SPEAKER_00
You're listening to the Higher Ed Marketer, the podcast for marketing professionals in higher education. Join us every week as we talk to the industry's greatest minds in student recruitment, donor relations, marketing trends, new technologies, and much more. If you're looking for conversations centered around where marketing in higher ed is going, this podcast is for you.

Let's get into the show.

SPEAKER_02
Welcome to the Higher Ed Marketer podcast. I'm Troy Singer with Ring Digital. And I'm Bart Koehler with Koehler Solutions.

And every week, Bart and I come together with a guest that we've chosen for a wonderful conversation to enhance the higher ed marketer community. Today, the conversation is with Ryan Correll. And the topic is crafting legacies through great storytelling via video.

But before we get into that conversation, I'm kind of excited to share that for the first time in a while, I got to hang out with Bart in person for a couple days at AMA, Higher Ed Marketer Symposium. It was a lot of fun. It was great to be together and

SPEAKER_01
just hang out and have dinner. And I know we were out late a couple nights for dinner. I think we joked that we typically are in bed by nine, but it was fun to kind of not only be with each other, but I mean, we've had so many great podcasts.

I think we're coming up on episode 150. I think this is 144. And just to be able to meet in real life, you know, as the young ins would say, IRL, the idea to be able to do that and to be able to feel like we had just these warm relationships with these people that we've gotten to know over the years through the podcast has been a blessing.

So it was a lot of fun. And this is another friend on this episode that I think is great to be able to have some time to sit down with Ryan and I met a few months ago. And, you know, I think that the first time that I met him, he actually drove down from Detroit down here to Indianapolis to spend the afternoon with me just to hang out and talk about higher ed marketing.

And it was so much fun. We learned a lot from each other. And I think that you'll get a chance to learn,

SPEAKER_02
as Troy and I did this afternoon as well. Yes, you've known him for a while. I just became familiar with him a week or so ago.

And his warmth and the way he tells a story will inspire you. I know it inspired me. Here's our conversation with Ryan Coral of InRoll Films.

Ryan, we welcome our guest into the podcast with an oral pop quiz every week. And our quiz is, if you could share something that you've learned recently that others would deem fun or interesting.

SPEAKER_03
I'm usually the fun guy, not a mushroom, but I'm going to share something interesting. Yeah, sorry. I just started a book called 10X is easier than 2X by Dr.

Benjamin Hardy and Dan Sullivan. And it is blowing my mind. I think for the longest time, I've like, man, I love big, hairy, audacious goals.

But for the people I coach and the people I hang with, I'm like, hey, let's come up with some realistic goals for our team instead of like these big, hairy, you know, crazy ones. But now I'm realizing that there's only a couple of ways to get to 10X. And this is what these guys are explaining in this book.

There's a lot of ways to 2X and that typically leads to just overthinking and not really doing the thing or, you know, incrementally increasing. So I'm having a full circle moment where I realize like, I need to start dreaming big, bigger. And I'm excited to see what happens because of that.

SPEAKER_02
Thank you. Again, can you give the author and the book title one more time?

SPEAKER_03
Yes, it's 10X is easier than 2X. It's by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy.

SPEAKER_02
Thank you. We are talking to Ryan Corl who is the founder of Enroll Films. And the short of it is he is helping colleges and universities tell great stories through film.

And to help set up our conversation and some of the tips and advice, best practices that you're going to provide for us. Can you share a little bit about the background of Enroll Films and maybe your experiences that led you to being able to provide the service? Yes, story. It's my favorite.

20 years ago,

SPEAKER_03
a little over 20 years ago, I was this punk kid. I'm just a punk adult. And I was kind of just trying to figure life out as most of us are.

And my background, I grew up in a divorced home. My parents got divorced when I was in seventh grade. And I felt like I was alone from seventh grade through graduation.

Meaning like we live with my dad. He worked midnight. It was hardly around.

And so I had to figure out a lot of things on my own. And I surrounded myself with what I thought were amazing friends. And we did a lot of fun stuff through school.

And it wasn't until close to graduation that I started thinking about my future. And I didn't really know what I wanted to do. All my friends were going to college.

I was staying home. I was going to attend local university. And even in like during that time as I was searching and trying to figure out like my purpose in life, I was being asked all of these hard questions.

I had this like trajectory change in my own personal life. And really was introduced to this person named Jesus that I guess is like sort of famous. And a lot of people have heard of him.

But like growing up, we didn't go to church. We just didn't do any of like religious type things. And I was introduced to this person.

And I was so intrigued. There was this family that was so dear to me in high school. And they really were the most authentic and beautiful people I'd ever met.

And I said, man, when I grow up and like have a family, I want to be like these people. They just love me. They accepted me.

They they counseled me. They were just there for me. And I just I learned so much from them.

So as I was was sort of, you know, I entered university and I'm just really trying to figure out what do I want to do with my life. And I had all this pressure. And I failed out miserably my first semester, I had like 1.

2 at this university. And I said, okay, well, since I'm paying for this, I'm going to go to this community college and I'm going to save a lot of money. And I got really involved at this church that I had started going to.

I was reading my Bible, I was involved with the youth group. And I'm doing all of these things that, you know, my friends are looking at me like, who are you? What are you doing? I'm like, I don't know. But I'm like, so excited about like, I feel like I'm finally figuring out some purpose for my life.

And it's like, to love, it's like to love my neighbor and to love my enemies. And like, all these things that I just thought were like ridiculous and why would I? But as I was having these experiences, I was growing in excitement. And I'm a little bit of a passionate person, as you might tell, I'm getting a little fired up, fired up right now.

Well, I had that second semester of school, I failed out of this community college, I got a 0.8 GPA. And it's because I was so involved with church. So the first semester, I'm like, getting super hammered and drunk with all of my college friends when they were coming home from school.

And then second semester, I'm like, you know, in Bible studies and all this. So my life like changed a lot in a matter of a few months. Well, then I took some time off, I went on a trip to Peru with a bunch of other high school and college age kids.

And that changed my perspective. I had a lot of time to be quiet and really reflect on what I wanted from my life. And really what I felt like God was what, how he wired me and how he created me to be.

And so I felt like after that trip, okay, I need to go back to school. I want to become a teacher. I want to influence people.

I want to just impact them. The way that I've been impacted by teachers in this family. So I came back and rolled at this community college again.

And I got a 4.0. Thank you. Because I finally had some purpose.

And in the meantime, I'm leading this Bible study. And there's a bunch of college age and a few high school students that are part of this thing. And it's just a fun way for us to have these deep conversations about the meaning of life.

And as I'm a part of this group, there's this, there's this kid in the group named Johnny and his dad was a minister at a church, but also the men's basketball coach at school called Rochester College at the time. Now it's Rochester University. And his dad was surprised that his son was going to this like college age thing where kids are talking about Jesus.

And he's like, who is leading this thing? And so Johnny says, Hey, Ryan Coral, we went to Oxford High School together. And his dad Garth said, I need to meet this young man. So I meet this guy Garth.

And he's asking me, he's just drilling me with all these questions. And eventually, whatever, for whatever reason, he's impressed with what he sees and what he hears. He's like, I want you to meet my boss who's the president of Rochester College.

And I'm like, okay, I've never met a president before. So I'm a little like, what is happening? So I go to the college, I go to the president's office, we're sitting at this like, you know, long oak table, whatever it was. And I'm a little intimidated.

And he starts asking me some similar questions. He shares me the vision for the school. And, and I'm sharing my story.

And he says, man, I would love for you to meet some of the students at this school. And I'm thinking like, I can't go to school here. Like, I can't afford it.

I'm paying for, I'm already enrolled. School starts next week. I'm going back to this community college.

I'm like, maybe one day I had a dream of like, man, I would love to attend a Christian university to be able to have a chapel and to be able to read the Bible in class and to learn things that I wish that I had for the previous decade of my life. But I just thought there was no way. And he's like, no, just calm, I want you to meet some students.

So I said, okay, fine. So I showed up the next couple of days, they were having this orientation to give me a lanyard, they hand me this little manila envelope, I'm signing papers, I open the envelope and there's a little key in it. And I'm like, okay, what is this key? They're like, oh, that's your room key.

And I said, oh, I'm commuting, I live like 20 minutes away. So I'm just going to drive home the next couple of days for this event. Like, no, no, that's your room for the semester.

And like, what are you talking about? I'm clueless. So anyway, the dorm parent Debbie comes over and she says, Oh, didn't they tell you? And I said, tell me what, like, Oh, you, you have a full scholarship, fully paid room, board, school, everything for the next four years, if you want And I was just like, what? Like, I mean, I didn't know that that was a thing. I didn't know that was a part of the discussion or anything like that.

And so in that moment, everything changed for me. I ended up going to that school for four years. And thanks to Garth for seeing something in me and making that introduction.

And, you know, I met my wife at that school, I met my dearest friends

SPEAKER_01
at that school and, and so much more. So what a great story. I love stories like that because and obviously you're a storyteller.

So I think everybody just got to experience a little bit of that. But I think what that does, I mean, you have just illustrated, I think, what a lot of first gen students go through, what a lot of Latino students go through. There's just that story is embodied in so many other places that I see throughout different things, whether it's at a faith based school or whether it's at a different type of school.

I think the power that you just shared in the way that you were so authentic with that is, is so good. And I think that I really like the fact that, you know, just about how that all came together, I'm guessing, and I'm not, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but as you reflect on that, you know, those types of things kind of made you who you are today. But it also, I'm guessing drives your passion for what you're trying to do and what bring to schools to help them tell their stories.

Tell me a little bit

SPEAKER_03
about that. Yeah, it's, I've come full circle, you know, I graduated from Rochester College, Rochester University. I worked there for two years.

I worked in the enrollment departments. I somehow had convinced my boss to buy me a video camera and a computer so that I could start capturing some of the stories and the things that we were doing on campus. And I got to start shooting and editing.

And I fell in love with storytelling. And I said, man, I want to do this. And so eventually I left the school to start my own video company.

And, you know, we're in our 19th year of existence. And it's been incredible. But for so many years, you know, we have three kids now, our oldest is 16.

We have a 13 year old and an eight year old for so long in my mind. I'm like, our kids don't need to go to college. Like if they, if they get passionate about something or, you know, there's, there's courses they can take, there's YouTube videos that they can watch, they can do anything that they want.

They don't have to spend all this money for college. Well, now, all these years later, it was about a year and a half ago, the university came to me and said, hey, we have a donor that wants to highlight Garth's life as a basketball coach and somebody who just has given his life to this university. Would you like to tell this story? Would you like to film this documentary? And I'm laughing.

I'm like, are you serious? Like the guy who I'm doing this work today because of Garth, so to be able to tell his story, I'm like, of course. So we start telling this story. I'm sitting across from Garth.

I'm getting emotional as I'm interviewing him, just thinking like, I can't believe I'm in this seat. I love my job, you know, the telling stories and getting to the heart and soul of like what people really care about, what makes them tick and all that stuff. It's just, it brings so much life to me.

And so I'm so grateful. Well, we finished this documentary and I have this epiphany of like, wow, the work in higher ed, my life changed in higher ed, my life before higher ed in my life, because of higher ed, the relationships, the professors, the people in my life that I learned so much for it's such a pivotal time in my life. I'm like, oh my gosh.

So that's kind of where the idea to launch and roll films came from was, was I realized my passion for this industry. I'm like, people need to be inspired by the stories that are inside of their institutions. But as a result, here I am all of this time later, I'm like, our kids must go to college.

I mean, we're not going to make them go. But my goodness, the, the, what that place allowed my wife and I and our friends to experience in what all campuses allow you to experience is like life on your own in a sort of a protected or a place that has some boundaries where you can really figure out who you are. And there's no, you can make mistakes at a university that you can't make when you're in your first real job and when you're in the real world.

And I'm just thinking about, you know, my 16 year old son and I'm like, I really want him to experience community life in a controlled environment. I want him to experience friendships that are so different than the friends that he has in high school and to really experience life in a whole other way. So my own thinking of, you know, how important higher ed was for my own life is now like, oh man, everybody needs to know, and they can make their informed decision.

But I've got a passion that that's pretty hard to quench at this. I think you bring up some really good points,

SPEAKER_01
because I think that there's that, that quintessential life experience that the traditional four year has. I mean, I know a lot of people, there's a lot of options, none of them are right or wrong, but there is something to be said about learning more than just academics. And I think that, you know, being in community, being in the dorm room, being with other people 24 seven, you kind of grow up pretty quick and you have to kind of figure out how you're going to be responsible, how you're going to deal with conflict, how you're going to deal with these things.

And I think that it's a great lab and it's worked out very well for hundreds of years with this model, at least here in the states. And so I kind of think about that. And I think about, okay, that's a great story to tell.

But I also recognize that there are other stories to tell. And with the headwinds that we've been talking about on the podcast a lot recently with, with the enrollment cliff coming, with the disruption that AI is going to do. I think that, you know, and there's just so many other, you know, people are asking is the value of a higher education investment worth it.

So there's all these questions that are going on that are kind of pushing against this traditional idea of higher ed, the traditional idea of what you just described in your story. So all the more reason, I guess, that I think is how we have to tell our stories even better. We cannot have transactional websites, we can't have here's the course catalog, because people don't make decisions based on logic, they make decisions based on emotion, and they back it up with logic.

So is that what you find? And is that what you see in some of the work that you do with universities?

SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it's the power of empathy. And I think neuroscience proves that we make decisions based on emotion. So how we make people feel.

And that's why it's so important to be telling our stories, not just the story of like, you know, our university is the best, because, you know, we have these classes, and we have these facilities and these buildings and all these great offerings. It's like, okay, well, how is somebody's life different because of your institution? Like, what are they doing today? And how did they change? How do they start there? And where are they now? That's powerful. That's relatable.

And people see through that. And I think, you know, the newer generations that are coming up, they're even more sensitive to, is this real? Is this authentic? Is this seriously? And so the best way to go about that in my mind is to be telling your story. And then the other part to telling your stories is it allows the university to say, like, not everybody is an ideal fit.

Right? And the sooner you can connect with your ideal fit students, the easier it's going to be to keep them and to invest in them. Right? But if you're just comparing, if a student's comparing this school with that school, and, you know, everything kind of looks the same, what will become the biggest differentiator are the stories and the transformation that that institution is creating. Yep. I think you're right on it.

SPEAKER_02
If you could, Ryan, also tell us how documentary storytelling can fit into higher ed when it comes

SPEAKER_03
to fundraising and alumni giving. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the this documentary that we did for Coach Pleasant, it was there was a somebody who wasn't even a student and alumni of the university, but he believed so much in the legacy of Garth Garth is still alive. People always ask me, is he still alive? Yes, he is live.

He's been teaching at the school for over 50 years. He was a coach for over 40 years. And so anyway, this guy came forward and said, I want to invest in this story because I believe that it's powerful.

And I think it will impact other people's lives if they learn about Garth's story. So we tell Garth's story who lives and breathes the university's values. I mean, this guy has impacted so many basketball players over the course of decades.

He impacted my life and so many other students, and he's impacted this community. This community knows who he is. He has a basketball camp.

And so he just touches people from all over. This piece now is it's a 35 minute documentary that the university has. And it is the most non salesy marketing piece that I think any university could have because it's a story.

It's his story, but his story is the university story. And so now the university, they're having private screenings with certain families and inviting people, hey, watch this film and then people are moved. They lean in, they see the story and they see the impact in the potential or the legacy and the potential to be a part of that, to invite somebody to become a part of something that's bigger than themselves.

That's powerful. I mentioned to you guys this the other day. I was on a university's website and they're fundraising for a huge sports complex.

I mean, it's like they're trying to raise like, I don't know, 15 or $20 million. And so I was scouring all of their pages that were related to this fundraising project. And I didn't see a face.

I didn't see any photos of students or alumni or donor or anything like that. I didn't see any testimonials, any written, here's why we believe this is powerful, no social proof and no video. And in my mind, there's schematics, there's blueprints, oh, it's going to look like this and we're going to be doing this.

I'm like, you guys, if they had a story like Garth's where you could see the legacy that this guy has created and you hear from his previous players. And when the credits roll on this film, we had players submit like little videos to just talk about the impact that Garth had. So they're very just like real.

Oh my gosh, like these guys are crying and they're talking about how they're leading their families today and it's because of the impact that Garth had. So, you know, we've done a couple of screenings at like real theaters. We did this private VIP event, which was really cool.

So, you know, they invited the mayor and all sorts of, you know, fancy people we dressed up and it was this amazing event. And they've done a couple of screenings since then and they've done these in-home screening. So it has created opportunities that just don't come with having a sweet catalog and some nice pictures of like, hey, this is our campus, you should consider giving money.

It's like, man, there's so much more there. I think you're right. And it reminds me of

SPEAKER_01
the, I mean, I know a lot of our listeners have probably listened to this book. I've mentioned it before. It's Don Miller's story brand.

And I think that his whole point is who is the hero of your story. And so you just talked about that, you know, website that you went to, you know, with the new athletic facility. Well, the hero in that story was the facility.

And that's what it was all about. And at the end of the day, people don't want to actually people really don't care about your school. They want to know how their school, how your school is going to impact them.

And I know that's rather harsh. And I know that that might be a little bit like, whoa, whoa, what are you talking about, Bart? But at the end of the day, your school is there to serve your students, your donors, your whoever, they are the true heroes. And whether it's, you know, and you might say, oh, I can see real easily, Bart.

Yeah, students are hero. I get that one, but a donor, no, the donor's the hero because you're giving them the ability to fulfill their life purpose of philanthropy. And if you don't do it, somebody else will do it.

And they want to go and be able to give and feel good about their gift. And it's, yes, it's about what you're doing. It's about the outcomes, it's those things.

But at the end of the day, it's about how does it make them feel? And I think that's one of the powers of story. And I'd love for you just for a second, just to kind of maybe tease that out a little bit before we move on to maybe some practical tips. But talk about the idea of how important it is for people to feel about something as opposed to just, you know, digest something.

Because I think too many times I often tell people, it's like, well, what do you think of this marketing campaign Bart? And I'm like, well, it's factual, it looks good, it's clever. But, you know, how does it going to make people feel? They're like, what do you mean? I was like, well, what do you want people to feel when they read this, when they do this, they want, you don't be inspired, you want them to be, you know, driven, do you want, what do you want them to feel? And I think that's a big part of how, why story works and why it's been, you know, from the dawn of creation, why it's been effective and used. So just kind of reflect a little bit on that, because that's a little bit beyond what we had talked about earlier.

But I'm curious to hear

SPEAKER_03
your thoughts. Yeah, one of our taglines is video with soul. And that goes beyond all the facts, who cares about the fact? Yeah, that's, that's important.

At some point, somebody wants to know what's the ROI and, you know, give me all the specs. But if you can't make them feel something, if you can't connect to their heart and to their emotions, then that's only going to get you so far. But if you can really hit those heartstrings, it just creates a connection like no other.

You know, when I think about donating money to something, you know, if you just said, hey, I'm trying to raise money for this thing. It's like, okay, cool. I was in Uganda a couple of weeks ago.

This, and I'm like, okay, I know it's going to be a powerful trip. I got to see the work that a couple of my friends are doing down there, powerful work with these amazing, beautiful people. And, and I've heard all about it.

And I've actually, you know, seen some videos, videos that were actually more factual, that said, here's the work that we're doing. I get to Uganda. I meet this family.

I see what's been done. They've been given this new home. And they're, they're so grateful.

And, and, you know, we had this moment where I got to be in this little, their new home in this little room with my friend Lori. And, and, and they were praying this blessing on Lori. And I just happened to be there.

So on me as well, which was, which was cool. And, and we're on our knees. And, and I look up and it's this dad that's praying for us in Arabic.

And I don't understand anything he's saying, but I was like, this is really special. And his eight year old daughter is sitting next to him. And I just like peeked my eyes open and looked at the little girl, I have an eight year old daughter.

And I see this little girl who, who is moved to tears. She is crying. She has a tear rolling down her cheek.

Like, I'm about to have, it was such a powerful moment for me to, to see this little girl that is so full of gratitude that that story, it became real. Like all of the facts, all of the, you know, the invitations that come to Uganda meet the people and all of the promises that it's, you're going to love, it's going to change your life. And, and I saw it in that moment.

Like this is real. This impacted the work that these people are doing impacted this little girl in, in, and she was just beautiful. We, we did like a mini interview with her afterward.

And, and she's just, she could barely even talk because she's so thankful that she has a roof over her head and a dry bed for whenever it rains. And it's just so full of gratitude. Now, talk about like, you know, tugging at your heartstrings.

Me, I'm like, okay, where do I give my money? Because I want to help more little girls like her and more families like them.

SPEAKER_01
Yeah. And you think about it. I mean, I think that the power of emotion is underrated and sometimes overrated.

I don't think we truly understand it because it's really the glue that fits everything together. Good, bad, or otherwise. Cause I mean, you think about trauma.

I mean, that's, that's all emotion and it's all part of how our body responded to, it made us feel this way. But there's also this power of just like you did there where, where we're talking and something hits us in a way and it, it touches our soul and that causes emotion and that, that solidifies that in our mind. It solidifies that in our heart, in our soul.

And, and I think that that is a tool, not that it's a tool, but it's a, a means of communicating that I think that we often fall short as higher ed marketers that, that we really could lean into and really could dive deeper into that. I think that sometimes we either just don't because we don't know about it or we feel that somehow it's, it's, you know, it's, it's being used for the wrong reason, which I know that many times advertising is seen that way. But, but I think that everything that you've been telling me and what I've seen in you, that authenticity comes out really well.

So thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02
Ryan, you've done an excellent job of making the case and actually create, created a, an emotional moment, which I wish people could see us here on camera and see how we were all moved with your story. I would like to make sure we offer some practical tips and advice on how this can be achieved or how you achieve it. So I guess one of the things that I would like to know personally since I interview people on a weekly basis like yourself of some of the strategies that you employ when interviewing subjects that help them feel at ease and to draw out genuine, genuine emotive

SPEAKER_03
responses from them. Yeah, that's good. You know, when we set up for an interview, I'll just tell the guys like, Hey, as soon as you're set, like hit record and like just nudge me so that I know that we're actually rolling.

And, you know, cause people think like, Oh, as soon as you start rolling, like they just tend to clam up or get like, Oh gosh, this is, this is for real. So then, you know, what I'll, what I'll, what I'll do at that point is say like, Hey, before we, before we start and really get into the interview, you know, and I'm just kind of like played off like just like, you know, it's just you and me here. Tell me like, why do you seriously, you're here? Like, why do you really care about this work? Or why do you really care about this thing? And just let them go and just kind of, you know, it's like, if they take a minute or five minutes, and that's typically like one of the best sound bites because they don't feel like they have to give a canned answer.

And then, you know, at that point, you know, when I try to tell people is like, Hey, the point of this is number one, I just want to have fun. I want this to feel as real as it can. So like, if we can just remember that we're hanging out, having a cup of coffee together, and I want to know your story, I'm genuinely interested.

So when you can communicate and kind of start with the end in mind and let people know, you know, this, it doesn't have to be perfect. The beautiful thing about editing is we can clean stuff up. And I don't want you to feel like your answers have to be perfect, because it's in the, the us and the ums or the, the moments where you can't answer, because you're moved with emotion, that that's going to speak louder than probably anything that I'm going to be able to say.

Also, when people are sharing something that might be emotional or might be, you know, a deeper part of their story, I like to just sit and kind of reflect in, in like, let the moment breathe and, and then just say that, Hey, tell me more about that. That sounds like that was really impactful for you. Right. Just give them a little bit to like, dive in deeper. And then at that point, you know, they, they can share more or, you know, if they, some people are afraid to get emotional.

And so they, they might, you know, stop themselves even reflecting and saying like, you know, wow, that, that sounds like that was probably really hard for you. And then just letting it breathe and letting

SPEAKER_01
them, you know, do something with that. That's really cool. And, and I guess even as you kind of capture those things and, and you're kind of letting that flow.

And I love that tip of just kind of, you know, starting and just kind of easing into it. You know, I think that does make us all more comfortable not feeling like we're on stage or performing or Troy and I sometimes joke back and forth that, you know, sometimes these, these interviews are more, we forget sometimes we're just talking to people. And then, and then other times I'm like, Oh wait, we're recording a podcast here that, you know, hundreds of people download every week and gulp, you know, all of a sudden, yet you kind of get a little bit self conscious of the way you're talking and what you're doing.

And, and I think that that comes across. And so I think that that tip of really helping them kind of ease into it and, and, and, and help them understand that and really have some empathy for them and just being a good listener is probably one of the things I've

SPEAKER_03
learned the most about being a podcast. So I was going to add, so when you are interviewing and, you know, over zoom or your video call can be a little bit different than in person, right? But still keeping eye contact as best you can and not making the person feel like you are going over a checklist, right? You're okay, I asked that question onto the next one. Okay, I asked that question onto the next one.

But like, like I said, like letting each question and answer brief on its own and trying to maintain eye contact. And then if you can just have a follow up for whatever answer they give, just a quick follow up, then ask that follow up and then look at your notes to figure out, okay, where do we need to go next? So that it just, it does feel more like a natural conversation. And then the other golden rule that I like to practice, that really helps the listener connect is I'll ask the interview, we, hey, take me to the moment when X happened, or take me to the moment when you decided that you were going to work at this higher ed institution, you know, take me what, where were you? And what were you thinking? If you can help people like, you know, what was the weather or, you know, what were you wearing? Like, if you can help make it real, then for whoever's listening, it's going to be like, okay, I'm there, I'm right there.

And if they're right there, man, the empathy, you know, it's off the charts and they're connecting and they're tracking. And that's really what you want. Yeah, I know that we had

SPEAKER_01
Neil Ford on the podcast, and he is just an expert storytelling, because he will just take you there in his words and his pauses in the way that he talks. And you think about the tradition of oral storytelling across the centuries and the millennial, and the idea that that was always a part of, you know, how stories were told. And now we can do that and combine that with video, combine that with other sensory type of things.

And I think that that helps out a lot. So let's kind of back it up for a second, though, because I mean, one of the things that, you know, I, a lot of people know that I do work with all kinds of sizes schools. And some of them, I work with what's called micro colleges, believe it or not, there's a category called micro colleges.

And these are colleges that have like less than 100 students. And so they, you might even call them Pico colleges, I suppose, but the idea that they're, they're these tiny schools and they sometimes don't have the budgets. I mean, they usually don't have a marketing person.

A lot of times they're picking up their tips when I'm, you know, leading a conference at a session or session at a conference that they're at. And so a lot of times I, you know, try to encourage them. I'm like, look, I know you don't have a budget for much of anything.

You're kind of doing everything on a, on a wing and a prayer, you know, you got your shoestrings and a couple other things. And so, you know, the best thing to know is that you have the equivalent of what was a high end recording studio in your pocket, you know, 10, 15 years ago. So you've got access to a tool that is amazing.

Spend, you know, spend 30 bucks and go on Amazon and get a tripod holder and a little laviar mic and, and then just sit down and collect testimonials, talk to people, just say, why did you come to this school? Why did you choose to do this? And so even for those people, and I remember having one guy that he emailed me after I gave him that. And he was like, you know, we did that and we posted it on Facebook. And, and what you ask us to do using the tools that I spent, you know, 20 bucks on and, and I even put my logo into, into the app and got a little, you know, little, he was so excited.

He was like, our engagement on Facebook went up like 10x just because of the fact that we had a video on it. And, and so I guess when, when you even look at capturing testimonials, so let's say that it's a small school and they're going to pull out their iPhone, they're going to, you know, plug in their laviar mic and they're going to sit somebody down in the big front of a big window to get some natural light. What are the questions that you kind of would encourage them to do? Or what are, what's kind of some three or four tips that you would say, Hey, when you're doing this, these are the things that really are going to get you the best

SPEAKER_03
type of result. I'm going to start with something super nitpicky. If you're using a lavalier mic, make sure that you hide the cord.

So don't let the cord just like hang on the person's shirt. Okay. So low pet peeve. So if you've done that, so have I.

Long time ago, never again though. And I love this question because I think at the heart of every institution, if they're not telling these stories, man, they're missing out. There's so much to learn.

If you work for an institution, there's so much to learn from your students who are the ones experiencing all the things. And if nothing else to know that you're learning, that's super, super important. But to see like, wow, I could actually use this potentially in our marketing.

So you could sit across from somebody, if you don't have the camera or whatever to do that, then hop on a zoom call because everybody has a webcam built into a laptop or whatever. So you could hop on a zoom call and hit record. I think when you're going to capture a testimonial, you want to really focus on the transformation.

You know, if you've ever asked for somebody to review your company or your business, I remember doing this for a long time and getting the nicest things. Oh, Ryan and his team, they're so great. They gave us a great video.

Oh, they were, you know, so fun to work with. Unfortunately, I don't think that those reviews really helped us get more work. I don't think it hurt us, but I don't think that that was really the thing that compelled people to want to hire us.

Like, oh, yeah, you should be, if you own a business, you should be kind of a nice person, you know, and that's how you're going to be able to stick around for a while. So the transformation that your students experience, that's the part that's going to help people see, is this a place where I could see myself in opening your question with, hey, tell me, what was life like before coming here? It was like, what was good, bad, ugly, whatever, like, share. Okay. All right. So they share the story.

Tell me more about that. Wow, that sounds so interesting. All right.

Tell me, okay. Now you graduated, you're in the real world, like, wherever they're at, maybe they're still a student there. Well, what is life like now? You've been here, you've experienced this.

What is life like now? And let them share. Oh my gosh. So you're going to get so much more than, oh, this place is so great.

It's been, you know, it's really helped me get good grades and whatever. It's like, well, why, why has it been great? Oh, my professors would tell me what, like, which professor? Oh, well, you know, Professor Brown, like, and what was so great about her? Well, she, she invited students to her home and we got to go to her house and have dinner. And that was the first time I had been invited into an adult's house since, you know, being in elementary school or something like that.

And the way that they loved these, you know, our, our class and the wisdom that they shared and the way that they, you know, were a family, like, I've never seen anything like that before. And it gave me a perspective and a vision for what I want my family to be like. I'm kind of infusing some of my story into this.

So you, yeah, no, no, no, no, you at the, if the only two questions you asked, I would ask, what was life like before? And what is life like now? And then, you know, a third question, a bonus question would be like, okay, let's just say this, this school was never a part of your life. What would your life look like today? And then to hear people say like, man, I don't know. I mean, I feel like there's, I don't want to go as far as to say, as the school saved me.

But man, the people that I met in the community that I experienced and the life change that I've had since being here, it's made all the difference. And I can't imagine not attending the school and investing my time and money. And it's hard to put a ROI on that.

But I tell you what, this place, it means everything to me. Yeah. And I, this episode's dropping during

SPEAKER_01
the holiday season. So if you want to see a good example of a story that runs that script, tune into it's a wonderful life because Capra did that. And that, that is a lot of, you know, what was it like before? What's it like after? And what was it like if you weren't, if that wasn't there? And so I think that that is a classic story that everybody has, you know, latched onto during the holiday season.

And I think that's a good example of everything that you've been talking about, Ryan. So I really, really appreciate, appreciate that. Those tips.

SPEAKER_02
Yes, Ryan, thank you for those tips. And I want to let everyone know, I believe Ryan has a checklist that he sends out and offers. And we're going to do our best to make sure we include a link to that checklist in the show notes when we produce this episode.

Ryan, we have to bring our conversation to a close. If you would, is there a piece of advice that you could offer that could be quickly implemented soon after hearing around video production that would really move the needle for

SPEAKER_03
a listener? Yeah, I mean, I guess it's sort of around video production. But I would say that as we finished this film for Garth Pleasants, and I was reflecting on my own story and realizing that man, my heart and passion is in higher ed. And the more I've invested in this industry, the more I'm realizing like, Oh my gosh, I believe so much in the power of what higher ed can do for people.

And so I've had this whole epiphany with my own life is I look at the last decade of me running my business, I've been so focused on the business side of what I'm doing that I forgot why I got into this work. And I know that might sound cliche, but I'm remembering why, like how I'm wired and what I really care about in its people's stories and pulling out the soul of their story and highlighting the transformation to inspire other people and really to change the world. So the advice that I would have for anybody, especially people that are working in higher ed is to carve out some time and to try to remember why do you do this work, try to remember the passion and excitement that maybe you had when you first started, and maybe it's gotten monotonous or it's gotten frustrating because of politics or whatever the reason might be or the enrollment cliff or whatever things that might seem scary.

And remember your purpose in this work because if you can remember your purpose and live from there and show up from there, you're going to inspire the people that you're working with, you're going to inspire students and parents to believe that this can really matter and it can really change somebody's life. Thank you. Ryan Corral,

SPEAKER_02
founder of Enroll Films. Ryan, what's the best way someone can reach you after this conversation?

SPEAKER_03
Yes, thank you for asking. I'm at Ryan Corral, it's K-O-R-A-L on all the socials. I'm active on LinkedIn and Instagram and you can email me ryan at enrollfilms.

com and that checklist is at

SPEAKER_02
enrollfilms.com slash checklist. Thank you and I can personally say I was moved by your story by around Garth and you are inspiration to me to become a better interviewer.

So I've learned so much in talking to you both last week and our preparation and today within our interview. Thank you so much for being a guest with us. Bart, do you have a final thought that you would like to

SPEAKER_01
share? Yeah, I think there's just so many really good ways to look at storytelling through video, but just storytelling in general. I mean, I know a lot of you are doing video, you're doing other ways, but at the heart of all of our marketing, it should be about stories. So even as you're doing an enrollment campaign, you need to think about it rather than turning it into just a transactional brochure or an informational presentation.

How can you take it and turn it into a story? How can you leverage storytelling for all the ways that you're communicating across your marketing and communications? And so Ryan did a great job of kind of outlining several tips and I love the fact that he kind of started even this podcast and this wasn't planned, but he started with purpose and he ended with purpose. And I think that that's part of a really good storyteller is that you kind of come along for the ride and then you realize, wow, okay, I get it. I see that.

I see what the moral of the story or what the basis of the story is. And so yeah, it's been great. And flip back and rewind a little bit and listen to some of those practical tips, write those down.

Be sure to grab his checklist because I think that there's even more tips there that as you're just kind of working with your team that you can really take to town and go to go use. And so Ryan, it's an honor. Thank you so much.

Really enjoyed having you on the show today. I appreciate everything you guys are doing

SPEAKER_02
about the good work. Great episode, gentlemen. I would like to thank Rob Conlon and his team at Westport Studios for helping us produce our episodes on a weekly basis.

Thank you, Rob. The Higher Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Kailer Solutions. That is Bart's company, which is an education marketing and branding agency doing great work.

And by the company that I represent, Ring Digital, providing direct mail for digital. And we do that by accurately serving as directly to the handheld and household devices of your inquiries on your direct mail list. On behalf of Bart Kailer and Ryan and myself, Troy, thank you so much for joining us today.

SPEAKER_00
You've been listening to The Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and your favorite podcast player. The Higher Ed Marketer is a production of Kailer Solutions and Ring Digital in partnership with Westport Studios.

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