SPEAKER_02
You're listening to the Higher Ed Marketer, the podcast for marketing professionals in higher education. Join us every week as we talk to the industry's greatest minds in student recruitment, donor relations, marketing trends, new technologies, and much more. If you're looking for conversations centered around where marketing in higher ed is going, this podcast is for you.
Let's get into the show.
SPEAKER_00
Welcome to the Higher Ed Marketer podcast. I'm Troy Singer here with my friend and co-host, Bart Kaler. And today, we are going to talk about a potpourri of enrollment marketing tactics with our good friend, Kristen Nichols, who is the founder of Nichols Higher Education.
And Bart, I know because after our conversation with her, we talked a little bit about it, that you loved a lot of the information she brought to us today.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. We talked about this idea of potpourri because I think there was just a mix of a lot of really good things in this episode. Talking about using faculty with yield results, geo-fencing, it's a little bit of everything, even getting into college closures and marketing and AI.
And so a lot of really good things. And I think you'll see a thread throughout that we talked about at the end just with intentionality. So planning and thinking it through.
And I think Kristen has a natural mind of doing that. And it's part of what she does. And so just kind of look out for that and think about how can I be more intentional in my own teams of the things we're talking about?
SPEAKER_00
I'll also add, I hope you follow her after this conversation because that's how we discovered her and she's a great follow on LinkedIn. Here's that conversation with Kristen Nichols. Kristen, we are so grateful that you agreed to come onto the podcast and share your wisdom and all things strategic enrollment marketing.
But before we get into that subject, would love for you to share something that you've learned recently that would fall into the fun or interesting category.
SPEAKER_03
Hi, Troy and Bart. Good to be here. You know, something that I've been utilizing more and more is I'm fronting AI to tell me about the average student at XYZ University or what type of research is happening at XYZ University or, you know, and seeing what comes back and if it is really accurate.
And I'm finding more often than not, it's not always on the money and that's not AI's fault. It's the university's website that needs to be audited. And, you know, this is the time if you haven't audited your website recently, today's the day to start and kill the pages that are, you know, low view numbers or are just completely out of date.
I was, it was eye opening to see what AI was actually referencing on certain websites and some of the pages were sincerely over a decade old and nobody even knew they were up and lied still. So, you know, just get somebody, get your web editor, get some people together to just go through page by page and say, what can we kill? What can we tighten up as far as content? Because that we all know everyone's using AI to start their their college search and everything else. So you might as well make sure that your the responses AI is is crafting or accurate.
SPEAKER_00
That's great. Thank you so much for that. And that's the reason why we have you on the show and we are getting right into it.
I do want to make sure we back up a little bit and for anyone who may not know you and I'm going to make sure or request everyone to follow you. Kristin, can you tell a little bit about yourself and the work that you do at Nichols Higher Education?
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I'm I'm Kristin Nichols. And I guess at this point, I'm a lifelong higher education marketing professional. I graduated from Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts, a small, beautiful school in the Berkshire Mountains of Western Massachusetts in 2001 with a communications degree.
I was a campus leader there. And I didn't really want to think about working in an office environment like a corporate environment. I loved being on a campus and said I probably would enjoy working at a college or a university.
And that's what I've done ever since and started out in traditional undergraduate admission roles in Washington, D.C. and in the Boston area. And it was lucky enough in 2007 to step foot on Northeastern's campus when they just broke into the top 100 US News and World Report rankings.
And that was an exciting time to be there. And they were probably one of the first universities to have an enrollment marketing team, would be my guess. And I witnessed a really strong group of marketers and wanted to do what they were doing and said, you know, I love the recruitment aspect of it.
But pointing back to my my communications degree, I wanted to do something more in line with what they were doing. So took a role at Bentley University and that was an enrollment marketing position. And then was lucky enough to be the director of enrollment marketing at the University of Massachusetts Lowell for merely eight years and then took a higher position at the University of Massachusetts Chan Medical School.
And and recently was at Bryant. But have also been working with my consultancy, Nichols, higher education for almost seven years, and that's my main focus right now.
SPEAKER_00
Wonderful. Now, I don't know if it was a previous conversation you and I have had, or maybe one of the other podcasts, but something that we wanted you to expand on here is some of the work that you've done around strategies for engaging faculty in yield efforts. And would love for you to kind of give us a little bit about that.
And then we'll dive into it because I think both Bart and I believe in that strategy.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, you know, faculty, they just want to be good partners. And it doesn't matter what institution you're working for or with throughout my career, our faculty have demonstrated care and the willingness to partner with marketing communications and enrollment management to improve outcomes. And it's one of the biggest joys that I've experienced in my career.
Of course, the main job of faculty members is to teach and conduct research. It's not to yield a class, right? And if you ask them to help you yield a class, but you don't offer them ways on how to go about doing that, you're really going to get a mixed bag of approaches that don't necessarily come together across the institution to improve outcomes. And this is probably going to water down that brand messaging, too, if you just let people go off on their own with no guidance or direction.
So you, Maslow, when the yield season rolled around, we asked faculty to support our goals with enrolling the class, but we decided it would be best to provide them with a digestible guide that showcased different ways to do so. And it was a small printed guide. And we also had a corresponding web page that was developed.
And we sent this to all the Dean's department chairs and supporting admins for distribution. And it had a lovely introductory note from the VP of Marketing and the Dean of Enrollment talking about the importance of this unified effort. And then the rest of the piece kind of was like an all-cart menu.
It gave the faculty members various options on what they could do, but allowed them to choose the options that felt best for them personally. That whole empowering them to do something versus dictating them on what to do that really builds buy-in. And we offered ideas on various types of events to hold, both on campus and virtual.
We guided them on handwritten notes. Who should they be from and how, what should you say? And provided them with a spreadsheet of admitted students and their contact information with, you know, a section where they could write down notes about the conversations they had with the student or the parent. And then they would send those spreadsheets back to us with their notes and they would be immediately implemented into the slate system by our slate admins so that we could really capture that data, that personalized conversation, but put it into the slate CRM.
We also had a templated suite of printed items for them to choose from if they wanted to do something print related. And we would input images that correlated with the program or, you know, that they were representing, but the overall suite kept with the undergraduate look and feel. So each item was individually created for the major and the faculty member who requested it, while also keeping the strong brand recognition that made the admit and their family immediately recognize that it came from UMass Lowell.
And we also gave cost parameters for these printed items so the faculty members could see how much a small print run would cost the department. And overall, it wasn't much money. We're talking short dollars, but it's still good to give them.
Like, this is how much it's going to cost you. It was a few hundred dollars. And it was all about that partnership and empowerment.
And it worked to unify the effort and the players across campus. And it was fairly easy to update each year. Once we had it written, it was a quick thing to just revise and improve year after year.
And my contact information was prominently displayed so folks could easily shoot me an email or call me to talk through ideas. And we also reminded them how to start a project with our office through the project request form, which was the swiftest way for requested project needs to get completed and have the correct creative members start working on the projects.
SPEAKER_01
That's really so exciting. I mean, when I hear you talk about that, I mean, there's just so many things that I love about that that I know in my experience, kind of the way you did that is the right way to do it. It reminds me a little bit.
We had Missouri Baptist on a couple of weeks ago talking about the hospitality playbook and how they were really wanting to lean into hospitality. And so they put together a playbook of what their vision was and why it fit into their mission. And, you know, simple things about when we have guests on campus, make sure that everyone has their name tag on.
Or if you see trash, pick it up. I mean, simple common sense stuff that sometimes it's just good to have that documented. So I love the fact that you are having all this documentation, the templates and and in the, you know, the toolbox that you're really giving your faculty.
And and the other thing that I like about it, and this goes, I think, in general, to how we as marketers need to relate to faculty. I often tell people I was actually having lunch with a with a marketer today and he's new to higher ed. And I said, OK, the first rule that I want you to know is do not go to faculty and say, what do you think or what do you want? Because they will tell you because they they will let you know exactly what they want.
And sometimes you're not going to be able to deliver on that. So instead, create it more like you're going to ask them to react to something rather than asking them to be proactive. And I have found that that is something that even as you're doing this, what you described was that you were helping faculty react to the need that you had.
So you gave them a template, you gave them choices. You gave them options. You helped them customize it based on who they are, their department need and things like that.
So being able to have them react to what you're putting in front of them, as opposed to saying, hey, we want you to send out 35 emails to prospective students. And here's the list that forces them to be proactive. They're not going to do it.
And so I just those are really good rules of thumb that I think that that you've you've laid out. Just react to that because I'm curious. You're you're shaking your head and I want to hear what you have to say.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, no, you're right, Bart. This is completely anecdotal. And again, this is this is stuff that I am proud of that my colleagues and I thought about and implemented.
But the feeling I have is that it made us strong partners and folks across campus valued our department because we put the effort in and empowered people. And really, it made relationships stronger.
SPEAKER_01
And I'm not trying to disrespect faculty at all. I'm just saying that if you want those kind of relationships that Kristen is talking about, respecting the faculty to be allow them to react because you were proactive, it'll go a lot further in your relationship as well. I think it's worth saying before we move on, Troy, another thing about faculty.
This was something that Tim Fuller used to say, Tim. Tim was a mentor of mine. He passed away last year, but he often talked about even like on campus tours.
At smaller schools, especially faculty kind of become critical in those campus tours. But he said that realize that not all faculty are the same. So he called him Broom Closet faculty.
So there are some faculty that you'd rather put in the Broom Closet when the tour is going on, as opposed to have them come out to engage with prospective students. So I think it's also worth noting, Kristen, I'm sure you found this at your institutions. Some faculty took to this and did very well, and it was very, very well received.
They did an excellent job at move the numbers. Other faculty, we have some convergence sometimes in our midst. They were not the best fit.
And so don't expect every faculty to just play the game like you're saying. Is that your experience as well?
SPEAKER_03
Absolutely. And you don't want to put a faculty member or anyone in a position that's going to be unnatural for them. So that is why, yes, lean on the ones who are really good at this.
They're going to, you know, improve things for everyone across the board. And and that's, you know, what you need to remain focused on. And yes, absolutely.
We always had strong players at every university that you knew you could get them in front of families. You could get them in front of parents. And they were going to just have this moment to make everyone shine.
And there were others who their their values and what they brought to the table or in different areas. And that's OK, too.
SPEAKER_01
Exactly. I love that. That's great stuff.
SPEAKER_00
Kristen, to change topics just a little, we know that you have implemented very successful geo fencing strategies for graduate programs. So if you would, please describe how some of these have been tailored for a specific audience and the effectiveness of these campaigns.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, so geo fencing is fine. I like to geo fence and try it. And it's always been, for the most part, a beneficial strategy.
But recently I was overseeing a digital ad effort in a foreign market. And when I stepped into the project, the digital digital campaign was having little success. I mean, the conversion numbers were terrible.
And the country we were displaying the ads in had an enormous population. And the conversion was low because the ads just weren't targeted enough. I think what was happening is the agency and the internal players in the marketing office were targeting based on American ideals and American.
And it just wasn't translating over to this foreign country with a huge population. So the parameters needed to be improved and shrunk down. The demos had to be smaller so that we could pop conversion and improve click throughs.
So we happened just by chance to be partnering with the university in this foreign country on a different effort. So we took a look at just overall what we could do and said, well, we're already out there with this other effort. So why don't we layer the brand on top so that we're hitting them more than once with advertisements for the institution? So that's when we started geofencing.
We would geofence the physical campuses in this country where we were advertising already for a different effort and the surrounding areas. But when I say surrounding, still pretty tight because, again, big populations. But it worked well and we did see an overall improvement, a significant improvement within 60 days.
I mean, we were the click throughs popped. It was the form fills popped and everyone was was excited about that strategy, improving things.
SPEAKER_01
I think that's great. And I love the fact that there was just that short time frame that you were able to make those adjustments and see those improvements. And we were recently talking to Ashley Mung from Anya on another episode and she was talking about programmatic advertising, which is a little bit different than what you're describing.
But one of the things that she really underscored was the idea that really being able to understand your target audience and being able to rather than just sending it out and casting too wide a net, being able to tighten that up. And the fact that you were able to just kind of actually geofence around those areas that you might already be known. I think that's a brilliant, brilliant move.
And so, again, there's just so many nuances and marketing expertise that you have to bring into the table, even in digital advertising. That I think that a lot of times the marketing department can bring a lot of insight, even though you might be hiring an outside firm or an outside agency to help. That doesn't remove you from the mix.
You've got to really be able to bring in your domain expertise. And so it sounds to me like that was part of what you were able to do even in this relationship and these different things.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it was. And so the other thing that I should add on is I had never been to this country and we leaned on the faculty because faculty members who are native to this country. And we said, like, does this feel right? And what do you think? Like as somebody who, you know, hails from this area, is this and they first of all loved that we asked them for their input.
And I think it wasn't just a success for the marketing team. It was a success for the university because of that, you know, that ability to pull in people who knew firsthand what it was like culturally. And that's important too.
Don't try to figure it out on your own. That was the problem at the forefront. People were trying to figure it out on their own and they just didn't have the expertise to really improve things.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. And I think that's a good point because I think a lot of times people know, oh, I know research would help us with this, but we don't have the budget to do research. We don't have the budget to do that.
Well, the fact is, is that you didn't have the budget to do research, but you did research anyway because you talked to faculty experts. You maybe pulled in some students who were from that area. Maybe you talked to the school that you partner with over there and get them on a Zoom call.
I think a lot of times it's too easy for us to say we just can't do that because we can't afford it as opposed to trying to really creatively think, how can we get the answer that we're trying to find with the limited budget, limited resources that we have. So kudos for you for pulling in the faculty to do that and talk to them. So this is, there's a lot of really good things here.
I'm excited to have everybody listen to this episode.
SPEAKER_03
Thanks. And I echo everything you just said.
SPEAKER_00
That's great. Kristen, I want to make sure that we go into the next question and topic with the deference that it deserves. Given the increasing number of college closures, what proactive strategies have you implemented to manage the challenge effectively?
SPEAKER_03
Look, I want to be clear that working in higher education right now, especially for those of us who live in New England is not easy. It's we're all getting a little roughed up right now, aren't we? And the college bound population in New England has dropped significantly and we witnessed the closure of several institutions already in the past few years here. And this is devastating.
I just want to be clear. This is devastating, not just for those affiliated with the closing schools, but for the local community in the areas, many of which are rural. And these are jobs.
And it's a financial impact. The region, its economy is shaken because of these closures. And it's just not great for the field of higher education overall.
And for us in New England, we are a tight-knit group and everyone knows everyone. This is one of the major fields that people go into because of the volume of universities in this region. So it's often that there are faces and names attached to these college closures.
Many of us have watched personal contacts lose jobs or be forced with the prospect of transferring or having their child transfer from a place that they were truly happy to be at and loved being on campus. And as public servants, we must witness and understand this enrollment cliff and that the closure is happening. And unpack that so we can improve the field and come out of this enrollment cliff better than how we entered it.
So we have to ask the tough questions and take a look in the mirror, so to speak.
SPEAKER_01
I think that it is a challenging time. I think the enrollment cliff is here. Sadly, I heard somebody tell me a few months ago that their president thought it was fake news.
I was like, seriously, this is not fake news. And anybody from New England or other parts of the country that are going to be most impacted, I would throw in the Midwest into that. Those are going to be challenging times coming forward and it's not going to end anytime soon.
So I love the fact that we're talking about this because it is a real thing and there are a lot of impacts going on personal lives and things like that. But I mean, there's also a responsibility that the other schools that who are still healthy need to be able to provide for some of those students that are stuck where they are or some of the faculty or some of the other things. So let's just talk a little bit about maybe some of those proactive strategies that you've been a part of at some of the institutions that you've been been influencing.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah. So I'll just say that before any school actually shuts its doors, we often know that they're on the brink of closing, right? We have, you know, water pool of conversations about school XYZ being on the brink of closing. And it's a smart idea for marketers to take a look at those institutions that are fragile and take a look at their websites and use other sources like niche, for example, to see where there's overlap between the university where you're employed and the university that's possibly about to close.
What are the overlapping programs? What's the pricing structure like? Are you comparable? And, you know, what other types of overlaps are there? And, you know, campus life, the area, etc. And start compiling data about the overlaps. And do that, you know, summer's a great time to do stuff like this, you know, as we're closing one school year down and we're about to ramp up for another.
This is the type of work that, you know, have interns do or something like that to get you ready for the upcoming year. And there was a school that closed and once we heard the news, this is exactly what we did. We quickly went to work to build this spreadsheet of overlaps.
And then we created a landing page specifically for students at that school, the perfectly outlined and digestible in a digestible way, the overlaps and sent them straight to the transfer counselor for immediate human interaction. Yeah. Immediate human interaction. That's the phrase that everybody needs to go on to here.
The closing school is having a transfer fair in like a week or something. So then once this web page was live, we threw money around the campus and not a lot of money, but we we too offense the campus. Sure. So we were able to close the school. And we were able to close the school.
And we were able to close the school. And we were able to close the school. And we were able to close the school.
And we were able to close the school. And we were able to close the school. And we were able to close the school.
And we were able to close the school. And we were able to close the school. And we were able to close the school.
And we were able to close the school. And we were able to close the school. And we were able to close the school.
And we were able to close the school. And we were able to close the school. And we were able to close the school.
And we were able to close the school. And we were able to close the school. And we were able to close the school.
And when the transfer fair was done, we went ahead and built multiple test pages that were ready to go in our CMS because we knew that there were other schools about to close. And we had similar ads ready to go. And not long after, there was another school that announced its closure.
And our test page went up within an hour. It was in the globe here in Boston. And I think that web page was up within an hour.
We reviewed it. and set it live, and then we went ahead and geofenced their campus within 24 hours. Why that's important is we were ready to go so that we could have the human interaction takeover.
We weren't bogged down with getting all of this, you know, digital presence and, you know, forms put into sleigh and that type of thing. Everything was ready to go so that the transfer counselor could immediately interact with the prospective students who are really reeling because their campus was closing and that, if there is a win, and I don't really call this situation one where there's wins, but it was still, it was a good thing to support those people who needed to find a new home for their academics and preparation is key.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and I think, I love the fact that you added that last point because I mean, it can sound a little bit like vultures, you know, hey, we're getting ready to swoop in and get the kill, but I think that I often try to tell different partners that I work with that, you know, hey, if there is a closing in your area, it is your responsibility to help them and to be there and to be good neighbors and to help those students. And so I like the fact that you guys actually took the time to prepare for that and to be aware of what was going on around you and to put those plans in place. And I do agree that that preparation is key.
I would also say that when you do prepare, not only prepare that if this happens during the school year, but what happens if it happens in the summer? Because a lot of schools, I mean, I've just heard in the last few weeks who have announced closures, well, students are gone. So a lot of the plans that you guys put in place, you couldn't necessarily run that plan because students aren't there. And so I know I had a client recently that heard, it was last summer, heard about a school closing.
And so I called, you know, my friends at Ring Digital, Troy, and I said, hey, can you guys help? And they actually have some technology that could go back in time, which seems crazy, but, you know, they could go back in time a month when the students were on campus and capture all of the data of the cell phones that were on campus and create a retargeting campaign for the students when they were on campus. It's not perfect and it does degrade date over time, but there's technology out there that if you know the different ways and you can put that in your plan, then it's a matter of not saying, oh man, what are we gonna do? What could we do? You've got a plan in place. And so I think that's so, so critical.
And I love the fact that you've kind of talked through that. And then I think that not only of being able to market to those students and kind of work that plan that you said, but when you talk about that human touch, which I think is the part that a lot of people forget about, how do you actually, you know, putting that human plan, that human touch plan in, and having the plans to do that to help those affected students. I mean, what are some of the key points that you would wanna say about that?
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it's just, you know, anticipating things and being prepared just means that you're there first. And you know, there's a, while we were busy doing this, there was this whole conversation taking place between our head of enrollment and individual on their campus to say, we're so sorry. And we did this with as much respect as possible.
And how are you feeling? What do you need? What is your staff need? And what can we do to help? And that is the humanity piece of this all. And so it's a two-pronged approach, but it worked and it was a respectful way to do it. Well, none of us wanted to be vultures.
And certainly we didn't feel like we were being vultures.
SPEAKER_01
No, and I'm sure that the students didn't either because they felt that human touch.
SPEAKER_03
Correct. We did it, and you know, we did it properly.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, that's great. Kristen, we have one final question that we would like to ask you, but before I get to it, first I want to acknowledge our sponsors by thanking Bart for mentioning what we call our digital time machine, what we're able to do to go back and capture device IDs in an area through a reverse geo fence, but then also acknowledge some of the work that we do within the enrollment funnel through our household targeting. So thank you Ring Digital, my bosses who enable me to be here each and every week with Bart.
Bart, if you would please share a little bit about Kailer Solutions.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I'm just really proud of the work that we've done for the past several years, 15 years of Kailer Solutions, but three years almost here in the higher ed marketer. And so just a lot of marketing, a lot of branding, a lot of AI training right now. And so if you have any needs for enrollment or advancement type of marketing and communications, we can certainly help you out there as well.
So thanks Troy.
SPEAKER_00
Kristen, back to you. We end every conversation with our guests by asking them if there is a tip or some piece of advice that they could offer that once heard by our listener could be easily or immediately implemented, that would move a brick at their institution. What would that be?
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I think we started out about this, but just implementing AI to really dig in because we know prospects are going to AI to read about everything, including the campuses that they're looking at. Another piece that I had a conversation this morning with a colleague in Rhode Island is we have to also, this is my opinion, stop bucketing people as traditional grad students versus undergrad. Certainly we still have those, but the current climate is that we're going to have people dipping their toes in both areas, doing things simultaneously.
So rather than having your grad shift and your undergrad shift going down the river in the same direction, but they're two separate shifts, maybe it's time to talk about building a bigger ship where everybody's in the same place and having a little bit more unification across efforts. And I'm not saying that you wanna speak to a prospective graduate student the same way as an undergraduate, but there is some overlap, things are changing. And if we wanna come out of this enrollment cliff in this really difficult decline in population, well, we need to understand what the prospective student consumer in their family wants.
And start talking about the value of the degrees we offer because everyone out there is trying to tell us that higher education is worth it anymore. And I cry foul. So let's talk about how to tell them what the value is.
SPEAKER_00
Amen, that's great. Well said, Kristen. Again, everyone, Kristen Nichols, she's a founder of Nichols Higher Education.
Kristen, how can someone best reach you if they would like to connect with you after hearing this conversation?
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, sure. I'm active on LinkedIn. NicholsHigherEd.
com is the website for my consultancy. And please feel free to connect with me. I'm happy to spitball ideas with people.
And if anyone has a need for a fractional or interim CMO partnership or has strategic marketing, communication, planning or project management needs, Nichols Higher Education would love to speak to you about those. And our mission in Nichols Higher Ed is to elevate institutional presence and student success through efficient project management and partnerships with institutions.
SPEAKER_00
Thank you, Kristen. Bart, do you have any final words that you would like to share before we end our episode?
SPEAKER_01
Just to kind of underscore a lot of what Kristen talked about, I think that there's a lot of intentionality that Kristen talked about. I think that was a theme that kind of ran through this entire conversation. I mean, whether it be from the very beginning when we were talking about the intentionality of helping faculty get involved in yield campaigns, I mean, it's more than just asking them, hey, would you help us out? It's actually being intentional to put them, putting toolbox in front of them, giving them training, giving them opportunities to personalize it, all kinds of things.
And then as we kind of went in and talked more about, just the idea of moving into these geofencing and digital advertising strategies, again, intentionality. You're not just casting a big wide net, you're actually deciding, hey, we need to geotarget just this city with this crowd and this amount. And finally there, just in the last part when we talked about the school closures and even the use of AI, I love the fact that everything Kristen's talked about is thoughtful, it's well planned out, and it's executed on a very predictable way.
And I think more and more of us in higher education marketing need to kind of lean into that, lean into standard operating procedures, being able to kind of start working through what we're doing a little bit more intentional rather than just saying, well, I can't do it, I don't have the budget, we don't have enough, what was me? I think we've got to be a little bit more strategic about things. So Kristen, thank you so much. It's been a wonderful, wonderful conversation.
SPEAKER_03
Well, thanks to you both and Bar, I have to tell you, I devour your content. Thank you for being a guide for me, especially around AI. You're motivating me to be better, so thank you.
SPEAKER_01
Well, thank you, that's kind to say.
SPEAKER_00
Although I would love to leave it right there, thank you for those words, Kristen. I also want to let our audience know if you enjoyed our conversation day with Kristen Nichols, please subscribe to the Higher Ed Marketer podcast on your favorite platform, and don't forget to like or maybe even leave a recommendation for us. Really helps us expand the reach of the podcast.
As always, we owe a special thank you to Rob Conlon and his team at Westport Studios for helping us put out the best episode we can each and every week. On behalf of Kristen, Bart, and myself, Troy, thank you so much for joining us today.
SPEAKER_02
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