policy?
SPEAKER_02
So I have a technical term for test optional, Michael, and that's hot mess because I think the description of test optional and how that's kind of played out for families, it's an unintentional and a well intentioned hot mess, but I think a hot mess nonetheless. So let me just sort of start at their range of the most defined to lesser defined and help me if you think I'm forgetting any of our permutations or combinations. So there's truly test blind.
So think about the new policy that the University of California has announced where you're not going to submit a test score. You're not going to be able to submit a test score if by some miracle you talk about a test score that people will not hear or see the test score. It a test score will absolutely not be part of the admission decision.
So truly blind, truly oblivious to any score that a student may or may not have. Then when you slip into test optional, there are what I call the many flavors of test optional. So in many cases, the test optional could mean I can choose to apply without submitting a test score for admission to all programs or some programs.
Some programs in there are still some preferences of some programs to continue to require students to have a test score. So that's a kind of a combination out there. Then add on the layer of potential for an academic or merit scholarship.
So at some institutions, test optional means also full consideration for academic scholarships. At other institutions, it means full consideration for a range of academic scholarships, but not all of them. And if you want our most, this is my word, elite scholarships, maybe the couple of full tuition grants or the president's or chancellor's award, you would have to submit a test score to be considered for that.
One of my personal favorites is you may certainly choose to apply test optional, but you'll need to write an essay instead in lieu of your SAT or ACT scores. And I've kind of laughed every time I see that because there's probably no young person on the planet that really wants to take the SAT or ACT, but they'd probably rather do that than write another essay for college application. And this would be a separate essay on top of any essays required through the common application or an institutional application.
SPEAKER_01
That's so true, Madeline. And it's funny, as you say that, because I have so much sympathy for everyone involved because the schools that are imposing these requirements are doing it for a very good reason, which is that they want a different measure to assess academic quality or they need to use tests to assess academic quality to award limited scholarships and grants. And yet if you are the student sitting on the other end of that, it is just listening to you explain that can be so confusing.
And I have to think that is a barrier for some kids to even apply when they see that kind of complexity.
SPEAKER_02
Well, I think that I think the problem is, so when you think about a student's life when he or she is a senior in high school, and I have a short list of colleges and I'm applying, they still have a full-time job, which is being a high school student. And we hope doing well, continuing to acquire knowledge so they'll actually be well set up to be successful when they get to the college of their choice. So the more that we make it complicated for them as they apply, meaning having a lot of rules, caveats or asterisks, those are my favorites, the harder it is we make it for students to actually comply.
You have to impugn good intent. They're trying to do the right thing. Their parents are trying to do the right thing.
But in some cases, it almost requires an advanced degree to understand testing policies on some websites that I've had the chance to look at. And when you talk about barriers, Michael, I think that's a really important word. And some schools have adopted sort of what I would call the most liberal of policies.
I would call it the everybody wins policy. And it's sometimes referred to as do no harm. So submit a test score if you like, don't submit a test score if you don't like.
We will consider you for admission with whatever we have. If you choose to submit a test score later, if that were to potentially qualify you for a larger scholarship, you would get it. If your test score was a little bit concerning, we're still not removing an offer of admission.
So the do no harm situation is actually, I think in many ways, other than the University of California being completely blind, is the most family friendly because I don't have to figure out what's best. If I signed up and asked to have my test score sent to you, then I don't have to have a personal meltdown like, oh, your heavens, now that I have my score and they have it too, this could be a disadvantage for me. So if schools have the capacity to think on the most liberal side, we'll consider you with a score, we'll consider you without a score, we're going to offer you admission, give you the benefit of the doubt.
The tie always goes to the applicant in this case. And it means that I don't have to read all of the rules that the wise and where for us. I can just either send a score or not send a score and I don't have to worry about it.
And I think to your point about barriers, Michael, I think in the long run, this will kind of shake out. You know, people had to make decisions very quickly. They did the very best that they could.
They're trying to serve both the families and students who are applicants in their own internal communities. I think over time, as institutions who went on pilot projects, get more information. They'll either develop a level of comfort or they won't.
And things will sort of normalize. I think it will get better. But in the short term, it's not easy, I think, for families.
SPEAKER_01
So so why is it then that many institutions are creating these versions of test optional policies that are not as family friendly? So I really liked the version that you articulated, which was the it's fine if you submit, it's fine if you don't benefit of the doubt goes to the applicant. But so many of what we see in working with our partners when we look at schools across the country is a much more complicated version, more akin to what you were explaining earlier, where you can not submit a test score, but then you need to do something else instead, or you cannot submit a test score unless you're applying to the School of Nursing or unless you want to scholarship. So why are schools ending up in this more complex version? Like what's behind that?
SPEAKER_02
Well, I think I sort of alluded to it a minute ago. You know, enrollment leaders are serving many masters. You know, they're serving the president, they're serving their board, they're serving faculty members.
And it's interesting, as I was prepping for this webinar, I went back and read a monograph by one of the testing agencies. And they actually said that test scores have proven to be quite predictive of success in certain majors. And I think, well, you know, that's probably true.
And my guess is it's in those same majors that faculty have been the most resistant. And when I say resistant, what I really mean is anxious about if I don't have this X criteria, what will be the criteria that will replace it effectively. So we make good decisions because no one wants students to come and not be successful.
You know, it's not all self-interest. Some of this really is interesting in student success. So I think that in some cases that it's inertia.
In some cases, it's anxiety about what will replace the test score that I know and love. And that is very predictive for me if I'm a faculty member, you know, making decisions about admission to a particular college or program. And I think sometimes, you know, test scores are one of the few things that are sort of nationally quantifiable because GPAs are not, curriculums are not.
I mean, if you have advanced placement takers and test scores, you know, that sort of thing is nationally scalable. I think some institutions have been worried, frankly, about what will be my rating in U.S. News and Global Report. And even though test scores have diminished definitely in that criteria, they're still there.
And some people still believe that that's very important, even if students and parents are feeling like maybe that's less important. So I think you're, you know, it's sort of all, it's kind of all over the map. And I think it's an opportunity internally for some great conversations about what is it we really need, what's in our best interest so we make sure that we have students who will be successful, but also what's in that best interest of the families and students for serving.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, what you're saying really resonates with me, Madeline. My, my, I don't know if you know this, but my dad was a college professor and his concern was for the quality of the students because he wanted the students to succeed. And he also wanted to be able to teach at the level that he preferred to teach at.
And so thinking about how some of the constituencies on campus are very nervous about losing test scores as an indicator of ability really makes sense to me. And I have to imagine, like you're saying, the way to get past that is through a real conversation where you talk about other pathways by which the school might assess the ability of potential students as well. And I, as our listeners no doubt know, you are a experienced practitioner of missions and enrollment.
And so I, I view you as an expert on this topic. How might a school assess applicants academic ability in a way that they really believe in other than looking at their SAT score or their ACT score?
SPEAKER_02
Well, the thing that's hard is so whether one likes an SAT score or an ACT score or not, they're sort of, they're nationally scalable because as one of the things we love about our great country, you know, all education is local. So curriculum is local and how many APs if you offer AP or IB or some other form of accelerated education, all of those choices are made at a local level. The grading scales are at a local level as are, as is the naming convention for what high school courses are actually called.
That can be the most challenging sometimes for application readers. Like what is this? Is this a history course? Is it a, you know, social science course, you know, help me understand? Because teachers have some very creative ways of naming, which is cool. And it gets students in those courses, but it doesn't mean outsiders always understand.
So I think, I think the key hurdle that everyone is trying to overcome is if everything else is sort of up for grabs and not scalable in a national way, how, what kind of a rubric can you create that will be effective and help to serve as a proxy for those SAT or ACT scores? So if a student has taken a number of AP courses or IB courses because they're offered at their school and they have scores that you can see and or at least at a minimum, you can see the grade they earned in the course. Often that is can provide a level of comfort because there's a set curriculum that that is attached to that. And a college professor could feel some confidence about it.
But gosh, let's say that I'm Madeleine and I live in a rural in a rural area of Iowa or in Indiana. And and my school is a very good school and I love my teachers, but we don't have AP or IB courses because it's just not big enough to offer that. Well, the challenge is for colleges and universities to live where they live, you know, and so the idea is has has Madeleine maximize all of the potential courses available to her in her community.
And maybe maybe she's that for a college course at a community college if there is one proximal to try and, you know, for academic enhancement. So I think it's leaning on your admission team who are very skilled at this to try and have a good understanding about the local educational background and did Madeleine take everything that was possible. And we have had other applicants from Madeleine school and we either had success with those students or we didn't.
If they came to campus and were not very successful academically, all of those things, which again, are much more subjective.
SPEAKER_01
But I can't hear you say that because because because as I was listening to you, I was just thinking like that in some ways offers a more personalized view of every applicant, right? Because it accounts for the local circumstances, but it also so much more subjective and so much more hard work. It really helps you understand in some ways what the value of the SAT and ACT are two admissions professionals because it does take out a certain amount of the school level subjectivity. It does provide a bit more than a bit of a shorthand for assessing academic ability.
So in some ways, like you might argue that there's more fairness, at least less subjectivity in a standardized measure than in what any given admissions counselor might think of a child's high school. And so it's kind of funny that in some cases schools are pursuing test optional policies motivated by fairness in addition to responding to the overall pandemic circumstances. And in those cases, they might be moving from one form of subjectivity to another form of subjectivity.
SPEAKER_02
Well, you're right. I mean, you know, when when colleges and universities talk about assessing candidates holistically, I mean, if you're really cynical, holistically is just another word for subject because there's so much subjectivity. And especially if you're talking about the most competitive schools that are admitting, you know, five or, you know, seven percent of their applicants, you know, a much higher percentage of the candidates are academically qualified and would be personally great contributors.
So it really does sort of get down to, you know, did you need a bassoon player? Everyone needs a bassoon player every year. This, you know, it's this sort of thing. So it's many of these factors that students don't actually control.
And it doesn't matter how many times enrollment leaders talk about one of the key factors and the most highly competitive places for admission in terms of who gets in and who doesn't is who applies. And you don't control that. You can only control the piece that you do.
But of course, that just drives families crazy because they have worked so hard, you know, taking tough courses, getting good grades, you know, having summer jobs and summer experiences that really prep you for having a resume that will look very exciting when you're applying to college. And then it's like, well, sure, but I don't control what everybody else did. But that can be that can be a little bit daunting, I think.
But, you know, the other thing we haven't really mentioned, and I just want to touch on this for a second is in a research project that we did at EAB, a pretty substantial percentage of students from underrepresented groups told us last year that they specifically applied to schools that were test optional. And you have to stop and think about that for a minute. So we do know often for low income families, they test late.
They're only going to test once and they want to, you know, get as much knowledge under their belt. So if that was your strategy for the fall of 21, you were kind of screwed because you didn't really have the opportunity to test late or 20. And so to actually have students say, I chose schools, I particularly, I singularly applied to them because I didn't have to submit a test score.
That really hit to the couple of things that are, I think, deeply seeded in the psyche of many students. First of all, nobody really believes college admissions is fair. They didn't believe it before Varsity Blues, but they surely don't believe it now.
And because there's, you know, there's verifiable proof that people are buying their way in. And they also, I think, sometimes think that for the SAT, depending on my school, what high school I went to, or the ACT, that I may just not do well on it. You know, at my school, people tend not to.
And then that's a barrier for me. And it becomes a stigma that I have to live with. So I'm not going to, I'm not qualified to comment on any sort of racial or ethnic barriers of standardized testing, but there's a felt barrier.
And I think it's important for institutions to think about that a bit.
SPEAKER_01
I'm really glad you brought it that up, because that is the counterpoint about the fairness value of test optional policies. That is that there is empirical evidence in the world that in some cases, populations of students that are unrepresented tend to apply test optional at disproportionate numbers because of the barriers that you pointed to. And there is also other like ample literature suggesting that those same students tend to, on average, perform lower on standardized tests, even if their academic qualifications are identical and their future success is identical.
So there is that powerful equity argument to the test optional policies as well, which if, and whether it's because of the pandemic or it's because of a commitment to equity, you might argue that the schools that went test optional in these will try to communicate what they're doing as effectively as possible to try to try the results they want. And part of what I'm wondering, and I have something in my mind is when you seen schools we work with, other other colleges around the country, communicate test optional, irrespective of the specifics, how well do you think they're
SPEAKER_02
doing? I still think it's complicated. You know, again, I went out to some websites as I was thinking about this webinar, because I was thinking about some sites I visited early in the pandemic, just to try and help people who had to make a quick switch, you know, sort of think through how would you how would you share this information with families who are just completely freaking out about the possibilities. And what I realized is there still are a number of caveats out there.
And I was looking on one website today and they had they had kind of some broad header categories like what about this? What about this? What do you think is super helpful just in terms of finding? But in many places it was highlighted, talk with your admission counselor. And I thought, you know, I might be reading this at, you know, 2 a.m. because I'm a kid and I'm up late and I'm probably not. God bless.
I'm talking to my admission counselor at 2 a.m. And I was thinking it's hard if you actually have to talk to someone to figure out what's the best thing to do. And again, I don't want to minimize the value of human contact, but I also think that that this sort of simpler is better, more straightforward is better to try and have as few exceptions as possible.
You know, maybe you can find your way into the do no harm category because you would like to see some test scores. Maybe you want to go into the, you know, the University of California system, you know, to be entirely test blind. You know, we're just not going to be influenced by testing at all.
You know, it isn't that any one of those is the right answer, but both of them are much more straightforward to explain, especially test blind. Test blind is super easy. Some people are not going to believe you in the do no harm version, but I think it's worth a try.
SPEAKER_01
I could not agree more because I did it's funny. I did a similar exercise to you. I went and did some secret shopping for the the twenty twenty one version of test optional and I found that the the the places I dropped in on by and large did a pretty serviceable job explaining their policies.
But I think the difference is what are those policies? And it's unfortunately it's easier to say something clearer than to clarify a whole a a institutional policy that affects the whole campus. However, if I I completely concur that I think the right path is that if you're going to be test optional, that you figure out how to truly have as few exceptions as possible and do it in as clear and student and family friendly way as possible, which then requires you to come up with solutions like you're talking about earlier to those real needs. Like how do I allocate these scarce merit scholarships? If I don't have the test score to normalize, what are the other measures that you use?
SPEAKER_02
You know, another thing I just want to point out, Michael, is, you know, I've sort of been talking along like, you know, the places where you see challenges on websites are schools that had to make a quick decision. But that's not true. I actually researched some schools that had been historically test for optional.
And they were totally in the hot mess category of the way that they described it. So so what I guess my, you know, gratuitous advice would be, this is an issue, whether you had to make a quick switch or not. Because again, if you have that, you have to read way down into the pros on a web page to find out, oh, if I don't submit a test score, I'm going to have to write an essay.
Well, first of all, I think that's maybe not your best play. But I think having to go so far to find it is is difficult. And, you know, Michael, you and I talk a lot about communication.
Nobody reads very much. I'm feeling starting to feel that way myself. Like if you could have three bullet points or optional that basically covered like 95 percent of the water, it would be a huge win.
Whatever those bullet points were for your institution, because it would be right at the top. It would be easy to find. You could drop them in emails.
You could text them to people. And it would it would make your life probably as well as some family lives better.
SPEAKER_01
Totally agree. And yet I know for so many universities, for so many colleges, that's a that's an awfully tall order because of all the political complexities, all the stakeholders on campus that would have to align to make that happen. So wouldn't it just be easier to get rid of test option altogether? Once once the pandemic receives as we all hope that it will and just go back to test score required next year.
Do you see that happening a lot?
SPEAKER_02
Well, you know, so that is a super interesting question, because again, testing volume will will go back up. It has already gone back up. There was suppressed demand, most definitely.
The thing that's interesting, though, is I think that students and families got a lot more sophisticated about how to play my test score if I have one. And so I guess. Yeah, I guess you could say, sure, make everybody take it.
I do believe there's still this question of equity. And especially if I'm my family is of reduced circumstances and I'm going to wait and take the SAT as late as I possibly can or ACT. You know, I'm just I'm I'm not sure that it serves the mindset of that changing demographic of young people who are going to college.
First time freshmen, you know, much larger percentage come from diverse backgrounds, much more likely to be first in family, going to college, also more likely to come from constrained financial circumstances. So when you think about some combination of all of those factors, asking people to go back to something that that they're probably not all that comfortable with to start with, I'm not sure. I guess another this is a super less sophisticated way of saying it.
Once you open the barn door and all the horses ran out, it's hard to bring them back in. Again, there are places for whom testing is going to be super important and and students, the demand will be so great to go there. The students will be absolutely happy to jump through that hoop to throw their hat in the ring.
And I think that's a great thing. But I think in an environment where more and more institutions are looking for students, looking for ways and reasons to admit students rather than looking for reasons to exclude them, that thinking about staying test optional might be a good choice.
SPEAKER_01
I tend to agree with you that I think the test optional horses out of the admissions barn. That was my favorite metaphor of today's conversation. Given that that's the case, what are the I guess in summary, what are the three top pieces of advice that you would give to colleges and universities regarding test optional for the coming cycle and beyond?
SPEAKER_02
Well, I think let you know, let me just reiterate a couple of things that we've already hit on. I think wherever you land with policy, simpler is always better. So within the construct of your community, your culture and the environment in which you're operating as an as an enrollment team, the simpler that you can get your colleagues to buy in with you, that the better off you'll be in terms of your ability to to share that information.
I also think that there have been some super positive impacts. You know, I'm always looking for that silver lining in covid. One of the silver linings was the really positive impact on students from underrepresented groups and and institutions who had the pivot to test optional sign increase in diversity in their enrolling classes.
I consider that a huge win for students and for our country and for human potential. And then finally, I think family expectations have changed a bit. I think internal expectations that institutions are also in the process of shifting.
And I think it's that there's an opportunity for leaders to build on that, to build on what's the public sentiment, to bring that information home to the community and to work with faculty and all the interested parties to make sure that there are good acceptable proxies for test scores so that in a in a much more test optional or alternative world, the internal community feels really good about the results and feels positive about the students that they're serving and feels confident that they'll be able to get them through college and launch successfully.
SPEAKER_01
That's good. That's great advice. And particularly the last point you made, it's a it's a tall order, but it's it's worth the effort.
And I think it'll pay off in terms of any measure of enrollment results that colleges and universities care about. So I'm really glad that we had the opportunity to have today's conversation. I always enjoy our conversations recorded or not.
And I hope we get invited back because there's plenty of other important issues in enrollment for us to talk about.
SPEAKER_02
So, Michael, thank you so much for inviting me to have a chat with you. You know, it is always fun. There are a lot of exciting topics, so many great things that colleges and universities are doing nationwide that we love to shine a light on in these conversations.
And so thanks for having me. And until next time, and I'll I'll find another good metaphor for you. Can't wait.
SPEAKER_00
Thank you for listening. Please join us next week when we examine the impact of the recent bull market on university endowments and share tips for advancement leaders on how to preserve and protect their financial good fortune. Until then, thank you for your time.