SPEAKER_02
James we had Clint Butler on I love to you know stir the pot Love a bit of SEO drama. So I think we I definitely sprinkled that in today. What do you think? Yeah?

SPEAKER_01
No, it's always good to chat to Clinton his views on SEO that always interesting I mean, I've kind of subscribed to his take on backlinks and his relevance and authority and stuff like that But also I love how he's always open and talking about you know, Google hates affiliates I'm feeling at marketers are always being kind of pushed out and it's refreshing to hear because you know As we know everyone's always talking about it's not it's not Google It's you know the people with the websites running the content blah blah blah blah, but It's single at least he sees as a clear vendetta against the typical affiliate marketer Which is a which is awesome that we run into but when we dive into a lot of other stuff to schema

SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it's good to have a different perspective because I feel like we get stuck in well At least I do I get stuck in an echo chamber of just affiliates So we just tend to say the same things over and over again Whereas like it's refreshing to hear from another SEO and another industry, you know

SPEAKER_01
Yeah No, exactly man If anyone else thing as well if you want to chat more go down the description jump into the advice community that thing is growing like crazy You also get a lifetime 10% discount with that link on there. So make sure you check that out I mean, I mean shit what what was just posted today some massive 40% off some kind of like PBN links that massive Google sheet of parasite pay Parasite placement you can buy dirt cheap. Oh my gosh.

I went through that whole list to have a look to see what was being sold there

SPEAKER_02
That was pretty nuts. Yeah, dude. Yeah a lot of nuggets in there and Yeah, if you're not in there and you're an SEO you guys are missing out This is actually it's pretty killer as of late in the beginning was kind of slow I don't know but now now now you know how in the beginning I was like James What do you think of advice, you know, it gets there's some slow days, but now there's no slow slow days pops off every day So I'm happy about that.

So everyone go sign up use The coupon code down below and you'll get a huge discount and it's freaking yeah, you get it every month. So Sign up guys chat there go listen to the pod like subscribe hit the bell notification I will see you guys next week. What's good everyone is track a child And this is James Delicey and you're listening to this week in digital marketing All right, what's going on guys we got the infamous Clint Butler on the pod today Clint We've I don't think we've spoken before have we I see you around Facebook groups see you on Twitter, but I don't think we've really spoken directly No, I don't think so that

SPEAKER_00
I can remember probably me

SPEAKER_01
Loves pulling people retards and Facebook groups and stuff based on the things that post That's why you see him around

SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I'm a seeker of drama But yeah, why don't you give the audience a quick intro about yourself and we can take it from there?

SPEAKER_00
So Clint Butler is my name former military 22 years in the army retired Right before I got out well I say right before but it was a couple years before I got out and yeah I wanted the business of my own and then it was going to be something around the digital marketing space so Started my own agency started learning SEO in the affiliate Marketing space did a lot of black hat stuff learning adult casinos, you know the hard niches, you know where no one else really works Figure that stuff out and then when I did retire And I was finished a two-year tour in Afghanistan as a contractor came home and started my own agency Since then I've been doing the agency work. I do consulting and then I also have a membership site and Assas so kind of spread out a little bit

SPEAKER_02
Yes, sir. We call that diversity on the pod. But what what is a? What is your biggest revenue source right now? Is it the agency on retainers or?

SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it's a biggest is the biggest is the agency and the biggest part of that is the consulting work I Which I like the best because you get to tell everyone what you should do And then whether they do it or not it's on them So you don't get blamed for any of that and they do all the worst to you. So it's good

SPEAKER_02
Good good. What kind of companies do you work with?

SPEAKER_00
mainly rehab and Then a couple small business websites It's niche type websites news kind of thing small business trends. I don't know if you guys know them They're one of my consulting clients But mainly mainly rehab

SPEAKER_02
Nice nice Rehab like local SEO that you do local SEO for them or do you just consult like you just tell them what to do Like you should do this this this and then

SPEAKER_00
One of the clients that he's got a network of 700 websites those are different You know, that's one type of project and then I actually work with actual treatment centers From local SEO perspective Also some maps rankings, but I deal with maps to be quite honest. So but mainly organic

SPEAKER_02
Nice nice and And your billables are you mentioned consulting? So I guess that's an hourly thing and then I guess you have Retained clients as well, right? Yeah

SPEAKER_00
The trick with retainer versus the hourly billable is making sure that you guess, right? So When you're doing consulting that's pretty easy four hours figure out whatever you want for that total month and then that's what your hourly rate is and then With the the regular actually doing the work. I mean, that's obviously what city are you in what niche are you in? What's your competition look like are they smarter than them and then that's your rate when you figure out your rate from there

SPEAKER_02
Hmm. Got it. Got it. Nice, man Okay, and I'm guessing you have your own projects as well. You mentioned sass.

What is that about?

SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I have a it's called rank gear rank gear calm. It's a schema builder I like schema. I enjoyed using it and And optimizing sites with it was kind of an easy win kind of thing so And and I run a testing group and part of that doing that testing we figured out the general schema the stuff that you get off of The Google documents or you get out of rank math or Yoast or whatever that stuff.

I mean it's better than nothing but ultimately is not doing anything for you So we've learned out of the advanced schema And in the process of that we were looking at tools to make it easier because a lot of people just don't know what don't want to or Don't want or can't learn Jason LD and this syntax that goes along with creating an Advanced schema in that way. So we we made a rank gear It's kind of filled the gap between all those free tools that you can find online and something like schema app And schema app is very very advanced and I don't know if you guys have ever been in that thing But I mean if you're not in there every day using schema app, you're gonna have to relearn it every time, right? So rank gears that's right in the middle of that and you can go in there and create your own templates all that stuff and then turn it Into a form filler so if James writes a really cool schema and he rather than teaching you Jackie how to do it He just here's the template and you just go there and you fill out the form and you've got the scheme in the James came up with

SPEAKER_02
Gotcha, gotcha interesting. All right, and um Is that like a subscription base then it's or is it like a one-time? Yeah, it's a subscription base Okay, okay

SPEAKER_01
Sorry, Jackie What are you putting it on that schema clip in terms of the depth of are you going like full on the author? I'm same as and then like the topic same as and trying to put as much in there as possible

SPEAKER_00
It really depends on where you're at right? So if you're if you're doing a you're just creating a page for example like Craig Campbell He teaches makeup like a hundred articles see which one's rank and then optimize those right? So if you're doing that kind of thing you can use just about mentions and add the entities in there And ultimately what you're doing is just saying hey, these are the related entities for the topic of this page You're not keyword stuffing Google's not gonna rank you based off of having those entities in there or ever You're just saying this is what this page is about in general Versus if you're going all out and you want to establish expertise authority and trust and all that madness if you believe in it Then you can use author profiles. So and then establish As an example Jackie is an SEO expert and he's also cited on search engine and search engine journal and Here's his Facebook and Twitter and everything and make a real person out of that just using schema alone without Because you think it's like an algorithm a real person can go to a website see Jackie wrote an article and then start researching it Google's not gonna do that The the bot is not going to do all that stuff. So you need to be able to express that on that page to say that this page Was written by an expert and it's realistic to see in in schema This is a web page was written by this person published by this organization And this is what it's about and you can use schema to do that and accomplish it and you can do it In particular for easy keywords you can do it without actually putting any content on the page at all

SPEAKER_01
And where does that where does that fit and I guess your hierarchy of what you're focusing on for example? You're focusing on maybe optimizing on page You may be looking at off page getting links etc to schema kind of come next on there or just give it for somewhere else

SPEAKER_00
Well for me, it's it's probably it's the second right so I do content optimization phrase Neuron writer clear scope in links Cora Well not not core yet and then go to schema after I know where the page is gonna rank That'll put me up to a little bit more then do the Cora because there's a whole bunch of extra crap The core tells you to do and then do the backlinks So schema would be I mean second

SPEAKER_02
Crazy man schema is like such a unknown for me. I it's not something I've Regularly focus on dude. I'm just I'm out here like slinging AI righted Yeah, our AI written affiliate content.

That's crazy. I didn't know it's such a needle mover

SPEAKER_00
I've been talking and presenting schema at conferences probably for three four years now and To this day what you just said is pretty much the norm And I don't I really don't understand it Frankly because we've proven over and over you can do it right Terry Samuels created a an entire website blank website well not blanket I had an image and video on every page and he used schema alone to rank every page in this website I Did it with a blank page So I had the standard header and the standard footer and there's no content whatsoever in between because everyone was like Oh Terry's was a fluke right or I just got the image in the videos trying to find excuses For why it's not so I did it with a blank page and I ranked the page for just schema number one mind you for the keyword and it's survived like five updates already so Knowing all that eventually people are gonna catch on the downside is that people are looking already at AI How do we get a I to write my schema? Well, if you're doing it properly AI is not gonna not yet capable of doing it And then you have the plugins which most people you know have the AI content throw it in there and wait for the hope the plug-in will do all the schema stuff naturally so I mean in advance writing that advanced stuff we do we don't do it for every page in the website It's just ridiculous the amount of work you put in for to write an advanced schema You don't have to do that, but if rather would you rather spend? I don't know an hour to write a good advanced schema less than that once you get a template or A thousand bucks on backlinks Pense I know valuable your hour is I guess

SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah, it's it's a tough call and In your example where you said you ranked with schema alone. What type of keywords are these are they like? They're obviously they can't be high competition So I guess they're lower competition. What kind of search volume are we looking at like lower?

SPEAKER_00
Kerry's example He tells it all the time. It's a affordable web design. That's the keyword Mm-hmm and cross his and then mine where I did it with no content at all.

It's fountain Hills SEO It's the city in Arizona real rich a lot of the competition is not a lot right so The point of that isn't to say oh look I can go rank for weight loss with just schema I mean, let's be real right. Yeah, sure. But it is to say this is the value and Google is using that schema To say what your page is about so in Terry's test the The counter argument because he had an image and video on there that Google could potentially Put the title tag the image and the videos together and go this is what that page is about And mine was this to show look if you tell Google Enough in the head using schema what that page is about.

They're not gonna read the rest of that page so that algorithm is got a minimum viable I don't want to say product but minimum viable standard to determine what your web page is about And all the rest of the stuff that you're doing in there might not necessarily be needed if your schema is saying This is what this page is about

SPEAKER_02
Okay, okay, I think I Get the general gist of it is so so it's kind of like something. It's a Something to tick off on your to-do list, right? When you're working on this certain page, for example, right?

SPEAKER_00
So you do AI content. Let's let's Play this argument. So you do AI content and you you do rewrite it or you write it.

You optimize it You clean it up make sure it's perfect Go through grammar Lee and all that stuff and you're like I got perfect sentences and this all this is all sounds great And as well research and anyone come here and understand that target Google goes to it and goes this is a bunch of gibberish I am and it's looking for what is the primary keyword you're written about typically is gonna find it in the title Mm-hmm, and then ultimately it's looking and doing an analysis and saying All right, he used this word X 15% of the time. Yes keyword density does matter, right? So he's using keyword density All right, so the highest keyword density is SEO now these are the known Terms in the knowledge graph associated with SEO on page off page link building for example and he's used them enough in his his His document we found those instances enough in that document to say that this page is about SEO So it's got to go through and do all that process and analysis or it can just find the schema and find SEO this page is about and it mentions on page off page link building all that stuff and it's answered that question without having to Analyze your content because it can't read Do we can't read so you can write as high quality content as you want it doesn't matter if the algorithm that gets high quality Yeah, okay does that do the text analysis?

SPEAKER_02
Mm-hmm Okay, fair fair I guess the counter argument to that is Let's say you have two sites if it's exactly the same in terms of you know Backlinks to the root domain So on so forth quality of the content is the same one has schema one doesn't I guess the site with schema would rank higher Right if in a perfect world in a assuming it's well written

SPEAKER_00
So if you just have you just throw a yo schema in there, which yeah Those don't have any of the entity association stuff in there But assuming that it's if it was your page and my page and James wrote both of our pages And they're optimized the exact same way in the same 25 backlinks and all that stuff and I did schema and you didn't I doubt ranking

SPEAKER_02
Got it got it got it, but okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I could I could see that I would I could probably see that but I think the What the front page of Google for like the competitive terms nowadays are saying like It's just like a domain authority you play nowadays on the mega keywords, right? It's it's disgusting right now I frankly find disgusting. I'm profiting.

I'm profiting off of how disgusting it is. It's it's a Wild West out there um Yeah, so it's It's tough to focus on the granular things that Google recommends that you should do and Then turn around and say see out looking the best best number one for best CBD oil You know, it's really hard to show up every day and try to do all the checkboxes that Google recommends Um, yeah, I mean is has that ever tempted you to you know, look into that for your clients for consulting For your own projects, you know go out and test out some of these go back to your black hat roots, you know Well, yeah all the time

SPEAKER_00
they the There only real moral stance to me is if James hires me and he puts his business in my hands I'm not gonna go out and do that kind of stuff to James's website But be damned if I don't buy 25 other domains to make a PBN for James and do that with all of those You know, I mean or parasite SEO what you're referring to nothing wrong with that So leverage the Leavage leverage what Google is doing not what Twitter SEO is moral police say that you should be doing

SPEAKER_01
How's that Jacky's already been attacked for that?

SPEAKER_02
I mean, I don't really care about that but um

SPEAKER_00
Everybody's talking about you say we don't care, but I mean even everyone cares about it It's like you you get it cuz here's the here's the problem I found Jackie is if James is coming to hire us and James has learned from Twitter SEO and all the influencers in SEO and everyone told him how bad black hat is and you know Google's gonna come and get him and oh it might work for a little bit, but eventually you're gonna get beat up Us guys that are like in reality and and actually doing the work that Google is showing us that we need to be doing Have to fight not only Google But now we got to fight our client in the total misinformation campaign that he's got White hat versus black hat the white hats won that war And those guys are more black hat than we are I know some people that claim they're the total white hats and those guys are ripoff artists I know someone who's charging $250 a month to monitor your map to see if he gets suspended Yeah, I mean email to say suspended when he's charging you 250 bucks a month today and he's considered

SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I mean I've also seen some of these Twitter SEOs Who claim their white hat and like some of the work they've done I've seen the audits they've done for clients It's it's like it's pathetic, but The reason why I say I don't care is because I mean I'm not yeah, I mean me and James talk about this all the time like my goal in SEO is to make money Yeah, and make money with people It's not to like follow Google's guidelines and that's like the ultimate goal for me. Nothing else matters Um, so that's why I'm saying I don't really care about what the Twitter police says But yo, you saw what happened to Jake's causal app site, right? What do you think about that? That's one reason SEO AI heist, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I honestly

SPEAKER_00
One it's dropped now right according to all of the tank Is it's dropping but the only reason is dropping is because all those moral police probably went to your goal and gave that to Google and Google's typically in their typical pattern Did something about it had he not said anything? Our website would be just fine Now I get why he did it I Get why he did it because he wanted to promote his his his tool So there's that And then to everyone that was bitching about him never once had a problem with Brian Dean skyscraper technique Which was to go out find your competitors see what content they're ranking for and create better stuff And then the only thing different that Jake added was he did it with AI? So now he's evil and horrible So that's so what's coming on stance on it if I was yeah, Jake Let's say in that website was making a lot of money. I'd probably be punching myself for for opening my big mouth But if I'm making more money selling my AI tool now, which I bet you I bet you he is Right then it was totally worth it I'd burn a site down to increase the my monthly revenue for sure

SPEAKER_02
Yeah, fuck, but I guess I guess I don't think he calculated like Losing causal as a client versus the amount of new AI subscriptions. You'll be getting from that tweet Yeah, it's a tough one I think I don't think Google would ever found it out had those

SPEAKER_00
Went in there and they reversed engineers post he showed enough Proof and documentation to allow him the reverse engineer that post and figure out that website That's the only way that Google knew what that website was in the first place So if and they probably did target it specifically is because Someone reversed engineer that post and they went in there and and complaint and showed Google Here's the one he's talking about and then Google manual action there

SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I mean, this is uh, I personally feel like this is why we can't have nice things in the SEO space And this is why people don't show anything and then the same people are complaining that we're not showing anything as well It's yeah, I don't I don't get it But anyways, I think I completely agree Brian Dean with the skyscraper technique. It's it's just done at scale with AI Had he what do you think if if Jake said we didn't stop at just posting bulk AI content we got a human writer to go in a fact check. Do you think the internet would still lose their mind? I

SPEAKER_00
I it was because of the way he positioned it. He made a click through Click bait title. We stole our competitors traffic So he positioned he gave he gave them the in to say oh look how morally horrible you are and Now we're morally justified Reverse engineering your thing and turning this in the Google and getting it smashed That's that's had he not said that we stole the traffic And if you reposition that technique that he was showing as a skyscraper with AI, he would have been totally fine

SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I agree. That's it's such a shame and I think oh god I really hate the SEO community sometimes. What are the worst? One of the worst communities I think like so toxic especially like the I feel like you're you might be the cross between There's like a huge disconnect between in-house SEOs and affiliates very much so and like I think the bridge is like agency SEOs where they kind of You know, they're like the middle person for there But I think there's a huge disconnect between affiliates and in-house SEOs.

It's really bad It's it's shake off the levels. I think so you got you affiliate guys that are out there

SPEAKER_00
Playing in a wild wild west learning things and trying to adapt and the reason you have to be able to do that And have the skills to do that is because that is your entirety of your income for the most part, right? So if you're not successful you ain't making money and you're not feeding your kids Whereas a The agency agency guys, you're not successful. We're gonna lose clients and you're gonna lose your job And then you have these enterprise guys that are out there who are working on their own They're out there who are working on you know Stupid high brand authorities and and publishing content and their article Is instantly posted and they're like look I wrote this high quality article. Look how great it is And I'm the greatest SEO forever, but I mean you just published that on fox knees.

Of course, it's gonna Do a good job, right? so and the the real problem is that That there's brand new affiliate guys that are getting their advice from these enterprise guys And thinking that what works in enterprise for fox news is supposed to work for jakes house of pain Dot com it is not gonna be that way

SPEAKER_02
No chance imagine Imagine the head of SEO at four and then they're trying to give advice on How to rank a local site like that that should never work. They're never whatever

SPEAKER_00
I know personally the head of SEO for fox news and Everything we talk about there's no damn way I work for local and he knows it And it's the same everything that I say for local. There's no damn way it's gonna work for fox news so But if he was to give out advice and not Say that make that distinction Then you could easily think that oh if the director of SEO for fox news says I need to be doing high quality content Then you're gonna go out into your high quality content Not knowing that it doesn't mean anything because google can't read

SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah Speaking of google can't read. What are your thoughts on topical authority? I know you went you got into it with uh, kore on uh, facebook, I believe that was that was I loved reading that. Thank you so much for that.

It was like Christmas came early for me. Um It cost me a thousand bucks

SPEAKER_00
Did it why? He kicked me out of the he kicked me out of the facebook group and he kicked me out of the course And never refunded my money. So I he took my money and then kicked me out of removed all access to the course Did you charge back? What was that? Oh, okay? No at that point. I was just I was done with it I don't want to get that guy anymore audience than he already had

SPEAKER_02
He's doing well for himself. Um, yeah So what do you think of the idea of topical authority ignoring kore?

SPEAKER_00
Uh

SPEAKER_02
First hypes Good

SPEAKER_00
His course, I don't know if you guys a little bit more of the back stories 80 89 videos uh, 44 of them kind of got into his His concept and then the other 44 just repeated the first 44. So uh, and then his last His last video actually I mean his last video was the laziest one and that's when you learned everything So it's not to say that kore didn't give out some good information, but I mean you could have consolidated that entire thing into one video and then Matt Diggity would have done it in five minutes

SPEAKER_02
Uh and got the same okay, okay, okay. Okay. Got it got it. I see I see you worried your issues

SPEAKER_00
Yeah, diggity did do a topical a topical maps course and and so the the the way that kore is teaching it Is if you were an affiliate for a kindle You need to do um Um blog post about every kind of e-reader out there and then you need to do an article Because you're Affiliate for books now you got to do an article about every type of genre of book that's out there And then you need to do work in the authors right Just so you can promote a kindle And his his justification is I'm gonna have all of these rankings and I'm gonna get all of this traffic And it's gonna be my website's gonna be all about books But you can do all that work and you can convert probably 0.5 of that traffic to actually build a kindle To to buy that kindle You're not gonna convert that traffic into buying a kindle as an affiliate. So you've wasted all of this time so if you scale that down a little bit And you have a kindle site And then you want to talk about e-readers and compare the e-readers and get your readers to do a kindle That's the topical authority that I think google is looking for In when I came up we used to call those sniper sites And if you ever heard of those google sniper sites The original concept behind that was you build a five ten page website Your home page was about the product that you're affiliating and then your other pages Your supporting pages were comparing them to the competition So you rank for the competition's term and then show why your product is better And that those little sniper sites were making people an asterisk money those came out before the The niche site and the authority site And those were doing really good For the longest time until just popularity swing over to these authority niche sites for affiliate So Right, so all right, so Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah, so I I like the topical authority idea but I dislike the people teaching that James needs to have this 10,000 page website All about cookies just so he can sell cookie cutters. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever And I know a couple people that reached out to me that were actually subject to Coray's case studies And their conversion rates went down even though their traffic went up Because the traffic I mean, of course because they got like non buyer intent Exactly, right? It's like seeking out information people and having no idea how to convert footwinds anything

SPEAKER_02
Got it. Got it. I think I think his okay. Okay. I think I think I generally get it for example It's it's similar to I think he's done like a water Like the site that sells bottled water or something like that. Yeah, and if you if you rank about talk about everything under the sign about water like is Water safety drink in flint michigan like You rank number one.

That's not gonna sell any water, right? That's like your part of it, which I completely agree with but Okay, so to play the other side of it would be this will if Instead of selling water, they are a water review site Then it would actually help with in terms of like overall generating more revenue from display ads and so on and so forth You know, I think it would help in that sense, but I can see what you're saying like They're not gonna it's not gonna help a water brand sell more water, right if you're doing it for branding

SPEAKER_00
So let's let's go local. You're you're a roofing company And you talk about you have an article on Each of the materials of roofing and then flashing at roofing and then the different processes is putting roofing on those all make sense But if I have I'm doing roofing in 10 different cities and then I do um An article on the population of new york an article on the demographics of the asian community in new york an off article about the demographics of the Caucasian community in new york and then The types of food that the asian community wants to eat in new york And just building that all out for everyone in the cities that King just get done, right? So you And that's the way that kore is teaching the water site he used that in part of his course the other site he uses is visas So his the offer was Helping people get visas to travel from one place to another The supporting content that you're telling in his course to write Is all about the country So I don't know if you ever heard of the cia fact book essentially he broke down the cia fact book typically there are 500 to a thousand pages for every country And he said that's what you need the right for your website in order to rank For getting the visas because that's prototypical authority

SPEAKER_01
That's that's a lot of content. I think what cut what kind of Expands on top of authority at least in that sense in terms of major contents Is your internal linking philosophy and I've taken I guess I've taken to your I guess backlink off page philosophy around authority and relevance regarding the anchor text And the domain and I think you carry that on with on your internal links too with the anchor text being the relevancy there But I wanted to ask you On your tests as well and and your philosophy on that because I think syris shepherd semi recently did a little case study Around internal linking and he he found to think it was a variety of internal links tended to work better up to a certain point And it wasn't just all exact match for relevance and things like that Do you want to maybe run through your philosophy there and how potentially it might differ?

SPEAKER_00
yeah, his his one one test he did was the multiple anchors On a page linking out to the same page with different anchors and which one that actually google counted And I don't know how long you guys been around but rand did a thing. It's called the first instance Is his claim So if jackie links to the same page three times using three different anchors google's only going to count the first one and no one There's a lot of people that Said he was wrong Being rand and then there was a lot of people said he was right um in the um the testing that we did The the links that you have in your menus don't count. So jackie links To his page in the menu home page menu or header menu And then he links to it in the content google's going to count the link that's in the content because it knows this is the nav, right? so that Knowing that you've instantly dispelled rand's thesis which was if you had a link in your header than the link you had in your content doesn't work Cyrus changed that up and he he figured out that If jackie links to the same page three times It'll only use the anchor text From that first one to associate with that page.

It's going to read the other two, but it's only for association and ranking It's only using the anchor text for that first one And then he found out you can break that up a little bit by putting an image in the second one So jackie wants to rank for Um blue shoes his first link anchor is blue shoes and then blue suede shoes Which is also on that page his image would be a blue suede shoes and the alt text with blue suede shoes Google would count both of those So in in that it makes a lot of sense with with cyrus's analysis the other thing um, I think you're referring to that study where he was looking at ranking and then looking at internals and saying whether exact match or alter or Related searches and all that right? Thanks, and I think that um that comes probably from the penguin days when a lot of us were talking about Oh, you don't use 100 exact match keep it down to 3% Don't do that in your internals Internal linking keep it keep it low Use related searches or generic turn click here You know read more that kind of stuff And I think that is still out there and pretty prominent Now, I know diggity teaches don't use Exact match in your internal linking very much I teach the exact opposite Like keep using exact match until google stops giving you credit and then switch over So theoretically you could have 75 percent of exact match anchors on your internal links and you'd be just fine If people were doing it my way, I think cyrus's data analysis would be significantly different, but um I mean that's that's more of a popularity thing than what's actually working right now. I actually think um, I mean your camp I think

SPEAKER_02
In internal links you can go super aggressive in terms of uh Keyword stuffing that quote unquote whereas I guess you've seen everyone's seen this um if you're if it's external links If you go too aggressive, you're gonna get clapped like right away. It's pretty quick. I think yeah

SPEAKER_00
I think yeah, well that you don't necessarily have to anymore. Um, I I've the good old days and you did exact match and just blast the hell out of it. Those were awesome.

I wish they came back um, but in the internal links google every domain has a This is what the credit that you're allowed. So for example my agency site digital ear.com I can do five exact match domain or exact match anchors to a page and I'm gonna keep getting boost Number six through whatever don't do anything.

They don't increase the rankings of my pages. It's those five Every domain has a number. So once you've figured out what your number is you can um figure out You know, I'm gonna do my five exact match anchors and then if you want to do five I have related and go that way or you can just stop writing all that extra supplemental content and move on to the next thing

SPEAKER_01
How do you figure that out and and if you're gonna figure it out how How yeah, let's start there. How do you actually figure out the number or can you increase it?

SPEAKER_00
Can your domain handle more over time as your domain gets more authority and more backlinks overall Then that number will will start going up because so every if you are building let's say you build 10,000 page Website you're never gonna figure that out because you're never gonna get as many backlinks to all of those 10,000 pages If you build it slow one money page five supporting pages for example All six of those pages start getting backlinks now your authority goes up and you keep doing that over and over again You'll be able to get more trust and etc. So it kind of goes along that old school where you want to kgr Um, Doug Cunningham if you're following kgr and you're actually ranking pages consistently over and over for those super long tails You're building trust You build backlinks to those now you're building authority And then when you start doing your internal linking and stuff and actually trying to go after something hard you're gonna Generally it's going to be a lot easier for you

SPEAKER_01
You know, it's you know, it's fine. You're the second person recently to mention kgr again The other one yeah was uh, Carl roof and I swear people were like killed off kgr for how many years now suddenly this year people talking kgr again What's going on?

SPEAKER_00
it's Let me be too insulting but it's laziness. So the kgr is you're going after things that you would Generally, I mean, it's which is sexier ranking for a search term that has a thousand visitors or one that has 50 And kgr you're going after those 50s So if you're an affiliate using a i content you should be living and dying in kgr

SPEAKER_02
Um, especially if you're just starting out. Yeah, I enabled right? Yeah. Yeah. Why not? Yeah, this be all day

SPEAKER_00
Every night in kgr stuff that should be the easiest stuff for you to rank for You're And easiest to build the backlinks needed the rank. I mean, you don't need all that many you can use systems gsa search neo s o autopilot rank gear or not rank here. What's your feel?

SPEAKER_02
um Yeah, don't you feel like with these low volume keywords that eventually The likes of forbs if they're a i enabled the larger publishers They'll eventually get down there if everyone moves towards ai. Do you know what I mean? Like they'll eventually get down there

SPEAKER_00
Yeah, if you look it's kind of like you guys in the in the affiliate now. They're out there in your space Writing the best, you know the best drones articles because google said oh go ahead. It's fine

SPEAKER_02
Um, and they are and I think I've seen you seeing more and more pop up I think I feel like the threshold is moving like it's edging upwards because they're just cutting out the uh The less authoritative sites nowadays

SPEAKER_00
Well, they're cutting you out as an affiliate. They don't like you so they used you to build google ads They used you to build google ads to prove that platform to prove how it works to optimize everything in the back end And then to get you to pitch it to small businesses Once you started pitching it to small businesses Or guys like me that were doing if doing uh local agencies once you started pitching small businesses and those guys bought on Uh, and the the fortune 500 saw that your success with it They killed you and kicked you out of the google ads program And it's the same with search now you guys are going through that again. You they figured out How you figured out how to rank in what are is converting articles best of top 10 of those type of articles and now google is Rewarding forbs and ink and cnet and wired and fox for writing those articles and they get to push you out now because They know that those companies are there for ad revenue, which is coming from google display Proud predominantly right and the google premium ads partners program.

So that's how So they let fox and all those guys rank high for affiliate terms because they know that the user is going to go there and Click on one of their ads and then they can monetize You as an affiliate are only there to sell that product fox is there for traffic and ad revenue so

SPEAKER_02
The next yeah, I can see I can see your argument. Yeah. Yeah the next stage is that I'm actually turning on the product review snippet

SPEAKER_00
and basically what they do is they James you and I write an article about the best drones They scrape all of those figure out the products that we're listing and then take our content and create a review snippet

SPEAKER_01
And then well, it's already next to you. Is that yeah, you see it already. Yeah

SPEAKER_02
I think it'll be similar to um google flights, you know, and like the google hotels Search engine is going to be something like that. It'll it'll be bad for affiliates So I gotta gotta cash in and cash out as soon as possible. Yeah, I'm just here for Here for a good time here for a good time

SPEAKER_01
Um, yeah, but yeah, yes, we're going now I was gonna say with that with the kji cleanse as well Obviously, okay, you're targeting these all entitled terms by you seeing I guess more More things ranking that aren't using the main keyword in that Uh title tag on google like things like more first person stuff or I guess more clickbaity titles ranking instead of the exact match In that title if that makes sense

SPEAKER_00
It's hard to make that analysis because google is using machine learning so much to change the titles Um, and then also like in rehab they use h1 tags for the title listings inside of the search results They don't use the title tag So to connect those two together, it's a little bit harder to do that I know that they're making it harder for us to write clickbaity titles ourselves And then having them show up Yeah, they are There they are So it's I mean it's it would be easy to say oh, yeah, that's what they're doing because the machine learning changed it But unless you actually go in there and do analysis on a lot of data And pull the real title tags and then compare them to the SERPs and then try to make that association That would that's a that's a big data task. So and I don't have patience to do that

SPEAKER_01
Are you optimizing for google google discover or anything like that?

SPEAKER_00
Yeah, no, we're we're still trying to I'm still trying to crack that in that like what is what is what Trigger is getting you in there and everyone that I know of that says that they get a lot of discover traffic The main things I say is write a clickbaity title and then have the proper image I'm like there's gotta be something more than that. You know what I mean? So Um, so I still I still haven't cracked the whole this google discover net

SPEAKER_02
Well, I'm sure I'm sure one of us will figure it out one day. I well, I think the algo is it's going to be Similar same direction of how like these short form video content is showed so it's like depends on ctr Time on page so on and so forth. Yeah. Yeah, we'll see we'll see or well listen. Hey, you have it right? Yeah, exactly use of behavior.

Yeah Um, but yeah, I think we got to be mindful of the time Uh, Clint thanks for coming on today. Uh, where do you want to send people your twitter your website?

SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah, you can hang out with me on twitter and watch me make fun of people. Um, so Clint.a.na butler Skype if you want to reach out to me directly or you can find me on twitter

SPEAKER_02
Cool. Thank you so much for coming on today. It was fun chatting man.

Yeah, thanks for inviting me. Cheers