SPEAKER_01
You're listening to the Higher Ed Marketer, the podcast for marketing professionals in higher education. Join us every week as we talk to the industry's greatest minds in student recruitment, donor relations, marketing trends, new technologies, and much more. If you're looking for conversations centered around where marketing in higher ed is going, this podcast is for you.

Let's get into the show.

SPEAKER_02
Thank you for tuning into the Higher Ed Marketer podcast. My name is Troy Singer, and I'm along with my friend and co-host, Bart Kaler, and today we're honored to have Brad Enwussell. He's the founding partner at Image 7 on the podcast.

Brad is currently marketing to the students and parents of who Higher Ed will be marketing to over the next couple of years, which is Generation Alpha. And we thought that Brad could give us a glimpse into what best practices are for marketing to these types of

SPEAKER_00
individuals. Yeah, I think that it's really interesting. I've known Brad for a long time.

I've had a lot of respect for the work that they do. They have a magazine called The School Marketer, and it's an Australian magazine. I mean, Brad works and lives in Australia.

And so a lot of what you're hearing is how it's working in Australia. But I think what's really interesting is that they're still marketing to that generation, the Alpha's and the Millennial Parents, that that's going to be the case for all of us as higher ed marketers here in the States in the next couple of years. And so I think he brings a lot of really good perspectives.

I've always learned a lot from he and his team. They do outstanding work, both branding and marketing. And so having him on the show seemed like a really good idea.

I don't want you to, he talks a lot about K-12, but I want you to think about him saying that so that you can get ready for what's going to happen in the next five, 10 years in the way that you're marketing to that same audience. And remember, I mean, even though it's, it's Australia, we had Mark McCrindle in one of the early episodes, he's the, he was, he coined the term generation Alpha. He's from Sydney, Australia.

We had him on the podcast to talk about, you know, the traits of generation Alpha and thinking about that as we get ready to start marketing to them. And keep in mind, generation Alpha are sophomores right now. And so that's going to change considerably in the next couple of years there.

They might even already be on some of your lists. And so they have a whole different perspective on education. Their parents have a different perspective than you might be used to.

And so Brad brings a lot of really good insights to that.

SPEAKER_02
Yes, he does. And here's our conversation with Brad and Whistle. Thank you for joining us on the podcast, Brad.

And we begin all of our conversations with our guests by asking them to share something that they may have learned recently, that our listeners would deem either fun or interesting. So here's your chance.

SPEAKER_03
Well, a fun and interesting for me. I'll just grab the book here, new book from Michael McQueen called Mind Stuck. And we always start crafting a brand story.

And we've always looked for what's the common enemy? What's the thing that can unite this, this audience? And, you know, in schools, as in, the K to 12 schools, we're talking about, usually you can look into the founder, the founding story, what was the main purpose of it getting set up. And Michael in his book revealed to me that Pepsi people of which I'm one, Pepsi people identify themselves not only as drinkers of Pepsi, but as non drinkers of Coke. And I thought that, well, it was really interesting.

And what if we could harness that sort of commitment in education marketing?

SPEAKER_02
That was a microprocessor.

SPEAKER_00
I'm a Diet Coke. I'm going to let it go.

SPEAKER_03
But can we continue?

SPEAKER_02
Bart, we ask these questions not to debate, but to have our guests share something that's fun or interesting. So fair enough. Don't turn it into a debate.

And before you do, I'm going to let everyone know that we're speaking with Brad and whistle. He's the founding partner at Image Seven. And you may have picked up by his accent that he is Australian.

So if you would, before we get started with our topic, let everyone know a little bit about the company and what you do and who you market to.

SPEAKER_03
Sure, we're based in Australia. Most of our clients are in Australia and our clients are K to 12 independent schools, typically, not exclusively, but typically, but all inside education. So some associations and a tiny little bit of tertiary work there as well, founded back in sort of the late 80s.

So we've got a few years under our belt. And we love what we do. And we're a team where I founded the firm in Perth, which is on the West Coast.

But I'm speaking to you today from Sydney on the East Coast, where I've been for a decade now.

SPEAKER_02
I've heard those two cities compared to how our cities on the coast, New York on one side and LA on the other side, would that be a good comparison?

SPEAKER_03
Very good. And as I'm from Perth, I would just have to say Perth and LA, that's the affinity.

SPEAKER_02
Very good. Well, since you do market to K through 12 schools, we thought it would be good to bring you on to help us understand what type of messages are being conveyed successfully to Generation Alpha as our higher ed community has to start thinking about that. So if you would maybe starting out with some of the strategies, marketing strategies that you currently are using and how you've seen it evolve with Generation Z as we're starting to get to the end of marketing to them.

SPEAKER_03
Yeah, you'll have to forgive me because it's Gen Z over here. And if I use any any terms which are particularly Australian just pull me up.

SPEAKER_00
Kyle Campbell used the same term from the UK.

SPEAKER_03
Absolutely. I mean, it's only you guys. What can I say? But digital dominance is the big thing for us always.

So you've got Gen Z, the first real generation to grow up entirely in that digital domain and just digital first. And while our listeners might be going, you know, but of course, there is still a lot of education decision makers who are boomers and who are making decisions that our customer base is like me. And they're not.

And it sounds really basic, but that's a big one to overcome. A couple of the other things that come to mind, some of the real defining things for us is that these parents are valuing experiences more than things. So the experience of attending a school, what is that going to be like? Whereas it wasn't that long ago that we could pretty much rely on substantiating the value of a of a K to 12 school through the output.

What was what were the grades going to be like? What was the entrance to university going to be like? But don't get me wrong, that's still very big. But the experience, what is this going to be like for my child is really,

SPEAKER_00
really valuable now. I think it's interesting of what you're bringing up, Brad, because I think that, you know, a lot of people are kind of like, okay, you know, why are we talking into somebody in K12? It's a different market. It's all this because you're not necessarily marketing to the student as if, you know, as a lot of times traditional higher ed is as far as they are marketing to the to the student.

But I think that really what I the reason why I wanted to have you come on the show was to talk about, okay, first of all, yes, generation alpha is different. And these are the things that they're different on. And this is what they're valuing.

And a lot of times what they value is what their parents end up valuing as well. So the experiences are going to be a big part of it. We see a little bit of that now with generation Z, where, you know, a lot of times when, you know, people are talking about the swag, I don't understand why the swag isn't working or why this isn't working.

Well, it goes to that experience thing that I think that that they are doing. And the other thing that I think is really important, and maybe we can kind of unpack this a little bit too, is the fact that you've got this idea, and we'll get into a little bit more later too, but the idea of the parents, because a lot of people tend to forget that the parents of generation alpha are millennials. And that's different too, because right now, most of the Gen Z parents, including myself or Xers, or boomers, or it's kind of that a little bit of sort of transitioning down into a whole different generation of not only students, but parents.

And I think that's going to, I think that's going to play out and we'll get into that a little bit more. But tell me a little bit about some of the trends that you're seeing there. And the way that you're doing your marketing that maybe we can kind of borrow from or see what's coming.

So you talked a lot about digital first and experiences. How is that playing out in the way you're presenting the brands and the way you're doing the marketing?

SPEAKER_03
It's difficult in the sense of K-12 schools, typically, and I know there are many smaller institutions in listen to the podcast, but smaller. Often we're dealing with schools where the school marketer is actually the school head assisted by their front of office manager who does also does the school tours with prospective parents. So that is small, and it's not the primary job.

If you could imagine that at the small end through to teams of five and six in what we call a really big complex school. So that's the context. The, but the strategies that we, we keep trying to apply is to stay ahead of technology.

And by that, we're not saying being on the bleeding edge of technology just because something is new. There is a new social channel. I mean, how many times have we all seen that? That's a, let's all jump on.

And four weeks later, we all decide, well, it wasn't that hot anyway, but to stay ahead of technology and to be, if you like, aligned with the thinking, because that's where the parents are. That that's where they are natively, even, even if we're not, the other things are short form content of any description. It is, it's short form.

I can't remember the last time that in a prospective sense, we, we've got a parent to, to read 1500 words. That's just, that's really long form now. So now that's not to say, of course, that things like a school that maybe produces a book that reinforces their educational philosophy or something like that isn't valuable.

It is because the closer, of course, they get to the bottom of the funnel, the more inclined they are to dig deeper into the, the who you are and why you do it. And personalization technology, of course, is enabling personalization. They can get it when they go to the local shopping mall and they buy a new shirt or something.

And that experience will be personalized for them. So why isn't that happening at school? Where theoretically, I'm part of the community and you know me even so much better. And so the, the demands for personalization, I think vastly under tapped in code at all.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that would be the same for,

SPEAKER_00
for a higher ed as well. Cause I think that a lot of people are talking about, you know, what, I did a presentation this week for a group of professional development. And it was like, you know, looking at CRMs that can help you do more personal personalization.

And then how, how can you leverage that into your content so that it, it does feel more than just the name, more about, you know, how can I personalize the content that I'm delivering because I know a specific element of that person. And so I think you bring up a really good point. You talked a little bit, I want to just kind of touch base before we move on to the next section.

You talked about the long form versus short form content. Talk about the types of content that's, that you see being consumed the most from millennial parents. Is it more video? Is it more, you know, podcast?

SPEAKER_03
What are you seeing in your schools? I think video is certainly, you know, the, to use the old billboard charts, you know, with the, the, the rocket with a star. Is that what they used to say? But it's, I think so, something like that. It's right up there and, and continuing to be the K-12s often have a problem with video content.

Again, it's a resourcing type issue. You don't have as many people. So you don't have as many people around who are naturally inclined or in the production of content.

But the stories are thick on the ground. We often talk about it to pulling a line from, you know, Top Gun, but they are story rich environments. And, you know, tertiary is as well, of course, but the, the video is still underutilized and has got so much further to go.

Top, as much as in a K-12 environment, we've got to be a lot more controlled about your message. It's, student-generated content is somewhat dangerous, but there is a lot, a lot further we can, we can go there. And as those platforms become a bit more mature, we'll, we'll get a lot better at it, I believe, but it's got a long way to go.

SPEAKER_00
That's great. So when we talk about, you know, I'm going to go back for a second, because you mentioned something about the idea of, you know, a lot of these parents want experiences for their students and the students are kind of, you know, reacting to that as well. Help me understand a little bit.

Are there any other needs or behaviors that, that you're seeing that maybe we need to understand going forward? I mean, decision-making. I know, you know, 10 years ago when millennial, or 20 years ago now, when millennials were coming on the scene in higher education, a lot of it was, hey, there's these boomer moms that were all about the helicopter parents. And the, and you know, I even remember people talking about the Blackhawk parents.

It's like these ultra controlling moms that would, you know, would fill out the essays that would do all the work, that would do everything. And, and I mean, that's backed off a little bit, although it seems to be coming back a little bit. What's been your experience as you engage with these different

SPEAKER_03
parents and how that's evolved over the years? I think even perhaps to go a little bit more macro than that, if once upon a time we could fairly comfortably draw the graph and say, except for perhaps years 11 and 12 entry to a new school or years 11 and 12, the primary decision maker was the parent without a shadow of a doubt. But there's been some interesting longitudinal work done by independent schools, Queensland, one of the, one of the states here, which just every four years they've measured it. One of the things they've measured is the influence of the child on selection of school.

And it is scary. It is for me, I mean, I find it really scary that the a seven year old is being asked, we've visited three schools now, which one do you want to go to? Why? Sorry. Now, just because I'm struggling with the concept doesn't mean that it's not happening.

And I've got to take into that into account. So yeah, but it seems almost wrong that we have to consider on a school tour, what is the experience of the seven year old as they're taking along with these adults who are doing the tour? What is the experience of this little child? Because it's quite likely that they'll have a big influence at the end of the day. Just a really quick number from the latest set of data, when you took all responses, so this is a cross age groups entering a school for totally or highly influenced by the child's

SPEAKER_00
opinion was 53%. Wow. Yeah. That's pretty incredible. And I think I want our listeners to kind of hear that out because I mean, I don't want you as a listener to dismiss that to say, well, that's the way it is in our situation too, as the students have the final say.

You have to understand that up until this point, the students did not have that say and college was the first time that they actually had a choice. And so the way that they engaged with the college, the way that they collected the information, the way they consumed, how they were going to research that was a certain way. But now if you think about somebody who's getting ready to come into your generation alpha student who's now a senior in high school and they're looking at your school, the fact that they've been making their life choices since seven, they come with a different perspective and a different expectation on the way your admissions counselors are going to engage with them, the way they're going to be, the expectations they're going to have on the way that you serve them.

So it creates a whole different cultural dynamic that and I'm sure that's what you're

SPEAKER_03
starting to see too as well. Yeah, absolutely. And if you go to the other end of the continuum, we see increased influence from grandparents who are contributing financially.

It's a different sort of a voice, but it is certainly a voice into the decision. So it's if you like what used to be a parent only decision, and if they were the middle of the bell curve, we just see that bell curve

SPEAKER_00
being made flatter and wider. Okay, that's interesting. And I think that will apply to a lot of our schools, you know, in the next few years as this group of students and parents are coming through.

So talking about those parents, I mean, so, you know, knowing that the students are having more of a say at a younger age, knowing that these parents need and kind of require short form content, what are their insights for marketing to the parents of the generation alpha?

SPEAKER_03
Have you seen or that you could provide us? Yeah, I think one of the ones that comes to mind straight away is just information overload. There is the challenge of capturing attention and trust, which obviously you have to have, you know, it's it's it's the beginning, it's the top of the funnel, but there is so much noise, and it is so easy just to be adding to the noise. And you just become part of the cacophony.

And it's we're not adding we think we're adding by shoving more noise into the marketplace. And we're not cutting through so that that that's a challenge. Expectations of parents of any age, but primarily the younger generations.

In a way, it's we're doomed to failure if we commit to ever increasing expectations. And expectations of just what is the experience going to be like? When I went to school, I went on a one week camp, I would expect now that my students go to a two week camp or a month long camp, you just can't keep driving that climbing that set of stairs, because it will become in particularly when you contrast it to the other side, which are what are the fees. That is another big problem for independent schools.

And from what I understand, similar sort of equation happening in the US, where if you just draw the line, it will become unaffordable for for most within a decade or two. So they're managing those expectations or trading parents what to have good expectations about. And I think that's more the key, entering into real genuine deep conversations with parents.

And on perhaps a little bit of a negative side, one of the things we see is that schools and particularly in the junior years becoming the they are the community. Once upon a time, you could bargain on church community groups in Australia. It's always been a bit more biased towards the sporting clubs.

As the community, but those those communities are breaking down relationships are a lot more transient and school is becoming the constant. In some ways, many schools who are looking forward and looking deeply into this, they feel as though they've got to engage in parent education about

SPEAKER_00
parenting skills. That's really interesting. And I think that that I've heard that here in the US as well.

And I think that that's going to be one of the challenges as they get to the point. And especially I think what you talked about is starting to look at that affordability and understanding the fees, understanding everything else and then weighing into that. I know that the very beginning you talked a little bit about the branding.

And I'm just going to ask you a question because if more parents of Generation Alpha are looking at things and they want it shorter, they're looking for these things, talk about one week versus two week. If we're presenting our content from a transactional or feature basis, as opposed to a benefit basis, it seems like we're not going to be as successful. Is that what you're finding? Absolutely.

Absolutely. It's

SPEAKER_03
we've got a simple, in fact, I don't even know where I picked it up, but it's certainly not original with me. A simple little framework that we work in is a resonate, differentiate, substantiate. And it's just a really big lens that you can look at any messaging set and going, actually, is it going to resonate with our audience first? In other words, will they pay attention? And if they do pay attention, is it going to say, Oh, yeah, there's something in that for me.

Differentiate. We've got to stand out. We've got to be different.

It's the same equation for you guys in tertiary. Substantiation is often where K to 12 falls away. It's a little bit easier, I think, for you guys in the high red market, because substantiation immediately falls out in things like graduation rates and such like really easily measured metrics.

But I believe for both of us for K to 12 and higher ed, moving that substantiation piece much closer to telling deep stories that are authentic, that do also resonate. But the substantiation is in the story,

SPEAKER_00
not in the statistic. Yeah, I think that's such a really good point, because I think a lot of times that gets missed, because again, you go back to the very first thing that you said is that this doesn't resonate with me. Maybe I'm an exter or a boomer that's making decisions and saying, well, of course, we need the facts.

Why would we not need the facts? But we have to remember that it's not necessarily the same way for the end user, the millennial parent or the generation alpha.

SPEAKER_02
That's great. Brad, if you can explain to us how, in your opinion, the rise of technology and social media has reshaped the way millennial parents engage with educational institutions?

SPEAKER_03
Well, in so many ways, the instant, the just the cadence of everything has sped up. Something happens at school. And if the parent hasn't seen it on Instagram, by the time they join the pick up queue, what we lovingly refer to as the carpark mafia, but you know, those parents who are just standing around waiting, that's where the gossip happens.

And if something happens, a good thing, somebody came to speak at the school assembly or an award was given out. If that's not actually been on Instagram before the parents arrive, then that's all, why did that happen? Oh, look, we never know what's going on here. And that's, that's, yeah, it's real.

And on one hand, you can combat it and you can say, that's great. Let's increase our cadence of feeding the content beast. But again, that's not sustainable.

We are more and more getting to that place where we're not, we can't respond anymore. Now, don't get me wrong, there are many schools who can actually lift their game. But when you're at the top of the game, without increasing fees, inordinately and unrealistically, you can't resource that sort of responsiveness.

So again, it's about teaching parents. The other thing I think is about information gathering and parent decision making. It's totally changed the equation.

We jokingly sometimes just refer to BG and AG before Google and after Google, you know, that that moment in time where time was split. And actually the decision making mode of parents totally flipped so that they, by the time they identify themselves to the school as a prospective parent, they knew more about the school, what it stood for and what its track record was, than perhaps the school actually knew about them as a prospective parent. So that flip has then been put on steroids with social media.

Because again, we're coming back to that cadence of everything. Everything moves faster. But parents can seek opinions from their peers so much quicker and so much easier.

And you know, that's a double-edged sword because we're often managing opinions that we don't even know exist and people who haven't had an experience at all prepared to offer an opinion.

SPEAKER_00
Yeah. Yeah. It ends up putting the marketing team on a reactionary basis instead of being proactive. And I think that's always a very difficult place to be.

It's interesting to me, you know, because you mentioned a couple things there that just the idea of the expectations. It goes back to what you said earlier about the expectations of millennial parents and the fact that, hey, I'm showing up at the car park and I'm, you know, picking up my child. I have expected that I'm going to be able to review everything on Instagram that happened throughout the day by the time I get there.

And if I don't, somehow you haven't served me. And so I think that's an interesting perspective that we have to understand. And then your whole idea about, you know, the expectations of, you know, the research that people can do before they even end up in the viewfinder of a school.

Here in the States, we call that stealth applications a lot of times for apps for schools. And that frustrates, you know, enrollment leaders and admissions counselors because it's like, that's not the way it's supposed to work. And we can talk about that and get frustrated with it.

And we can wail about it, but at the end of the day, that's the way it's working now. It's that AG, the after Google effect. And we have to figure out ways that we can be okay with that, be comfortable with that, and then figure out better ways to, you know, a lot of people don't like the word sell, but better ways to sell into that.

How can we better present ourselves and differentiate and substantiate and to resonate with those people? I got in the wrong order, but I think everybody knows what I'm talking about. But the fact that we can do that and lean into that as opposed to just complain about it, I think is a really good point. So how do you, I mean, as you kind of start looking at all these different things, I mean, you kind of give us a little bit of tips, but just like any last tips that we need to think about as far as adjusting those marketing strategies, especially the social media, especially the way that we present this content, how do you kind of adjust those strategies with this with millennial values, especially we talked a little bit about their expectations, but there's some values that underscore

SPEAKER_03
all of that as well. Yeah, there's one of the things I think, particularly for K to 12, because of those resource limitations, while the what the expectations of the the parents might be be on every social channel, you should be on Twitter, X Facebook, Insta, TikTok, and the list goes on, you don't have the resources. So just to be really clear, choose where you're going to be and do it.

Well, that it's really simple. It's, I wouldn't even call that a digital strategy. It's just a just plain old good.

Choose the two. And for all of our studies, we've in the past studies, which were actually global studies of the use of social media in K to 12s in Australia, US, UK, and Facebook and Insta are still far and away. You know, there's a big drop off after that.

So if you've got limited resources, choose that's where you're going to be. And the answer is when you get a grumbly parent that just says, oh, you're not on TikTok, I use TikTok. And you say, well, that's great, but you'll appreciate we want to put our resources into the classroom, into the students.

And we just can't devote that resource. It's it went, but what we find this is, I'm going a little bit off the technology here, but we often find when consulting with K to 12 schools that that's an area that I've just given you causes them great angst, because it's happening all the time. And we say, almost like pull out the notepad, let's scribble a little note.

And so I just wrote a policy and the policy says, we're going to use Facebook and Insta. And now you have a policy, and you can refer to that policy. And a policy is just a decision made in advance.

And then they can they've got the line that just says, sorry, it's not our policy, because we've got limited resources, and we're going to use them well. And the white lifts off their shoulders. But you say what I mean, it's not really a technological solution.

No, it's not. But I think it's no that I think a lot

SPEAKER_00
of times we as higher ed marketers, we get stuck in this conundrum of, well, what are we supposed to do? And we fret and we worry. Sometimes it's easy as making a decision. And I love that.

I love

SPEAKER_03
that. The policy is just a decision made in advance. I like to change the subject into

SPEAKER_02
fostering courageous leadership, especially with all the changes that our higher ed leaders are facing. And I would also like to say some of these leaders or most of these late leaders are boomers and Gen Xers. So Brad would like to know, you know, how can, in your opinion, education leaders turn the challenge of the upcoming enrollment cliff? Also, all the changes that are coming in the AI sphere into an opportunity for innovation and growth for

SPEAKER_03
their institutions? Yeah, with the enrollment cliff, that's not something we're experiencing in K to 12 in Australia, anywhere near the level of what I understand it's happening in higher ed in the US. But there is a quote that years ago, when I first heard it, it was, I've written it down here so I can get it right. General Eric Shinseki, there you go.

He was your chief of staff of the army at one stage. But he said, if you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less. And now, to me, that applies as much to us and our work in K to 12 schools in Australia as it does to higher ed in the US.

So for me, that's a primary motivating factor if you like, how do we do what we do just because there's going to be less prospective students in the pipeline available in the universe for you to enroll at your institution doesn't mean that you have to have fewer students. It might mean that you have to increase market share. But it doesn't mean that you have to have less students.

Indeed, it could be that it's a good thing to have less students, but not to get panicked about the enrollment cliff. But the simple fact does end up as if you don't adjust, try new approaches, test things. So I forgot who it was.

One of your guests recently mentioned they went and renamed a course and that had great benefit. That's a perfect example to me of actually just being prepared to change, prepared to pivot, not do things the way we've always done, being nimble in the offering. And if we're nimble in the offering and embrace change, then we've got a good chance of actually serving our institutions well by preparing them for the for the enrollment cliff.

So face what's happening. We know it's happening. We're talking about, you know, we've all been reading about it for years now.

It's real. It's happening. So no excuse for continuing to do the same things the way they've always done them and expecting a different result.

SPEAKER_00
I'll get off my soapbox now. No, I appreciate that because I'm usually the one on the soapbox on this type of thing as well. And I think that you bring up some really good points there.

I mean, I think it was Shane Baglini, if anybody wants to go back and listen to that episode who talked about renaming the courses. But I think it's that idea of looking at what you can do. I mean, I think so many times we're as humans, we're used to just kind of throwing up our hands and saying, Oh, well, whiz me, I can't do anything about this.

And we end up digging ourselves bigger hole than filling it. And I think it goes back to the basics of marketing. It goes back to the, you know, the four Ps and we talk about that a lot in our marketing, but it comes down to those basics and making decisions, going back to what you said about the policies on posted, making decisions, being willing to make the decisions and being willing to deal with what the decision has.

And I think that's what I'm most fearful in the next few years is that the amount of change that's happening is going to slow people down from making decisions. And it's going to, it's going to take away a lot of their confidence. And I think that's where, if we can kind of gird ourselves up for that, I think we're going to be in a better place.

I heard somebody recently talk about, you know, if, if you're aren't willing, and it goes back to your, your quote of the Army General, the Joint Chiefs of Staff or whatever, if you're not willing to make these decisions, you're either going to merge or purge, that's going to happen. You're either going to, you know, unfortunately your school is going to close or it's going to be merged into somebody else. And it's at that level of alarm that I think that we've got to be willing to make these decisions.

And that enrollment cliff is just one of those things. But even as you look at the, the impact on, on higher ed and all education with AI, I mean, what are you seeing and kind of what's happening there in Australia with the use of AI here in the States, a lot of people are either leaning well into it or they're getting panicked. And again, it's, it's another change element that's happening.

So, you know, what are you, what are you sensing there? For once,

SPEAKER_03
we can probably say that Australia is experiencing AI at the same rate as everybody else, because we've got a rule of thumb. And this is one of the reasons I enjoy our relationship, but is because I can look to you, I can see what the higher ed market is doing in the, the US. And I know in my usual rule of thumb is about five to seven years.

A lot of those same principles are going to flow through to the more well resourced independent schools in the K to 12 space. Now, over time, that, that gap has been getting shorter and shorter and shorter. And I'm happy to say that with AI, we're all experiencing it together.

So the, having said that, my sense is that school marketers, as in K to 12 school marketers are going to be slower on the uptake than what higher ed will be. Again, mostly just because of resources. It's when you're in a small team and you're doing the day to day, you've got to keep the day to day happening.

We often for, and this is one of the places where I think higher ed does change from K to 12 in school marketing officer, the generic term we give to a school marketer. Typically it's an 80, 20 type role split. Only 20% is actually marketing for enrollment inquiries.

80% is actually doing the comms, the internal comms that are required to keep the school running and in good order. And if you count it, that I've classed that as very important because if you don't do that, then your attention falls off of so that's a really important piece. So yeah, there is great territory there for school marketers to explore with AI about just doing the day to days.

But I don't see that being embraced just yet. I think everybody tends to be certainly from a school leadership position, just waiting a bit. And they're a little bit more concerned about how we're integrating the idea of AI into the

SPEAKER_00
education, the school curriculum. Yeah. And I think that's pretty common across the board. I'm really trying to, I mean, a lot of people would call me an AI evangelist and maybe I would go further than that, the expert.

But I think that one of the things, and I've often told people I'm like saving 10 to 15 hours a week. And a friend of mine, Dan Sanchez recently corrected me and he said, actually, I wouldn't say you're saving 10 to 15 hours a week, you're actually adding 10 to 15 hours a week. And I was like, Oh, that's interesting.

It's the fact that in 40 hours, I can do 55 or 60 hours worth of work. And so I've been really trying to lean into a lot of my smaller clients, kind of like what you've talked about, the one and a half marketing people that's in the school, and letting them know to say, Hey, if we can kind of lean into AI, if we can, if I can teach you some basics on how it can actually, you know, amplify the work that you're already doing, that's going to give you a leg up for being able to, you know, get more market shared to be able to compete a little differently as if you had five or six people in your marketing team. And so it is a lot of change at once.

But I do think that those people that are able to embrace it and to learn it and understand it are going to be in a better place as these headwinds are coming on. And I guess as we, as we kind of close things up, I'm just curious about as these headwinds and all the challenges are coming, and whether it's the enrollment cliff, AI, the perceived price of fees and tuition, I mean, the perception of what education value really is because of the fractured, you know, elements of our social media world. What do you think is going to be that, you know, that, that resilience that school leaders need to have or marketers need to have that's going to help them, you know, weather that educational storm? What's that deep

SPEAKER_03
rudder that you kind of are seeing? Yeah, I think, well, I speak to it from a personal perspective, and from many of our clients come from faith-based schools. Just the structure of independent education in Australia is the majority of independent schools had a basis in one of the denominations. And for me, it's that deep rudder having clear direction, but the ability to adapt with that and the resilience that I think you're talking about there.

For me, that they have this common element in my faith, it becomes that's the, that's the anchor or the deep rudder, the solid foundation and without trying to get too, you know, cutesy about it. But that's the point where you can always point back to, I mean, people talk about the true North, but that's the point where you can go back to. So, you know, it serves as an ethical and a moral compass for me.

And particularly in an Australian context, doesn't mean it's not about forcing beliefs on others. It's, but hopefully my team at Image 7, our clients, suppliers, and all the people we interact with, they get to see a slice of that. They can see, yes, there's the callback for Brad, which has then been embedded in Image 7, and that's the way we do things.

Again, not all the team at Image 7 share my faith, but we work in the same way. So there's all those callbacks there. So I'd be suggesting the school leaders, particularly in the marketing space, again, Simon Sinek, find out what's your why, actually identify it and then know what it means, work out what the parameters of that are, what does it mean that you will do, but most importantly, what does it mean that you won't do?

SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I really appreciate that. And I appreciate the vulnerability. You and I share the same why, and I think a lot of the listeners to the podcast know that about me and I'm pretty open about that.

But I think that you're right. I think that as marketers, as school leaders, we've got to identify what that why is for our school and be able to articulate it well for that resonance, for the differentiation, and for the, you know, for the substantiation of everything we're doing. So really, really appreciate you sharing that, Brad.

And it means a lot to me. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02
Brad, is there a final thought or idea that you can offer that once heard by a listener could be

SPEAKER_03
quickly implemented at their institution? I think where we are at the end of calendar year 2023, which for us in another hemisphere is actually the end of the school year as well, is get on top of AI. It's that there is going to be no other trend in the immediate future that tops what AI's impact will be. And if you haven't dipped your toe in, haven't understood how it works, then it's really easy just download and start playing.

In fact, you don't even have to download just browse to open up a free account. And I don't know about I'm sort of, you know, preaching preaching your gospel here, but it's big and it's big. And it's going to happen in this compressed time frame.

And a podcast that I was listening to a while back just said, just remember, this is the dumbest AI is ever going to be. And I thought that is profound. And if we're not across it, then we've got no hope of making good decisions about it.

So we need to learn about it. Even if you don't like using it in your in your day to day, I think you will. I think you'll find all sorts of wonderful ways just to use it for personal productivity, but to actually just do some learn just by experimenting and listen to some of Bart's good words on how to start interacting with

SPEAKER_02
it. I agree with that last statement. He's leading a lot of us into this path of embracing AI.

I know I'm a better marketer because of it. So thank you, Bart. If I can just offer one other thought is that

SPEAKER_03
for all of our talk, the labels Gen Z Gen Y millennials is really, really useful. Use it as a tool. Don't actually get bound up by it.

Because all of this is happening in waves and the waves are overlapping. Just because there is a few bullet points that says short form is better for this audience. That's true, but you've still got a mix of others in there as well.

So treat it as a

SPEAKER_02
guide. Thank you, Brad. And I definitely agree.

We've been listening and speaking with Brad Entwistle of Image 7. He's been marketing on behalf of educators to students and their parents for a number of years. If you would, Brad, please share your contact information for those who would like

SPEAKER_03
to contact you after listening to this episode. Sure. The easiest way is the website, which is Image7.com.au. Got to remember the .au. It makes all the difference in finding us.

SPEAKER_02
Thank you, Brad. Bart, what are your final thoughts?

SPEAKER_00
Well, first of all, I just want to tell Brad, thank you so much for being on the podcast. This has been long and coming. Brad and I met on LinkedIn maybe 10 years ago.

And I think a lot of people who know me know that I'm all about relationships. Brad and I have never met face to face. We've had phone calls usually at the early part of the U.

S. hours or the late part of the U.S. hours to try to coordinate right now as we're talking to Brad. It's 6 p.

m. Eastern time and he's just getting his day started in Australia a day later than we are. So it's always been fun to kind of get to know Brad.

And I've always had a great deal of respect for what he's doing in marketing space. And I've had a chance to be on the podcast at Image7. And so they've got some great resources.

So I would really encourage you to go take a listen to their podcast. They've always inspired me in the way they've done their podcast. And so it's been just a real treat for me to have Brad on the podcast today.

And so grateful for your friendship and looking forward to staying in touch.

SPEAKER_02
Look, Wes, thank you. Thanks, Troy. The Higher Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Kailer Solutions, an education marketing and branding agency.

And by Ring Digital, providing direct mail for digital by accurately serving ads directly to the handheld and household devices of your inquiries on your direct mail list within your enrollment funnel. Grateful to our wonderful producer, Rob Conlon and his team at Westport Studios. My name is Troy Singer.

On behalf of my co-host, Bart Kailer, we thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_01
You've been listening to The Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show and your favorite podcast player. The Higher Ed Marketer is a production of Kailer Solutions and Ring Digital in partnership with Westport Studios.

Views and opinions expressed by guests on The Higher Ed Marketer are their own and may not reflect the views and opinions of their organization. Know someone who's a mover and a shaker in Higher Ed marketing? Visit www.HigherEdMarketerPodcast.

com and click on our Contact Us page. We'd love to have you tell us about them. Until next time.