SPEAKER_01
You're listening to the higher ed marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, donor relations, marketing trends, new technologies, and so much more. If you're looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this podcast is for you.

Let's get into the show.

SPEAKER_03
Welcome to the higher ed marketer podcast. I'm your host, Troy Singer. He's your host, Bart Kaler.

And today, our guest is Jera Tomes. She's the director of marketing and communications for the Sam M. Walton College of Business at the University of Arkansas.

Jera has a passion, a core belief of listening to your students' voice, really listening to your audience's voice, and that's how she approaches all of her marketing executions. Today, she shares with us a couple of really valuable and impactful programs that she's implemented in her short time at the University of Arkansas that all of us can glean from, both from the programs themselves, but also from the approach and carrying that on in our marketing.

SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I think that it was such a pragmatic and practical episode. I mean, we always try to do that. We tell our guests we're really trying to be able to give information and ideas to just about any size school, whether you've got 100 students or whether you've got, you know, 60,000, she delivered.

I mean, this was such a great episode and it's such a great conversation that is practical. It's very effective. She's done some amazing marketing based on listening and engaging with her students.

And so I'm really excited to share this with everyone. I think it's going to be a great conversation.

SPEAKER_03
Plus, she's someone like a lot of other higher ed marketers that has come from the corporate experience. So she brought a lot of that wisdom and knowledge to her current role. This is Jera Tomes.

Jera, we are so grateful that you've joined us today. And like most of our other conversations with our guests, we asked them to start the conversation by giving us something that they have recently learned that is interesting enough to share.

SPEAKER_00
Well, thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here. And, you know, one thing that I found interesting this week is actually not in the world of business.

I'm actually a big animal lover. So I follow a lot of, you know, social media accounts with animals. And one thing I found interesting this week is hippos cannot float and they cannot swim.

Whoa.

SPEAKER_03
Wow. Idea. Usually I don't dig deeper, but this one I'm going to have to because don't hippos spend a lot of time in water.

SPEAKER_00
Yep. And they just apparently they just walk along a riverbed and they just they physically cannot float and cannot swim. But I guess they're large enough and tall enough that they just walk along the riverbed and that's it.

SPEAKER_03
I love it. And that's something that I can astound my friends with this week. So Jera, thank you very much for sharing that.

Yes. So the conversation that we agreed to talk about is keeping your audience first and how you have leaned into that as a core belief and how you're making great impact at the University of Arkansas, the business school there with a program. And I don't want to get into it too much before asking you to share a little bit about your journey before you got into higher ed marketing, like a lot of our colleagues.

That wasn't the first job in higher ed that they got out of college.

SPEAKER_00
So I'm a two time graduate of the Sam and Walton College of Business here at the University and I like to tell people I'm from a razorback family through and through both of my parents came to the U of A. My younger brother followed me afterwards. So, you know, I've been a fan of the college and university in this area of Northwest Arkansas for a very long time.

So when I graduated out of undergrad, I actually stayed in Fayetteville, which back then, you know, 2010, the area was growing, but, you know, a lot of people were leaving at the time. And, you know, I stayed and worked for a then startup. I was employee number seven called Collective Bias and it was focused on shopper social media.

So kind of working with the first generation of influencers, which were bloggers to create engaging marketing content for brands and retailers. And so, you know, Northwest Arkansas is the home of Walmart, Tyson, which is the largest protein producer in the world, and then JB Hunt, which is a massive, you know, transportation and logistics company, along with over two to 300 Fortune 500 offices. So Proctor & Gamble, Coca-Cola, you know, all of that to support Walmart.

And so I primarily worked in client services with those brands. So Coca-Cola, Johnson & Johnson, Proctor & Gamble, Starbucks, you know, all of those putting together their influencer campaigns and really using those, especially mom blogger influencers to tell the brands, this is what we like, this is what we don't like, this is how we're going to promote it. So kind of started there and spent about five years there and then went to, actually went to Walmart.

So went to work for Walmart corporate, worked in recruitment marketing, which is basically marketing the jobs rather than marketing the products. And, you know, really worked on a lot of different things there from campus recruitment to technology recruitment, but really heavily focused on how do we tell the Northwest Arkansas story? How do we convince someone from California to move here and really highlight what's going on? So I started out with a lot of different projects, you know, I started out with a lot of different projects, you know, I started out with a lot of different projects, you know, I started out with a lot of different projects, you know, I started out with a lot of different projects, and that kind of got the attention of a couple of members of the Walton family who are very involved locally still. They are the grandchildren and children of Sam and Walton, the founder of Walmart.

So they're very involved in this area. And they kind of came to me and they said, hey, we really like what you were doing there. We'd like you to expand that a little bit.

And they asked me to start, you know, kind of a media platform, app, website, social media channels, email, eventually a podcast, bringing together everything to eat, see and do in Northwest Arkansas. So it was called Leisure List and ran that for four years and kind of started the entire process with they wanted me to build it for young professionals, especially because there are a lot of great things for families in this area. And there are for young professionals, there just wasn't a conversation around it.

And so they asked me to focus on that. And I said, well, the only way that I can do that is talk to fellow young professionals like me. So I pulled together friends and co-workers and acquaintances that were considered young professionals, fed them lunch and, you know, recorded them in a focus group and said, what would you want? What would you need? You know, would you want this customized things like that? And that's how Leisure List, you know, came together in the beginning and all the way throughout.

We were just connecting with our customers. So that's kind of been the basis of a lot of my career. I completed my graduate degree, my MBA when I was at Walmart and then served on a couple of boards for Dean Waller here.

And then when the opportunity came out to lead the marketing and communications for the college, it just seemed like the perfect fit.

SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I was joking with someone earlier today that none of us sat around as eight-year-olds and said, I can't wait to be a higher-administrator. And that's just not something that happens is that we don't dream about being in this career. People, you know, start as an admissions counselor.

Sometimes they go through careers and all types of things. And I love the fact that everything that you talked about obviously got you ready for what you're doing today. I'm going to get into that in just a second.

But I also love the fact that I tell people a lot of times and I'm just going to kind of touch on this and then I'm going to ask you a question. There's so much to learn from what's going on in the corporations around us. They have a lot more money.

There's a lot more pressure from Wall Street to get their numbers. So they pivot and they move much quicker than a lot of us do in higher ed. And so I think being able to be in that experience and being able to bring that into your experience or be able to read books or just be an observer and a learner of business pays off for being a higher-ed marketer.

So I know a lot of what you talked about was this idea of, you know, learning to listen to the customer, you know, listening to those blogger moms, being able to have those focus groups of people that were of the age target age. So tell me a little bit about how that has influenced your passion or maybe your philosophy and how you're listening to the Walton School of Business customer there at the University of Arkansas and how that's making an impact.

SPEAKER_00
I mean, I will say when I first came in, it was very overwhelming for me because we have so many different customers as the Walton College. We have students, alumni, faculty, staff, donors. We have all of these different audiences and they're being sent so many different messages in so many different mediums.

Some of it from us, some of it, you know, not from us. If they're alumni, especially or donors. And so I kind of came in at first and I said, okay, I want to speak to at least one person from every one of these groups of people and, you know, leveraged our development team to talk to key donors, leveraged, you know, our alumni association to talk to alumni.

And with students, I knew that I needed to talk to students and we started bringing in interns, which are, you know, amazing. But a lot of the interns, the skill set that we needed actually did not come from the Walton College. So we needed production assistance to work on audio video.

They're not Walton College. We needed, you know, graphic design students. And they are coming from, you know, the Fulbright College of Arts and Sciences.

So we were getting some student perspective, but not, you know, the Walton College student perspective. And I wanted to have undergraduate, graduate kind of everything. And so I was trying to think of, you know, how do, how do I engage with these students and, and have a more regular dialogue with them and, and really hear the truth of what they think about our marketing and communications, because, you know, they may be nice to your face and say, Oh, you're doing a great job.

But there may be some areas for improvement that you really need to hear. So I actually had the opportunity to partner with one of our marketing professors who I actually had in grad school. Her name is Ann Belequette, and she teaches this kind of project based strategic marketing course for upper level juniors and seniors.

And they take on a project during the semester for one client, they kind of split into groups of usually about four to five students, and they act as a mini agency, and they have to, you know, take a problem and, you know, create a solution. They put together a creative brief. They, you know, treat you as a client, they present to you, they get feedback throughout the semester.

So it's really real world applications. And she's worked with everyone from, you know, a local beer producer to a vendor of Walmart, and I just approached her and I said, Hey, do you think that you could help us with marketing and communications with the college? Do you think the students would enjoy this project? And she said, Actually, they do the best when they are the customer. So I think this is perfect.

And so, you know, we, we kind of gave them the challenge. I came in on the first week of class, and I said, Look, we have a challenge in reaching students. And I want to be honest with you about it.

I want to hear your real feedback. I want you to talk to your fellow students as you're doing research freshman all the way to senior. And I really want to know what do you struggle with daily? What do you want more information about what is something that you want to learn? What do you want to learn about that you don't know about? What are classes that you want to hear? You know, just kind of everything.

And we ended up, we had 20 presentations all together just over 20. And we did give them the little incentive that the top four teams were able to present to the dean as well. And we kind of had an overall winner that they could use on their resumes, which is always nice.

And we were just blown away by the presentations. I mean, we had some who targeted seniors who said, Here's a way to help seniors get jobs by communicating in this way and putting together this video content. We had some who addressed freshmen.

We had some who said, you know, this is a how how you should change the career center messaging. So we had so many different ideas. And we were able to pull from each one of them consistently, not surprisingly, a lot of them said social media.

That's a big thing. And they said, you need to reduce the number of your accounts you need to be doing reels you need to be doing student takeovers and student highlights and a student email. And I didn't think they wanted an email to be honest with you.

I kind of challenged and I said, Are you sure? And so many groups said, I want to cut down on the number of emails that I'm getting. So if you can put it in one that's easy to read that's engaging that's brief, I would read that. Okay. And so, you know, we, we implemented so many things from the class. I mean, we're still implementing a lot of them.

I have the presentations in my desk that I'll pull back to a lot. And I mean, it just transformed the way that we were communicating with students and luckily it's been working, which is always good.

SPEAKER_03
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. Today's podcast is brought to you by Ardeo Education Solutions. Ardeo helps colleges and universities increase access to education while giving students and families financial peace of mind.

Ardeo's loan repayment assistance programs known as LRAPS help students with modest incomes repay their federal student, parent plus and private loans. Ardeo's LRAPS gives students the confidence they need to enroll and are a win-win for your institution. To learn more about Ardeo and see case studies from institutions like yours, visit ardeo.

org. That's a-r-d-e-o dot org.

SPEAKER_02
Welcome back. Let's rejoin the conversation right here on the higher ed marketer. Well, the thing I really like about what you did and I'm-and I'm-and I'm pulled this out because I remember Brian Kenny, who's the chief marketing officer at Harvard Business School.

He was on episode 50 with us. And, you know, he had a background in-in-in health-healthcare. I think he was at a pharmaceutical company and-and he told me, he said, People don't realize that the hardest career there is is higher ed marketing.

He said, because you have so many different, you know, different stakeholders, you've got everybody. And I thought that was fascinating. And-and as I think about-and I hear what your story of engaging with that marketing group and engaging with that-with those students who not only were the focus group, but they were also the marketers that were helping you drive that, I think that's brilliant.

I'd love to see more of our listeners kind of engage with their business departments that way. I mean, I-I've got-I'm on an advisory committee for a small private school out in California where they bring in outside people like myself to-to our business people to be an advisory to those students. And so the fact that you're doing that within your own college, I think, is an excellent, excellent way to do that.

And I-I'm also reminded too of, um, we had a pre-interview with a-with a guest that's going to be up in a few weeks, Kyle Campbell. So he's a-he's an education marketer based in the UK. And-and he was talking about this new idea of-of audience-audience-centric marketing.

And I love the fact that that's exactly what you were doing, is that you were kind of engaging your audience and learning from them. And-and sometimes it wasn't necessarily what your gut feel was, but you were leaning into that and trusting them. And I love that.

And I think that's a great example of-of some really good things that are-that are going on.

SPEAKER_00
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And sometimes, you know, you have to be ready for the hard feedback because we had some presentations that said, okay, the-the way that you're doing the Instagram, this is not it. And we each-and-and some of them were nicer about it than others.

And-and I could see my social media manager next to me, you know, she's kind of cringing and she was-she was-she was. And-and she was like, okay, I get it. All right, I get it.

But- Well, and that's one of the challenges of higher ed is that we're kind of stuck in the way that we've been doing things for a long time.

SPEAKER_02
Yes. And it's difficult to-it's not only difficult to get, you know, out there and do something new, but it's also difficult to get the buy-in of everyone else. And I mean, you've obviously got a great dean that you've mentioned highly.

And-and that makes a big difference when you've got leadership that-that believe in what you're doing and trust in what you're doing. And I think that that's, you know, that's one of the skill sets that we all need to learn is how-how can we better get those relationships and that-that earn that trust so that when somebody says, you know, we ought to do something on TikTok, there's not a meltdown in the-in the school to do that. So-

SPEAKER_03
Jara, would like to hear if there were any more outcomes from the suggestions that the students made. I also would love to learn about the presentations that were chosen to be presented directly to the dean.

SPEAKER_00
The key things that were chosen from us, and they kind of involved social media and the student newsletter as, you know, two top things that we can implement immediately. And they had so many great ideas for them. I mean, the increase in reels was one that was really interesting.

They told us we need to see more video content. It's not only, you know, doing well on Instagram. Instagram really likes it, but we like engaging and interacting with it.

And they said, you know, we don't just want you to make a reel. We want you to make something fun that we will engage with, that we will have fun with. And so we started doing fun things around campus.

Probably our top reel right now is there was a trend on TikTok with, you know, someone going on a trip to a local city, someone going in a boat with the Titanic music and they're all by themselves and all of that. It's very funny. And we actually did that with our dean.

We recorded him kind of waving and, you know, he's in the boat. No idea what's going on. He just trusts us that we're going to do, you know, the right thing.

And, you know, it says going back to campus and no one's there. It's that week after the students leave and before faculty and staff are gone and it's just, you know, crickets on campus. It's very empty.

And it did so well, not only with the students, but alumni and faculty were commenting just saying, this is gold. This is so funny. I love this because it involved our dean.

And so, you know, bringing in more of that funny content. We actually have a reel coming up next week. I don't know if you've heard, but the hot thing on all college campuses is a Stanley Cup.

And so we've seen it across, especially females. It's a Stanley. Like I have one.

I don't have the one with the straw that they love, but, you know, what I'm talking about. Yeah. There's going to be a funny reel about, you know, how many Stan Lee's can we spot on the Walton. And it's so relatable and funny.

And, you know, we picked up the Little Miss trend and it was like Little Mister running late to his finite final because of the parking ticket. And we had so many comments from students saying, you didn't have to call me out like that. It was so relatable.

And, you know, we get those content ideas from our interns. Yes. But, you know, also from our student marketing advisory board, which I'll get to in a bit. But, you know, they, they engage and they give us that content and same thing with the student newsletter.

So we set up that weekly student newsletter, but we set it up using a platform called Axios HQs. Axios is a media platform primarily founded by the same person who founded Politico. So it's very smart, very brief, you know, very strong communication.

And they have this product that helps you write smart, brief, engaging emails. And so we signed up with them and, you know, have set up not only the student newsletter, but our MBA newsletter, our internal faculty staff newsletter, all of that through Axios. And what it does is it kind of breaks up every quote unquote story into a card and it will evaluate what you're typing.

And it will say, hey, this is a little bit long. Here's how you could make this more smart and brief. You could bullet point this, you could add go deeper, you could, you know, shorten this sentence.

And so it kind of uses some algorithmic, you know, machine learning to help you write those better emails. And it tells the reader at the top, this is how many words this email is, and this is how long it's going to take you to read it. So it's going to take you three and a half minutes to read this email.

And I think our students really love seeing that because they're like, I have three minutes. Okay, I can read, you know, that. And so, you know, in our student email, it's actually written by a student.

So I have a content writing intern. She actually is, you know, an agriculture communications major, and she writes our email every week with, of course, editing from me and input. Right. But, you know, we get information from around the Walton College of, you know, scholarships are coming up or this competition is coming up for students or don't forget that, you know, you have to register last days today, that kind of thing. And so we kind of set it up, including different sections, like one big thing that every student at Walton needs to know right now.

Reminders for the week, here's ways to get involved on campus. So it could be registered student organizations, things like that. This week in career, so we'll highlight jobs that the students can get that they can apply for right now or career fair, a student spotlight.

We always have a student spotlight. And then one last fun thing, and that it's usually something in Northwest Arkansas, it could be outdoor recreation related because we're a big outdoor rec area and we have an outdoor rec content creator. So that helps.

And we send that out to about 7000 plus undergrad students averages about a 35 to 37% open rate and that's amazing click through rate, which for Gen Z is pretty good on an email.

SPEAKER_02
It's pretty good for just about anybody. The thing I really like about that is that not only are you are you doing that, but I like the fact that you're using the channels for different things. You know, you've got transactional information on your newsletter.

You're still showing the student spotlight and you've got that fun thing at the end. So, you know, it's primarily a source of information. You're pushing that you're using some of your reels and some of your social media is more of what I like to call edutainment where it's the idea that hey, we're having fun, but we're going to educate you.

We're having a laugh or poking fun at ourselves, but yet we're still going to let you know about some things and we're going to keep you engaged. And I think that's where a lot of times we miss as high-red marketers is that we think that we have to be all things to everybody in every channel. And what happens is it ends up watering everything down because I mean, if you started, you know, putting all kinds of silliness into the student newsletter and it became, you know, 18 minutes long instead of three minutes, well, that would lose what you were trying to accomplish.

And so I really like the way you guys have thought that through. And certainly the student marketing advisory board is helping you with that. They're helping you kind of get your mindset in that way.

Tell us more about why you even created that. What was the big idea?

SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think it was, it was going off of the class project and I kind of said, wow, we got so much good student feedback, but we can't do that every semester. They can't work on our project every semester. And so I kind of thought, you know, our interns are great, but again, we can't have all Walton interns for the work that we need in our offices.

So what can we do to engage with students on a more regular basis? And I just said, you know, we have alumni advisory boards. We have a few alumni advisory boards. I used to sit on them and we would advise the dean on, you know, things that were happening within the college.

So why can we not do that with students? And so, you know, I put together an application, put it in the student newsletter, put it on social media. And I said, look, we want students who have an opinion about the Walton College, who want to contribute, who want to be a larger part and, you know, really see their work and their opinions implemented by the college and are just really passionate about the college and the experience that they've had. And we opened it up to freshmen, sophomores, junior seniors, you know, it doesn't matter where you're from.

It doesn't matter what, you know, class you're in all of those things as long as they were Walton College students. And we wanted ideally to have a good cross-section of different majors because we knew that we would have a lot of marketing majors to sign up. We knew that and we did.

But we also had, you know, information systems, supply chain management, accounting, finance. And I honestly, when I put it up, I said, I really hope we get 10. I'd love to have 10, you know, sign up.

And we had 55 that applied, which was crazy to me. And so we had to filter through them. And, you know, on the application, I put on the application, what are a few ideas that you have just to, you know, kind of challenge them and say, how would you improve our marketing and communications? And so we went through all of those answers and, you know, what were their ideas? And we tried to get a good cross-section of freshmen all the way to seniors just to have different perspective.

And we ended up doing interviews with them. So we interviewed 35 of them, which was a lot. And, you know, we just said, we're going to interview you, talk a little bit more about it and your ideas.

And we didn't give them a lot of detail, but we just said, you know, we're going to interview you and talk a little bit more about this. And so many of them showed up in suits. It was so cute to me because we didn't tell them.

We didn't tell them how to dress. We just said, you know, we're going to interview you. And we know we trust our students that they're going to be professional.

But I just assumed, you know, maybe jeans and a nice top or something, which would have been completely fine. But so many showed up in suits. We saw them nervous outside of the door.

And it was just, you know, they were really excited about it. And we ended up selecting 14 of them, two freshmen all the way up to four seniors and, you know, everything in between. They're from everywhere from Texas to Germany.

And some of them are transfer students even. So they transferred from another college on campus to the Walton College or, you know, externally, even into the University of Arkansas. And they gave so many different perspectives.

It was so hard for us to choose, honestly. They were so good. And, you know, and we are going to have them meet once a month.

So our first meeting is next week, actually. So we'll meet in person once a month. And then virtually we'll email them for, you know, different opinions in between.

And so next week, we will be focused on social media and we'll ask them, you know, various questions like, what are you seeing that's trending right now that we should be aware of that we should implement? What should we avoid? Like what are new platforms that we don't know about? And even certain things like Twitter, you know, we sometimes struggle with Twitter and should we still be on Twitter? And we want to get their opinion of what would you want to see? What do you do on Twitter? And, you know, we'll kind of have that ongoing feedback loop with these students. And it's something that they can put on their resume. It's very, you know, it's a big deal that they're on the inaugural board.

And then as seniors graduate or, you know, as schedules change, sometimes they have more hours than others. We'll evaluate every semester and we'll say, hey, do you want to continue on the board? Has this been a good fit? Or if they're graduating, you know, we'll have the opportunity for other students to apply and step in. So it'll kind of be a rotating board with constant opinions from the students, which is good.

SPEAKER_02
I'm so excited about that. And I think that'll be a great meeting next week.

SPEAKER_03
And what I like about it that any school can do this. And again, it's getting into your core philosophy of having focusing on your audience, focusing on that student voice. So we really appreciate you sharing these big impactful programs that you've implemented that has had wonderful outcomes for the business school there at the University of Arkansas.

If you would, to close our conversation, what would be a quick piece of advice that you could give someone that could be implemented right away?

SPEAKER_00
Something that you can do quickly is get in the classroom, get in the quad, talk with a student. It could be one student. It could be a group of four students.

Reach out to them and, you know, engage with them in some way. You don't have to go and ask them questions, but just get to know the students that are on your campus, that are in your school. And build that relationship with them.

You never know where that's going to lead. It could lead to future opinions. It could lead to future internships, you know, things like that.

But just, you know, start engaging with your audience. It's free. All it takes is your time to do it.

And, you know, if your audience is alumni, for instance, reach out to alumni on LinkedIn. That happened to me occasionally where, you know, the Walton College, before I worked here, some staff would reach out to me and say, hey, could you come and judge this competition? Do you want to come back and, you know, film this promo video? And I was always happy to come back because I had, you know, such a great experience here. And it kept me engaged with the college where eventually now I work here.

And I know, you know, all of those faculty and staff that reached out to me throughout the years that I would not have known before. So, you know, keep, I would say just take the time. Step out of your office.

I know it's hard to do sometimes, especially in higher ed. But, you know, just get to know student, alumni, whoever your customer is. Just take the time to start at least a little bit of dialogue with them.

SPEAKER_03
That's great. Jera, thank you very much for all that you've shared with us. What would be the best way for someone to reach you if they would like to make contact with you?

SPEAKER_00
I'm extremely active on LinkedIn. So that's probably the best one. It's Jera Nally Tom's.

There's not a lot of Jeras on LinkedIn, so it's pretty easy to find me. J-E-R-R-A, last name Tom's like the shoe. That makes it a little bit easier.

Or they can reach me. You know, my email is jtoms at walton.uark.edu. So I'm in the directory that, yeah, I'd love to stay connected with fellow higher ed marketers and just continue. You know, growing in this industry.

SPEAKER_03
Thank you, Jera. Bart, do you have any thoughts that you would like to share before we close our episode?

SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I just wanted to say thanks again, Jera. This has been a wonderful conversation. And I'm so impressed with what you guys have done and just the intentionality of listening to your students and listening to obviously your audience.

And I think that one of the things that you said there at the end that I just want to kind of wrap around and kind of put a bow on this whole thing is that the reason that you were able to do that I believe is that you've engaged with them earlier. So you are building those relationships because I mean, let's just say that we stay in our offices. We never engage with the students.

We don't go to the quad. We don't have lunch with students. And we just decide, oh, we need to go do what Jera said.

And hey, you know, assistant, please go find 15 students, have a meet here tomorrow at three and we'll get a meeting to go. They're not going to give you the same honest feedback. They're not going to be as authentic with what you're doing.

They're not going to be as authentic with you as if you have earned their trust by building relationship with them. And so I think that's one important thing that you said there at the end is spend that time, engage, build that relationship. Because I mean, at the end of the day, it's really going to be a benefit to them, to you.

It's a relationship to begin with. But then that's when you can really start to listen and hear people is when you have that relationship. And that's when you can really start to impact your marketing.

So thanks again, Jera. This has been a great conversation.

SPEAKER_00
Yeah, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03
The higher ed market podcast is sponsored by Kailer Solutions, an education marketing and branding agency and by Ring Digital, providing messaging directly to the devices of your customized audiences within higher ed. On behalf of Bart Kailer, I'm Troy Singer. Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_01
You've been listening to the higher ed marketer to ensure that you never miss an episode. Subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you're listening with Apple podcasts, we'd love for you to leave a quick rating of the show.

Simply tap the number of stars you think the podcast deserves. Until next time. Thank you.