SPEAKER_00
You're listening to The Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, donor relations, marketing trends, new technologies, and so much more. If you're looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this podcast is for you.
Let's get into the show.
SPEAKER_03
Welcome to the Higher Ed Marketer podcast. My name is Troy Singer, and I'm here with my co-host, Bart Kaler. And each week, we do our best to interview higher ed marketers that you would admire and also benefit hearing from for the betterment of the entire higher ed community.
Today it's a treat to bring to you Dr. Walter Kimbrough, who is the president of Dillard University in New Orleans. And some of you may know him as the hip hop pres, but most importantly, he is known as being one of the most effective higher ed presidents in utilizing social media.
Bart?
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I did a search a few weeks ago when we're researching and finding guests to be on the podcast. And I knew that social media was something that I wanted to talk about and have a guest who could really talk through social media well. And so I just did a quick Google search on schools and presidents that are using social media the best.
And Dr. Kimbrough kept coming to the top of the Google search. And I recalled meeting him several years ago at an I-Case conference here in Indiana at Ball State University.
I think I did a workshop and he was one of the keynote speakers. And he had talked at that time about utilizing social media in the presidency and higher ed marketing. And I was really impressed with that presentation.
And so when I reached out to him to see if he might be interested in coming, he responded like in 15 minutes. And it was pretty incredible that he came and participated with us today. And so it's a real treat to talk with him.
He's very passionate about what he's doing in social media and how he uses it. And keep in mind as he's talking about this and all the amazing things that he's been doing at Dillard with his team, Dillard's a small school. It's a school of 1200 undergrad students.
And so it's not a powerhouse. It's not a state school. But the way that they are leveraging social media to get their name out and to get everything going, they've done a pretty amazing job.
SPEAKER_03
Let me also add he's not only a wonderful advocate for his institution and his own brand, but also for HBCUs. So I was super excited when Bart had the idea for us to interview him. And I am so honored that he accepted our invitation.
So without further ado, here is Dr. Walter Kimbrough. It is my pleasure and honor to welcome Dr.
Walter Kimbrough. He is the president of Dillard University in New Orleans, Louisiana to the higher ed marketer podcast. Hello, Dr.
Kimbrough.
SPEAKER_02
Hey, how are you doing today?
SPEAKER_03
I'm feeling good. I'm feeling blessed. And again, I am so excited for our conversation today.
A lot of people know, but for those who don't, he is a big presence on social media. He's a huge advocate for historically black colleges and universities. He is probably best known as being the hip hop press.
How did you come to be known as the hip hop press?
SPEAKER_02
So when I was selected as president of Philander Smith College in Little Rock, I was 37. And normally when they do those introductions, you give some short speech about who you are. So here I am, this 37 year old that looks like he's 12.
And I'm saying, you know, I am not from baby boomer generation or the greatest generation. I'm from generation X. And you know, people had, you know, misconceptions about generation X and I'm also from the hip hop generation.
So it was just saying, this is how I have to operate because this is who I am. And so there's a local paper called the Arkansas Times, which is a weekly paper in the very next week. The title of the article was Philander welcomes hip hop president.
And the media marketing team at Philander Smith College thought it was hard, but they were like, oh my God, hip hop is awful. It was an older school, you know, view of music and they're just like, this is terrible. And I said, no, they might be on to something.
And I'd lean into it because it then, you know, gave me this sort of unique brand to step out, particularly when you're at a little bitty school in a state that nobody can find on the map. So it made a lot of sense to say, lean into this. This is something that is different.
And you can put a spin on it doesn't have, because for me, you know, as a college student, hip hop for me were people like public enemy, and it was very conscious and thoughtful. So to me, that's not necessarily a negative thing is you can't wrap it all up into gangster rap and all those other things as well. So it made sense to me and it was a good decision.
SPEAKER_03
Well, that's a great transition because not only do you lean into or did you lean into that title, but you really lean into marketing and utilizing social media effectively to give your message and to communicate to the different constituencies and audiences that you communicate with would love to know how you developed your approach to that and how you deliberately approach the communication that you do through social media.
SPEAKER_02
Right. So part of it was when I became president of Flamersmith in 2004, that's the year Facebook launched. And so your is my presidency evolved as you started adding social media platforms, you know, along the way.
So Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, all those starts to develop around that time. But once again, I'm at this school that most people don't know anything about in Arkansas state that people don't know a lot about either, except for the Clintons. That's it.
And I would work out at a gym in North Little Rock, which is really right across the river. And every time I would go in there, there were these ads from the University of Central Arkansas and they would talk about, you know, UCA, the Center of Learning in Arkansas. And it didn't matter whenever I went to that gym, I saw one of those ads and I read in the paper that they were spending a million dollars a year in advertising.
Like, we're never going to get our message out like that is you can't compete with that. We don't have that kind of budget. I mean, that would have been, you know, one 12th of my entire budget for a year to do those ads.
So for me, it was becomes logical. Social media was a free way to start getting out our message and amplify other things that we could do. I just started by doing my own blog just to say, think of myself as a reporter.
Here are the things that are happening on our campus. And then I, you know, would build that out and then use Facebook some and then finally got to Twitter and those kind of things. And so it made a lot of sense.
And then over the course of my career, you know, I'm still today, I can get a direct message from a reporter saying, Hey, I'm doing a story on X, Y and Z and I can respond that way and then the story is done. It was a good thing to do. But some of that was out of necessity.
You know, you're in this major market, the university of Arkansas takes a lot of the air, university of central Arkansas. So how do you get any kind of notoriety in a space like that? I use what was free and I leveraged it.
SPEAKER_01
That's great. And I think that if I recall in our initial conversations, some of the social media that you did, I mean, certainly kind of jumped in on the blog and some of the other things. And I did some research before we even invited you on the show, just kind of like, who's doing social media the best and college presidents and you consistently come up in some of those searches.
But I think even at the beginning, though, there was some, maybe some reluctancy on some of the platforms. Maybe tell us a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah. Well, I mean, so I started off with a blog. I felt like that was the best way that I could really add some kind of narrative to what was happening.
And then I moved to Facebook really as a way to say we had a great photographer on campus. So there is a way for me to amplify events. If I just had a photo album to say we did this on campus, we did this.
That was really good. And basically, if it was something that was popular, like for the lecture series, which I call Bless the Mic, I had, you know, hip hop icon comment there. And so you have comment on campus.
A lot of students work the event. They tag their friends. Their friends are saying, ooh, comment was on your.
So you get a lot of buzz because people are excited that just happened. You know, comment is in Little Rock, Arkansas. So those kinds of things, I think, were very helpful.
So I thought because I had the blog and I had Facebook, I was good. One of our team members who handled all of our marketing PR, she just kept saying, like, you got to do Twitter. You got to do Twitter.
I was like, oh, it's a microblogger. I already have a blog. I don't need that.
You know, and so we fought the whole way. And so she had somebody come in and really talk about it. So I said, OK, all right, I'll get in a Twitter.
And that was 2009 when I got in the Twitter. Now that becomes one of my main platforms. But that was when I did not want to do it.
I was just like, oh, I got enough. I think that's fine. But once I got into it and then figured out ways to use it.
And I think one of the things that helped is that as major mainstream media companies started to make it easy for you to amplify your stories via social media, it made sense to be able to have an access to Facebook and the Twitter and now to LinkedIn. So if there's a great story about the institution, all I have to do is go on and click. And then I've amplified that story for free.
So that I think part of that for me was seeing how those new sites started to change. And they had the little Twitter icon on there. And it was like, all I have to do is point and click.
And now I'm telling other people about what's happening here. So a lot of this is just being practical.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, practical and using using free tools as you talked about earlier. And I think that it's probably evolved over time because now it gives you kind of access to being able to engage with students, current or perspective and families. And how are you leveraging that even with other constituencies? I mean, certainly I'm sure that there are community members and things like that.
How's that working out?
SPEAKER_02
So I look at the platforms differently because I find that different constituencies will reach you in certain places. Students are more instant and so they'll get a lot of information off of Twitter, even though particularly, and I think some people try to use it like some of the airlines are really good. If somebody has a problem with their luggage, they have their help person that's on Twitter all the time and we don't have that kind of bandwidth.
So for me, it becomes a tool that particularly if a student reaches out via Twitter, I want them to send me an email so I can get more detail to really address the issue. So sometimes people say, well, you know, just meet them where they are. It's like, that's a starting point for me, but it doesn't give me enough information and 280 characters to really solve that.
So that's part of it. But for the general population, Twitter becomes a good tool just to share what's happening on campus. That's very important.
Parents and alums lean a little bit more toward Facebook. So, you know, pictures of events and those stories that go there, I can reach some of them. LinkedIn, you'll get, I think LinkedIn, you start to get more of the unsolicited.
Hey, I got this deal for Dillard. So you try to weed some of that out as a part of that. But yeah, those are different ways.
And then just having the platforms, particularly like foundations, foundations will do their research and look at what's on your platforms to see what's happening. So all of the platforms come into play for them. And then, you know, Instagram is another like Facebook, but it's shorter where you can have just some pictures and, you know, almost like announcements and bulletin boards.
So I use it more in that or just simple congratulations about different things. So I have a different mindset for what I want to share per platform. And they are a little, the audience, the audience is skewed a little differently based on the platform issues.
SPEAKER_01
That's great. And I guess one of the questions I have about that is, and I might be hearing people who are on the listening right now, they might be saying, OK, that's great. Where did you learn that? How did you do that? My guess is, and if I mean, being a generation extra myself, we kind of figure things out and I'm guessing that's kind of what you've done.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that's trial and error. I mean, that's really wasn't I mean, there are people now doing scholarly work about how do you maximize or use these platforms? But right. You know, once again, I became a president the same year Facebook started.
So they're figuring out Facebook and I'm figuring out Facebook at the same time. Yeah. And so that's I think that's just been part of it. And you I don't think you have to use all the platforms.
I think sometimes I mean, I, you know, I have an account on Periscope. People don't really use Periscope because you can do video on Instagram and Facebook. So that doesn't really exist.
A lot of people talk about the benefits of TikTok. I, you know, I have an account that's there just to protect the brand, but I don't use it. And based on studies that we've done for our campus, our campus is much more of a Twitter campus, so I'm not going to really expand my reach if I go to TikTok.
That's not going to. I mean, I have a 15 year old daughter. She likes TikTok.
So that's it. I just, you know, the ones that I want to use, I really lean into those and others I'm aware of and I haven't really found a good use for them yet. And so I'm not pressed to do that.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. OK. What would you say for other campuses that are saying like, hey, we really think that our our president, his personality or her personality would go well in social media. How would you encourage them to help them get involved? Or is that something where it's like, well, if they don't already do it and they're not already naturally there, it might not be the best use of their time.
SPEAKER_02
Well, I think presidents, more presidents are open to having that kind of presence at our accreditation meeting in the South, Southern Association of Colleges and Schools. About three or four years ago, Josie Alquist, who does a lot of work in this area, she's she was a speaker for President's Day. So, I mean, she showed them examples as to how college presidents can be effective on social media.
And I had a lot of people asking me questions afterwards because, you know, I was one of her examples a number of times. So I think a lot of people are aware of it. I think there still is some reticence by people just because they might think that, oh, I'm too old or really engaged that way.
And I always tell them it's like Gordon Gidd at West Virginia is in his mid to late seventies and he's an active presence on social media. So don't give me the I'm too old answer because that's not it. But you just have to find a way that you're comfortable in using it.
It doesn't mean that you need to be on there all day. It might just be a couple of times that you pick. I always encourage people to make sure it's more authentic because some places you got a team of people that do their social media for them.
And I'm not a fan of that at all. I rather you not do it than just have somebody posting as you. Right. I think it's better if it's authentic. But it's, you know, it's it's scary for some people because then, you know, you're there and if somebody's mad about something that happens on campus, they're going to ask you and you're going to get the vitriol.
And that sort of comes with the territory.
SPEAKER_03
So well, first, I would encourage our listeners if they haven't followed Dr. Kimbrough already to go out there and do so on Twitter and the other platforms that he is on. And you'll see that he is authentic.
He needs very engaging, very dynamic. And would love for you to share a story or two. I think the one that I'm most curious about and would love for everyone to know is the story behind you getting Denzel Washington to do the commencement address that I think is one of the most famous commencement addresses on YouTube.
SPEAKER_02
Right. So this is one where at the end of the story, after it happened, we were able to use social media, something like YouTube to really amplify what happened on our campus. So Denzel Washington filmed a movie in New Orleans right after Katrina with Paula Patton and he heard about Dillard.
And in one of the scenes, he has a black on black Dillard hat. So if you watch this movie, you see this Dillard hat on and he gave money because we're the oldest HBCU speech and theater program in the country. He gave a million dollars a Dillard university.
So that's right after Katrina. He was in town, heard about Dillard. And so we were thinking for commencement ahead, say this is going to be the 10th anniversary of Katrina 2015.
Let's send Denzel Washington and we have his people's information. Let's see if it do commencement. We sent him the letter in October, so October 2014.
So it's February. We haven't heard anything. It's like, all right, we better get somebody.
So I reached out to Don Lemon. He's a Louisiana native. He agreed to do it.
So one day I leave the office early. I'm going home to work out. Our work study student answers the call and it's Denzel Washington and she doesn't believe him.
So she passes the phone call on to my assistant and she says, Miss Kathy, somebody's on the phone playing and I don't know who it is. And so she answers Kathy answers the phone and it's Denzel Washington trying to reach me. So she gives him my cell number.
So I'm working out. It's like four in the afternoon, four thirty. I see this unlisted number.
I think it's Arnie Duncan because we've been having conversations about something I said, I'll call Arnie Duncan back later. I'm not worried about that now. And so I finished working out and I listened to the message and it's Denzel Washington saying basically, hey, I got your letter.
I'm sorry it took me so long to respond, but I know my schedule now. I'll be in the area. So if you want me to do commencement, I'll do it.
He was filming the Magnificent Seven, which is one of my favorite movies. And so it's like, Denzel Washington is saying I'm going to be in the area. I'm going to do this.
So we're like, cool, you know, it was great. And, you know, we did like a little preview for the seniors. I had to meet in the room and I actually played the voicemail message.
And so you know, this and around looking like, that's Denzel Washington. Or you they hear him saying, I'm coming to do your commencement. So that was like one of the coolest moments that happened.
So he came in. So, you know, he had only done one commencement before at Penn. So this is the second one he's ever done before.
And short to the point, like nine minutes. And this is really viral because it's like been viewed 30, 40 million times. And so, you know, we put it on our YouTube channel, but it's been on so many different platforms that this.
I mean, I think there was a report that came out recently. It's like the second most viewed commencement address ever behind one that I think Steve Jobs or Bill Gates gave one of the two. I can't remember which one.
So it's just been crazy. But that's how social media has amplified that. And every year, invariably, somebody pops up.
They show that this is a Washington speech at Dillard and it's great branding because you see him, you see the podium with Dillard University. And that's just that's going to live for an infamy. It's just going to be there forever.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah. And we see you to right beside him, Dr.
SPEAKER_02
Kimbrough. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's just one of those things, but that's the way that for us, social media just continues to just, you know, a great, you know, iconic moment in the history of this institution is at Denzel Washington commencement address.
SPEAKER_02
And because it was just so good, it was to the point. It was practical. So he was just like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
It was great. Everybody loved it. He kept it moving.
Yeah. I mean, that was perfect.
SPEAKER_01
Well, and it seemed like he really, when I've watched it, it's, I mean, he knew the audience and he really leaned into the audience. And I think that's for anybody, I think, and even when we're talking about social media, really being able to know your audience and lean into that and being able to be authentic, I think those are really good takeaways. Right. That's great.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah. No, it was, it was, I mean, just, it was a great, it was a great moment. And like I said, continues to live on when people talk about great commencement speeches, he always is mentioned.
And so just to have Dillard and Denzel mention together is always good.
SPEAKER_03
Dr. Kimbrough, is there a piece of advice that you would give other presidents or higher ed leaders that aren't as leaned into social media as you and maybe a tip or two to get them started and maybe a convincing reason why that they should do it.
SPEAKER_02
So one of my reasons I always tell people is that sometimes people feel like if they don't have an account on social media, they're not on social media. And that's a that's a mistake. Everybody's on social media.
They just don't have a way to sort of at you, but they are with your name in it. So you can't avoid it. You're a part of that conversation.
So since you're already a part of it, it's better to play an active role so you can decide how you want to participate in that and not just sort of be a bystander. I mean, so it is scary, like I said, the, you know, the toughest part because sometimes social media is a me space. You know, people go through outrage cycles.
We had a Senate debate here in Louisiana and we just rented out the space. And it wasn't a big deal until some kind of way David Duke qualified. So everybody was like, you know, you guys invited David Duke.
We were like, no, we didn't. I mean, we rented the space. We always were in spaces for debates.
He didn't qualify for the one two weeks ago. I still don't believe he qualified legitimately. I think it was somebody just did us wrong.
But that's a whole other story. So it's like, for, you know, for 24 hours, it's like, don't even look at your mentions because the whole world was mad at me because of that. And you let the outrage cycle go through and then you go about your business.
I mean, that's, you know, as the people who really know you and know the situation. And we use social media to tell our side of the story. But there's just going to be some times when you just get beat up.
That's just part of it. So I think you understand that. But in the end, can you leverage it to really get out stories about your institution in ways and it might spur additional people to write stories about your institution? So another really quick story.
I have always, when I got to Diller, when I learned that we were number two in the country for producing African Americans with degrees in physics, I was telling everybody I could about that. I was like, I would post about it a lot. Every time I gave a speech, I'll live with that.
So I had a reporter from the AP. This is 2016, I believe, who said, Hey, you are always talking about Diller than physics. And this is after we had secured Janelle Moné to be our commencement speaker.
And this is right after hidden figures that come out. So you got this movie about these women and stem. And this reporter from the AP says, I am going to pitch this story that we do an AP story on Diller than physics.
She pitches a story. She comes. They write the story.
They have the photographer here. That becomes another one of our viral moments because this story is an AP story it ran in every major newspaper in the country from the New York Times to the San Francisco Chronicle. And so now you're getting it amplified via social media and NBC News on their site.
So that was just another, but that was part of me always talking about physics, physics, physics that this AP reporter, it clicked for her to say, yeah, he's always talking about size. She saw Janelle Moné and she put the dots together and she ran with it. That's the power of social media.
That happens because of social media. It didn't happen because I wrote a, you know, a pitch letter, hey, do a story on this. She came up with the idea and she ran with it.
That's exactly right. That's part of me just continuing to say, here are good things that we're doing over and over again. And somebody picks it up and they say, this is a great idea.
Let's run with it. So to me, that's a benefit. Once again, it cost me nothing.
And the media hit that we got for having Janelle Moné alone would have been great, but then when they linked it to the movie and to our physics program, it took us to a whole nother level. Three costs me nothing. That's awesome.
I can't even calculate the ad value of having those stories in every major newspaper in the country.
SPEAKER_01
Very, very cool. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03
Well, again, we are honored to have had you as a guest on the higher ed marketer podcast. If we can, if someone would like to reach you, I mean, they can just Google you and there's so many ways that they can contact you. But is there a way that you prefer serious inquiries to come to you?
SPEAKER_02
Yeah. Well, you know, particularly folks interested in higher ed marketing, they can just email me. I check all my emails directly, wkembrough at dealer.
edu. And it doesn't normally take me a long time either. I always tell my students, if you haven't heard from me in 24 hours, it means I'm dead or it means called Liam Neeson because I was taken.
So I'll respond via email. So, you know, people who have questions about that, they can send me an email and I can share whatever I have on that.
SPEAKER_03
Thank you, doctor. Bart, do you have any parting words?
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, just a couple of things I wanted to point out that Dr. Kimbrough said just to kind of bring some emphasis to it. But I think that, uh, you know, Dillard is a, is a small school under a thousand undergrad students, if I'm correct, Dr.
Kimbrough. 1200. 1200. Okay. So 1200. So it's a small school.
So I know a lot of the audience that listens to the higher ed marketer, you would consider yourself a small to medium sized school, much like Dillard. I think one of the things that Dr. Kimbrough has talked about is just the power of social media and what that can do for a small school.
I mean, he kind of used the, the illustration at the beginning about the, the big state school in Arkansas that was spending a million dollars a year on advertising, just like Dr. Kimbrough and Dillard, I know a lot of these schools don't have that kind of budget, but you do have access to the same platforms that Dr. Kimbrough has with the social media, with Facebook, with social, with Twitter, with LinkedIn, with Instagram, leverage that and leverage that with several of your leaders.
I think that you'll, you know, rather than just relying on the, on the young student intern in the marketing department to do your Instagram, really lean into it and get some of your leadership behind that and, and leverage that free resource, which can really turn into something much more as Dr. Kimbrough has shared today. So thank you again, Dr.
Kimbrough. This has been a wonderful conversation. I think it's been very beneficial for our audience and it's been a pleasure to have you.
SPEAKER_03
Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks, Bart.
The Higher Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Kailer Solutions, an education marketing and branding agency, and by Thing Patented, a marketing execution printing and mailing provider of Higher Ed Solutions. On behalf of my co-host Bart Kailer, I'm Troy Singer. Thank you for joining us.
SPEAKER_00
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