SPEAKER_00
All right, Emerson Sparts, we're here. We're having a conversation. I reached out to you a few days ago.

You were like gracious enough to give us your time. You're a criminally under followed, not well enough known person for how much you know about where the world is going, in my opinion. So I wanted to give you a platform to speak.

And, you know, a little bit about Emerson, he started MuggleNet when he was 13, the number one Harry Potter community and social network. He started DOS, which was a Buzzfeed competitor that was really, really big and is really big. Your Twitter bio says, step one, become the world's fastest learner.

Step two, learn everything. Step three, be an impact billionaire. What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01
Yeah. So first of all, thank you for that very kind introduction. Basically, I find it fascinating that people, people like they try to accumulate a specific skill and they're like, I'm going to develop this skill.

I'm going to get good at like making a website. So I'm going to get good at this programming language or this, you know, speaking Spanish, whatever. And they don't go one meta level up, which is like, how do you become the best at learning all the skills and like learning how to learn basically? Like why not treat learning itself? Like if you want to be the world's fastest learner, how would you do it? And it's hardly anybody actually really thinks that way.

And like, if you were an Olympic athlete, but you were instead of trying to become the best, you know, skier in the world, you want to be the best learner, like how would you go about doing that? And so I've just taken that idea more seriously than anybody that I'm aware of. And I, and every single day I spend some routine like one to three hours, like actively just trying to get better at learning. So like conducting experiments and seeing what tactics and what techniques tend to like make me just learn faster.

And I've just like found a bunch of things that make me, I can read much faster. I used to be able to, I can retain the much higher percentage of what I learned. And I can measure it by seeing how long it takes me to do something like, for example, how long would it take me to pass the bar starting from scratch? How long would it take me to pass the USM leaves? Like the doctors bar equivalent.

And so basically the idea is like just like deep mine, the AI company, their slogan is like first solve intelligence, then sell everything else. It's basically a personal version of that, which is like first solve intelligence, like, because if I zoom out for a second, like I want to become the world's wisest man. I don't know what that means either, but it's always been inspirational to me.

The idea of like being the smartest person in the world, but a more mature version of it, right? So how would you, if you actually wanted to do that, how would you go about doing that? And so, so I think about these things a lot. And the reason why I want to do it the first place, because I want to have the largest impact on the world possible. So to do that, though, I need to first figure out where the biggest intervention points are, where I can have the largest, most positive impact on the world.

That's the really quick zoomed out version of it.

SPEAKER_00
Okay. So I get, first of all, I love that you want to be the world's wisest man. I feel like that's a audacious goal.

And I also like that you put it on Twitter as a public goal. And I think more of us should do that. But like, why go wide instead of going really deep? Why study everything when you could just be the world's smartest AI person or the world's smartest crypto person and the world's smartest product designer? Why are you thinking about, you know, going diverse?

SPEAKER_01
Because I like it. It's fun. I'm following my curiosity.

Basically, like five years ago, I exited my business and I had a like tough divorce. And it forced me to like, kind of step back and reevaluate my life. And I ended up just moving to San Francisco with my two brothers.

And then we did that for like a year. And then I had this really powerful DMT trip, because I was about to jump back into the grind and like get back into like making money. And then I had this feeling of like, why am I doing this? What is the point? I already have enough money.

I'm financially stable. I don't need more. I'd like more.

I might, my life plan earlier on was like, I want to be a billionaire. And then I want to be like Bill Gates, where I give it all away and I have the biggest impact. But I realized, okay, what am I doing? So we ended up just like getting all our shit, throwing it in the backpacks and just traveling the world.

Just what we've been doing for the past five years. And I'm just interested in everything. I'm just curious about everything.

I want to know how everything works. And I find that the more that I read right now, I average reading about two books a day equivalent of content. And the more that I read, the more curious I am about how the world works.

The more questions are the more things I find interesting, the more that I read. So part of it is just that it's fun. Part of it's just that I like doing it.

It makes me feel fulfilled and happy. And the more that I read, the more beauty I'm able to appreciate in the world. So part of it's like an intrinsic goal, as I just like to learn.

And I like to learn about everything. That's part of the answer. And then part of the answer too is that my mental models, like I tried to like 80, 20, basically everything.

So I can get mental models that I can cross by across disciplines, so that I can adopt new technologies faster. An example, this is crypto. Crypto is like the dream, like industry, if you're a polymath, because almost everybody, they hear about crypto and they think of like one possible, they hear one possible explanation for the technology and how it works and what problems it solves.

And they immediately arrive at a conclusion about it. And it's like, you know, this is this is just like the next S curve built on top of a giant stack of technologies that increase human coordination. And it's like people who said back in the 90s that like, Oh, the internet will only ever be used by people for this one use case.

And then they just quickly wrote it off. So to like really get crypto, you need to have a bunch of mental models about like technology and game theory and crypto economics and so on. And so that's an example of an industry that like, I was able to like recognize the value of earlier, but only because I was so interested in so many different things.

If you're reading two books a day, which I think

SPEAKER_00
is fascinating, and I want to get into how you read two books a day. How do you think about a framework for what type of content you want to ingest? I can explain it, but it's not one of

SPEAKER_01
those things I can actually explain in enough time to make it interesting and useful to anybody listening to this podcast. I do have like a list of hacks though and tactics that I think are super high leverage that I could share about how to learn faster. The short answer is that I basically use boredom as a compass.

And when I'm bored with something that is a indicator that whatever I'm reading doesn't seem as likely to be useful or important. But, but I really can't actually summarize it. It's, it's, there's a fairly complex hierarchy decision tradeoffs that I make.

SPEAKER_00
So I have a new thing where basically if someone I respect says a book, like just says a book, I just put it in a notes file and then I buy the book. So my reading list is basically, it could be all over. It could be psychology, it could be economics, it could be product design, but it's basically follow interesting people.

And of course my friends too, if they just say a book, just write it down and buy it. What's your take on books versus blogs versus podcasts versus

SPEAKER_01
Twitter versus TikTok? I think they all have their place. I think books, books have been the best for me overall because there's a ton of switching costs with articles. Like it's hard to find articles to read.

You spend a lot of time looking for the next article to read and not nearly as much time actually reading articles. There's also a lot of friction in having to find articles to read, although I use read wise. So I just keep a bunch of articles and I still get a lot of value from I basically, the articles is being generally better for timely information.

Like I'm trying to say, I spent a lot of time thinking about AI and a lot of time thinking about web three. And so obviously articles are better for that kind of content, but for content that has a longer shelf life, basically somebody spends their entire life's work studying something and they'll spend years trying to like find the perfect way to explain what it is they spent their entire life learning. And in five hours, you can get a time lapse of their entire life's work.

Oftentimes you can get that information from articles, but there's a lot of like random friction and transaction costs and going to find all those articles. YouTube is good for like, if you need visual information, most YouTube is like lower information density than like, because there's a lot of visual information on the screen that's not very useful. But it can be, for example, if you're trying to learn physics, like having a bunch of learning physics by watching like three blue and brown videos is just a better way to do it than other channels because he like visually shows you what's happening.

So you can get better intuition, you get a better years level understanding about it. So I think YouTube is good if you need the visual information to learn the thing. TikTok, I have not been able to figure out how to use TikTok profitably.

I think podcasts are useful for like, if something is brand new, there's no book written about it yet. Right. So like for crypto, for example, the best way to say it on top of crypto is through crypto Twitter and through podcasts, where you get to hear like two of the smartest people in the industry talking about some new cutting edge thing.

SPEAKER_00
And are you taking notes when you're consuming content? When you're listening to podcasts, are you like, do you have a notebook open? Walk us through how you get the most out of your content.

SPEAKER_01
Yeah. So the way I think about it, first of all, is like, there's basically three levels to like, super learning level one is basically increasing your speed. That's the lowest hanging for everything most people can do because it's actually really, really easy.

Most people are not reading nearly as fast as they could. It doesn't take that much work. And the second level is increasing how much you comprehend.

This isn't retention. This is just comprehending. Even like, for example, in this podcast, like the people listening to this right now, and they're spacing in and out.

And I measure this quite a bit. And the average person is actually only listening to about 10% of all of the actual sentences in a given podcast or book that they're reading. 10%. That's a staggeringly low percentage of comprehension. It doesn't feel that way though, because your brain, just like when you, when you see your vision, like you look from left to right, and people think that they're looking at the whole thing, but actually there's things called saccades where you basically take a mental snapshot there, take a snapshot there, and you guess what's in the middle.

The same thing happens with reading where you pick up like a few words here and there and use kind of guess what the people were saying on the podcast or the book. But anyway, basically, so level one is increasing your speed, level two is increasing your comprehension. The best way to do that by far is I just like, you can just take out pen and make a little check mark every time you notice your attention wavering, or I keep a little clicker in my hand.

And I just like, whenever I notice my attention wavering a little bit, like every time I notice, I mean, basically cross-playing ideas from various contemplative practices, like mindfulness meditation and so on. So you keep a meditation object in your hand, like it could be a pen, it could be like, whatever. And every time you notice that thing, you're like, oh, I'm supposed to be paying attention.

Right? Why do I have this weird thing in my hand? Oh yeah, click, so you pay attention, right? So I do a lot of things like that. I get about 15 to 20,000 clicks a day in to make sure that every single sentence that I'm hearing, I'm processing the words aren't going, bouncing off my ear, right? They're going into my ear and into my brain. So that's like step two, level two, and level three is retention.

Like how do you actually remember this stuff later? That step though is actually for most people, not even important, because the most useful thing is like just read faster and make sure you're actually understanding what it is that you're reading. But for retention, yeah, I have like a bunch of different note systems. So I take a lot of voice notes and listen to those voice notes, I use flashcards, there's a bunch of stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you're kind of making me rethink how I consume content. Like I don't really take that many notes when I'm listening or reading content. Like I have a couple of different iOS note files that I'll just kind of put in, hey, this is interesting or this is interesting, but it doesn't, it's not as structured as what it could be.

And yours like yours feels structured. So it sounds like you've got this really good framework and system for keeping you focused. Step one, like how do you keep focus? And then step two is like, how do you jam that stuff up into your brain as much as possible and remember, and I think that 99% of us don't have systems for,

SPEAKER_01
for that second piece, especially the most useful thing if there's like one single thing that like anyone listening, let's just take away is like just just actually listen to podcasts faster, just increase your speed by like 0.25x. You should be able to listen to like some podcasts at 3x. And it seems crazy.

Seems like chipmunks at first, but like your brain is absolutely, if you're listening to podcasts like this, like you're capable of listening to some podcasts at 3x, you're probably listening to this one right now at some routine, like one to 1.5x. And it's just way too slow. It's sort of like progressive loading in weightlifting.

Like the only way to build muscle is to like lift things that are too heavy for your muscles to lift. And then your muscles are up regular like, Hey guys, we got to build more muscle so that tomorrow when this guy is going to lift heavy things, like we're going to be able to lift more things. Like you have to do the same thing with reading faster.

So just increment it up by 0.25x. Like do it like until you get to some podcasts at 3x and then you'll probably slow some of it down to 2x to 2.5x, but that's okay.

Like most people can easily double their reading speed. If you're at

SPEAKER_00
this level already. So I've tried like the two 2x. I never even thought about 3x.

And yeah, I've gotten to like chipmunk level and I'm kind of like, it doesn't feel enjoyable to me to listen to something at 2x. For me podcasting, like or listening to podcasts, like is like something I really look forward to. It's like having like your morning coffee outside and the sun's hitting your face.

Like it's something that like, you know, I'm really looking forward to. But I hear you, if your goal is to like be the most well read, be the smartest person on the planet or, you know, or just get ahead of other people really, I think like consuming information quicker is better.

SPEAKER_01
Period. Right. So if you could have just as much fun, but we twice as fast, then obviously you'd prefer to do that. Right. And the thing is, people are basically lifting, they're going to the gym, they're lifting one pound dumbbells. And that's what like, if you listen to a podcast at like 1x or 1.

5x, it's like a one pound dumbbell. It's not make it's like, it's easy to do. But if with just a little bit of like upping your load a bit, like you can get to point where you're lifting like, you know, 10 pound dumbbells, and it feels just as easy as it did with the one pound dumbbells before.

Most people don't use that metaphor of the progressive overloading from weightlifting applied to reading. And I hear you on that, like it's enjoyable for me too. It's actually like really not enjoyable to listen to things slowly now.

It actually feels painful. It feels like everything

SPEAKER_00
is happening in slow motion. Yeah. What's on your mind these days? You know, you started in the community space, you moved into like viral news. I'm seeing tweets about web3 and AI now.

SPEAKER_01
What's exciting to you and what's on your mind? A couple things. So I mostly look for, so I have made some different life design choices where like, instead of just starting a normal business and getting back in the grind and raising venture capital and trying to get to a, you know, a billion dollar exit, I know just look for intervention points where I can like, I can just, I can, I can, with the equivalent of like lifting my pinky, I can find some sort of like thousand X leverageable. And so I basically look for those kinds of things.

So for example, in the early days of COVID, I was, I was obsessed with COVID back in December of 2019, because I'd studied previously enough epidemiology to be pretty freaked out. And I was like, okay, about one in four people seem to be dying from this thing. And it's not going to be contained in China.

It's going to spread on the entire world. So I mean, it's possible that one in four people are going to die from this thing. It's possible that like literally hundreds of millions or billions of people are going to die.

That's a really big deal. And people aren't taking it nearly seriously enough. And so how can I help with that? So I went full time for a few months.

And I found there was this one best practice from prior pandemics called social distancing, of course, not a surprising thing now. But I was like, okay, that's like probably a good idea. We should be doing that people back then weren't doing that.

And I was like, if I can even bring that mean forward in time by like a week or two, I could potentially save millions of lives. And so because in my past life, I was known, you know, like every year the community guy, everyone's a guy for something, right? Like I was the virality guy, right? I was probably one of the 100 best people in the world for a while at making content viral online. And so I was able to take all that and I made in two hours of work, I made a viral Facebook photo frame is like a circle around your head this at stay home, save lives, which if you're on Facebook, you would have seen it because hundreds of millions of people used it.

And it was the most viral photo frame of all time. And so, you know, it's possible that that had an impact in saving thousands of lives. And so I look for those kinds of things where I can spend like a few hours, maybe a few days working on something and have a big impact.

And usually it's something I just do quietly without any fanfare. And the specific area that I'm mostly looking at right now is the main areas I've been interested in the past five years have been basically web three and AI. And ever since I said GPT two years ago, I got the hairs on my arm stood up.

And I literally was like tearing up because I was able to appreciate the achievement that it was all the credit the prior criticisms of AI were all about how narrow was and those were completely fair criticisms until the deep learning revolution. And in the past 10 years, the game has changed completely. And most people just weren't updating their models of how much more intelligent these models were.

And so I've been pretty like both excited and terrified by AI for the past five years. And specifically because it's similar to COVID COVID back in 2020, right? Like if you if you're like literate and looking at exponential curves, you're like, okay, like, this is not good. And AI is kind of on that same trajectory.

So, so I spend a lot of time staying on top of AI, but also I founded an organization called nonlinear just nonlinear.org. And basically, we're focused on reducing existential risk from AI. What does that mean? Well, it means that this might sound crazy.

But like, I think some people need to say it is that there's a meaningful chance that we are going to make AI so powerful that we will lose control of it. And if we lose control of it, there's all kinds of bad things that can happen, including us all dying. And there just aren't that many people that are working on this problem right now.

At the time, there was like maybe 100 people full time, like trying to figure out how to align, you know, AI with our values so that we don't accidentally create a runaway exponential intelligence explosion that we can't control. And now there's maybe 250 people. And so basically, I founded an accelerator that's basically just helping to launch charities and startups that are focused on making sure AI is safe, not the kind of like safe in terms of like, you know, the AI saying rude things or mean things, but like safe in terms of making sure that it doesn't accidentally cause

SPEAKER_00
lots of real serious harm. Yeah, how, how does that actually happen? Like, how do we move from, you know, chat GPT where I'm asking it for my 10 favorite, you know, Thai recipes you recommend today to like AI overlords starting to kill people? Like how do we, how do we get from,

SPEAKER_01
like how does it actually happen? Okay, so this is like my one single content rec for anybody who's interested in AI and like trying to get a zoomed out view of how this might unfold. Go to wapeby.com and read the article on the artificial, I think it's called the artificial intelligence explosion.

It's like the single best written article to explain this to get a more zoomed out view because almost everybody has this very narrow view. Almost everybody's looking at just like COVID in 2020. They look at like the point and not the slope.

So they're like, well, it's not, there's, there's only a thousand cases or there's only 10,000 cases. And it's like, okay, but look at the slope. And as long as that slope continues, the AI is already passing the Turing test millions of times per day, millions of times per day, people are talking to AI and they don't even know it.

And that went from like the number of like Turing tests being passed per day has gone from like, maybe it was millions to like, now it's actually in the like billions of instances per day that the Turing test has successfully passed. Like you're, you're convinced you think you're talking to a human, but you're actually talking to a computer. It's smart enough to be able to trick you into thinking that you're talking to an actual human.

Five years from now, 99.9999% of all content will be created by AI. And like five years ago, that would have been completely unthinkable.

Like the idea that like almost all content would be created by artificial intelligence would have been the most sci-fi shit. And I would have seen like the most tinfoil hat, lunatic, lock them up, like get them in a pad room. But like that now that doesn't seem crazy, you know, I'm not the only person who's saying things like that now.

And that's just with content. Now imagine all the other things like most people's jobs are like incredibly easy to automate. If you're like a white collar worker and you just like have a pretty simple flow chart, like, you know, the, the RPA industry, robotic process automation.

Yeah. Yeah. So that industry using a really primitive AI, it could like automate most people's jobs. Most people just like they work in a call center, they've got a fairly simple like flow chart for what they do.

And it's like not that hard to automate it. And AI is getting smart so fast that like, yeah, a large percentage of those jobs are going to be automated soon. And yeah, it's hard to say what happens next because there is no like historical, I, I've read a lot of history, like a lot of history.

And like, it's really hard to point to any given technology we ever created and like try to draw parallels from like, Oh, well, you know, the cotton gen like reduce the cost to produce cotton. And therefore we can somehow extrapolate AI from

SPEAKER_00
that. It's hard. Okay. I have a few thoughts. So on the point of like 99% of content will be created by AI in five years, I agree with you.

I also think that we would never believe that 99.9% of content would be curated by AI's, which is the current state that we're in. Like we go on TikTok, we go on Instagram, we go on Twitter, and it's an algorithm that's feeding us the content versus how we used to consume content, which was you went to a, you know, bodega, you went to a store, you bought in New York times.

And there was an editor and the editor said, okay, this is the front page story. This is, you know, gonna be in the front and the business section. This goes here, this goes there.

And then even in the early days in social networking, it was sorted by most recently, you know, it was like, you followed a bunch of people, you had friends on Facebook, you went to a website or app, and then it just reversed chronologically, right? It would show like latest content. Then we moved to the, you know, algorithms, robots essentially serving you the content. So I agree with that.

How do we move from chat GBT to like the world is ending with our AI overlords? Like to me, if I had to guess, and this is like super grim, but, you know, it's the merging of like those robots that you see like the dog robot, Boston robotics, I think the company is that like creates these hardware devices mixed with like drones, mixed with artificial intelligence that is able to basically make decisions, mixed with like weapons, you know, seems like that's a

SPEAKER_01
bad place to be. Yeah, have you seen the slaughterbots video? I haven't. Tell me about it.

Just look it up. It's just like a really, really well done viral video. Some of like an organization showing how like bad would be if we gave the kill switch to, uh, to the robots.

Uh, although it's interesting because like the kill switch, the idea that we'd let, you know, robots make the kill decision instead of humans, that happens all the time automatically. There's tons of weapons systems you already have that like, there's no human that decides like the, the robots decide for us. Like they shoot down the missile before we would have time to react, you know? So we've already given up the like kill switch to the machines.

But yeah, I agree. So here's some, some, that's more as I used to think about AI. So first is that AI was on a linear trajectory.

Like we were making roughly linear progress, um, from like the 1960s until about 2000. And then it went like, uh, or 2012 brother. And that was like the start of the deep learning revolution.

So basically about 50 years, linear progress, straight line, then it went exponential starting with deep learning and deep learning for those you don't know is, is a completely different paradigm where basically we just were like, Hey, read the whole internet and then like make dope shit. And that's super creative and Intel, anybody who says like AI is not creative or the AI is not, you know, not intelligent now, I don't understand how you can defend that anymore. Yon like you from open AI just said yesterday that like, you know, they train the models in English and the models just like automatically know how to do everything in every other language in their system.

I mean, like, come on, like, how do you think of that as just like a, like a somehow empty box that's parroting things? Anyway, um, so basically it was linear from like 1960 to like 2012, then it was exponential 2012 till today. And now it's going double exponential. That's a big deal because now it's exponential.

It's there's an exponent on top of the X one. So before we only had all the data that had been accumulated in the past, right? Like they can read Wikipedia and then that's the data that we train the AI is on, but now the elements themselves are creating training data that they can use to self-improve. So that's a really, really big deal that when they can use their own outputs as training data.

Um, all right. So the second mental model I use is to think of AI first is like a tool that we use. It's really narrow.

It can only do like a really narrow subset of things. Then it goes from a tool to assistant. It can do a lot more things now, right? It's still not as good as we are, but it's like your assistant, you know, they can still do lots of things.

They're just not quite, you know, at your level of skill at operating the world, right? And then it becomes like your peer. So that's level three. So tool assistant peer where it's like as good as you are, but at different things than you are, right? Like I sit next to developers better at coding than I am.

And then level four is that it becomes your boss. Um, and this is like Uber, right? So, and it tells you what to do. So Uber, for example, like you drive for Uber, you have an AI boss right now.

Uh, like there's an AI that tells you where to go. Like drive over here, pick up this guy, drop over here. Like that's what your boss does, right? So tool, you know, assistant, uh, you know, peer boss.

So in every domain, like AI starts off as a tool and then it goes up through the four levels. Um, and so that's the thing to keep an eye on is like in your industry, if AI started for the tool right now, eventually it'll become assistant, then it'll become peer, then it'll become a boss. And like, you can see this happening in like industry, if you're industry, we're like, you know, AI is quickly moving up through the ranking.

And so with that mental model, I find that I, I'm able to like better predict what the next step will be. People always say, they always assume that whatever phase it's in in their industry, like it's a tool, it's an assistant, whatever it's like, they assume it's fixed there and it's going to stay there forever. Um, and they just don't realize the pace of progress in AI and how unlikely it is that the AI is going to stay contained as a tool or as an assistant.

Like, you know, you use barely, right? I use barely too. Now it's like this assistant that we have that's like, it's narrow, but it's not nearly as narrow as it was before, right? It can, it can handle a much wider range of tasks. Um, then like AI tools used to be able to just a few years ago.

SPEAKER_00
What, uh, what domains do you think AI becomes a boss first?

SPEAKER_01
Who would have predicted, for example, like five years ago, who would have said that like, Oh, it'll be the artists. It'll be the ones that are actually the most like anti, you know, AI, like everyone thought it was me, the blue collar, uh, you know, workers, everyone thought it was like the truck drivers that were going to be losing their jobs first, right? And now it's all the white collar, uh, like workers that are the most afraid of AI and justifiably so, right? And so it's, I, so it's really hard to say, um, in that domain, but I do think it's really interesting though, like when you think about just how much has changed just in the past few years, like, like making predictions really, really, really hard to do now. Like who saw that coming?

SPEAKER_00
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I remember for, it was for years that we kept hearing about the truck drivers. Like I feel like every person knew there's 14 million truck drivers in the United States.

It's the second, you know, second busiest job in the United States or whatever. What are they going to do when there's going to be self-driving trucks? And then there was like doomsday article after doomsday article about how once the truckers are out of work, then they're going to be really upset. That was like the narrative.

Yeah. So I think artists were the last people for sure. I think, um, I'll take a stab at answering my own question.

So areas where AI becomes the boss is areas that are repeatable, that rely on systems and data to fulfill their job, and that there's very, very little room for like gray area. So in art, like, I don't think art will ever be bought your boss. The AI won't be your boss because there's a certain level of subjectivity associated with every art piece.

And there's a personal story, like go to a popular art fair or an art fair or a museum or anything. And the first thing the gallerist or the curator will start talking about is, let me tell you the story of, you know, this particular artist and how they came to this particular painting and why they use the style and how they grew up in the Bronx and just the whole story, right? You're buying into the story. And I think that subjectivity is what drives a lot of art.

However, in some areas, it's a bit more objective. There's less gray area, creativity is less. And I think in those areas, bosses become more likely to be AI.

SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I think that's probably right. I think what's really interesting is like, basically, there's there's sacred cows everywhere when it comes to art. Like, for example, I was, um, doing AI music, uh, like four years ago.

And the biggest, uh, like EDM ghost producing website, which, which is they were responsible for like a large percentage of all EDM tracks. And, um, they were selling secretly a third of all their tracks were AI generated. And, uh, they weren't telling anybody that because they knew that like a lot of artists wouldn't like that.

Um, because people believed strongly back then that like, you know, AI can't make music. And it would seem like it was a violation of the sacred in order for an AI to make music. But they knew with data that like the AI couldn't make music.

Uh, and I think that that's, I think there's like the silent takeover that's happening with AI right now where like the number of domains where like AI can, can do things that were thought to be impossible and it'll be quiet and behind the scenes because people don't necessarily want to openly be violating the sacred. Uh, in that way is going to continue to grow exponentially. And, um, man, just the number of confident declarations I heard in the past five years, since I've been like really into AI from people saying like AI will never be able to make X insert XYZ art form.

Right. And like how just in a matter of months, now those same people now are like still moving the goalpost to like, well, I mean, okay, sure it can make like AI art, but it can't make it like better than the best humans. It can only make art that's better than like, you know, most humans and, and like doing totally unblinkingly, like unflinchingly, not embarrassed at all to like have moved the goalpost from like, eh, I won't be able to make human level art to like, there's still some artists who make some art better than, you know, AI, you know, um, I don't think it's just really interesting that giant, the power transfer that happened where like, so before all that, there was so much human creative energy that was like, storing people's minds because you had to, to build products.

You had to know how to code. Um, and there was like this really long technical tree of like milestones you had to achieve to like go from like, I've got a good idea to I can actually manifest it in the world. And that chain just went from like a thousand steps down to like 300, you know, uh, like overnight.

And that's fucking awesome. Like it's just such an exciting time to be alive where like, you can just go from an idea to like seeing it in the world without having to have years of experience in like, in development. And there's like this giant power transfer where like, like who would have thought that like it would be the shape rotators who basically created like technology that's so powerful that the word cells can rule.

Right. The fact that like, you can just like, you can, you can enter an incantation into some magic box and like beautiful art like comes out at the end of it. And like the idea that you can create like, man, the amount of leverage now is like, if you're, if you have a good idea, like you can create the equivalent of like, you know, a hundred person company by yourself.

You know, there was some like random, like just a handful of like no code tools and, uh, some AI. And so that's another reason why I like reading about lots of different things. So for example, like when it comes to prompt engineering, like I happen to have like a fairly large library of like, there's models I can use to like come up with like

SPEAKER_00
interesting prompt ideas because of reading more widely. A lot of people ask me, Greg, how do you build products that foster community? Well, I've got good news. That's exactly what Lay Checkout does.

My company, we partner with the largest brands in the world and fast-paced startups to design products that resonate with your community. We add a couple of interesting clients every single year. So if you're interested and that sounds like you email front desk at laycheckout.

studio with what you're working on, what you need help with, and don't forget to mention the where it happens pod. Thank you. You hit up upon a really smart point, which is AI plus no code helps you create products in just a lot faster way than you could five years ago.

And I think to add to that, it also allows you to market your product 10, 100 times faster. I came across a product recently called synthsynthesia.ai and it's brilliant.

Basically, pictured chat GPT, like a chat box and you like, you know, input some plain text and in like a few minutes, you get a video of an AI person. I mean, it doesn't look like an AI person. It just looks like a person speaking exactly what you said.

So imagine like how you can use that. Well, one, you can use that. Let's say you have an idea for a landing page, a company you want to create, you want to test it.

You can go and create like a video that, you know, they call it video sales letter and marketing BSL. You can create a video sales letter of someone like pitching your product on the landing page in the language. Maybe you're only focusing on people who, you know, speak keeper, in Israel, right? And you don't speak Hebrew.

And you can actually put it in English. It outputs it in Hebrew and you can even pick like a, you know, potentially someone who looks Israeli or from that region so that people connect more with that content versus the alternative. You'd have to like go to fly to Israel, find someone, hire them, rent space from a place, sit there with a director, record it.

Like it's way more time consuming, way more expensive. Now you can test it just like

SPEAKER_01
that. Yeah, it's magic. Like it's absolutely magic.

Like I don't know how anybody doesn't look at this technology be like, Oh, that's literal magic. Like magic is real. It turns out that that it was real all along.

It just needed enough parameters and stacks. I think it's also interesting like how weird it's going to get like soon. Like in a world where all the influencers are, you know, AI, they're not human anymore or like a large percentage of them rather are AI influencers, large percentage of all relationships online become with AI's because the AI can be tailored.

Like we're basically, okay, so if you think maybe like, you could, one way to explain the internet is like internet 1.0 changed the world by bringing distribution costs to zero. Like you could argue that was the single most important thing that the internet did was it brought distribution costs to zero.

And you could argue the single most important thing that AI does is makes content creation costs zero. So if you have a world where like content is like, it costs zero dollars to distribute and it costs zero dollars to create all the content is AI generated because it's free energy. Right. So what happens in a world where like all the only fans models are AI, like a large percentage of people who are on only fans right now are like, you know, you pay to like talk to a dude who's pretending to be a girl, right? That's already like humans that are doing that. Um, but just imagine a world where like most of the only fans are AI generated, most Instagram influencers are AI generated, most Twitch streamers are AI generated, most content you consume is made by AI and like everything is endless scroll everything.

Right. TikTok is like a glimpse into the future of this, right? Like TikTok, you know, there's an algorithm that like decides on everything that you consume and it's like a magic box of you don't understand how it works at all, but you feed it data and then it feeds you whatever it is that you want to wire head. I think the next five years are going to be more like more than happen in the next five years than like happened in the last like, you know,

SPEAKER_00
25 years where it gets super weird is when you're consuming content and you're not sure if it's a real human being or an AI generated, like people listening to this might look at you or look at me and say like Emerson is Emerson sparts. That doesn't sound like a real name. That's he's, he's AI.

Greg Eisenberg. No way. No way. Like that doesn't sound like Greg, you know, maybe it's an AI version. And then that's where it gets really weird because, you know, there's a ethical question, which is how are the social networks, how are the content media platforms disclosing who is AI versus who's human? Yeah, there were going to have so many like interesting,

SPEAKER_01
philosophy of identity, like experiments that are being run every single day. And like, what is it, what does it mean to be human? Like an example of this is I was just getting into it. So I have a, I know somebody who's basically, they're basically planning on doing like mass influencer, basically see their plan and just creating like a whole lot of fake people and helping a bunch of like lonely guys like have a girlfriend.

And there's a lot of like ethical questions around like, do you need to disclose that they're not and like, you know, and like, what if it means that they won't actually, they could be, they're lonely right now, but they wouldn't be lonely. But if you tell them that it's an AI, not a real girl, then they will be lonely again, because they won't like talking to the fake girl. And, you know, and then there's like consequentialist versus utilitarian perspective on these things.

And like, man, it's going to get weird. I think blockchain law should be useful here is you can cryptographically sign, you know, content to verify that it was in fact created by the person who says it was created by, I think that's going to be absolutely critical. Because how do we have any consensus reality anymore? If like, because I think there's also like right now, you know, we have consensus reality on like how the world works, but it's getting weirder, right? It used to be that we had consensus reality because we all read the same newspapers and we watch the same handful of news stations.

But when you go in TikTok, it doesn't use social graph anymore. It's an interest graph based on whatever you've swiped on. So like your tick tick is totally from my tick talk and so on.

And so like, we're not watching the same videos anymore. And that's kind of like a weird thought, right? Like what happens in a world where like tick, tick, talk and steroids, like instead of reading the same book, everyone reads this best selling book comes out, like everyone's reading an endless scroll of articles every day. Everyone's watching endless scroll of videos every day that are all perfectly tailored to you.

Like, how do we know what to talk about together anymore? Like, how do we agree on what is true and how the world works? If everyone's like consuming their own endless scroll of content that was like algorithmically generated to be exactly perfectly for you. Like right now, you know, you go to TikTok and you're still seeing videos that are made by other creators. And like the same viral videos will be seen by a lot of people, right? What happens when the AI is generating these videos and each video is like tailored to be exactly for what you wanted to watch.

Now we don't have that shared reference anymore because we've all watched different videos. What does that mean for like,

SPEAKER_00
that's just posed a lot of interesting questions. Well, I think what it means is culture suffers. Culture suffers number one, and then loneliness increases.

Number two, culture suffers because cultures like it is being able to reference something and bond about it and have a shared experience about some piece of content or shared experience, you know, shared experience. And when everyone is consuming different things, if everyone's listening to different songs, essentially, how do we go to concerts? Like the concerts are concerts of one, right? Because it needs to be for me. Actually, right before this call, I was watching this like YouTube live stream of Weezer, band from the 90s, rock band from the 90s performing at outside lands, and which is a music festival in San Francisco.

And you can just like, like I just saw the camera panning at all the different, all the different people in the crowd and you just see them mouthing the words, you know, like mouthing the words to the song, you know, say it ain't so, let's say, which is one of their hit songs. When everyone is saying a different version of say it ain't so, then where is the culture? And then how do we bond as like society? Yeah, that's gonna be one of the

SPEAKER_01
big questions because I see increasingly like the metaverse is already here. We'll see what it does. Like I think we're already, I think we're already mid-singularity right now.

And I think the fact that people aren't updating more on AI is like proof that they'll never update on new technology. It'll always just be like the way the world is, like they move the goalpost that quickly. So I think we're mid-singularity right now.

I think we're also, I think the metaverse is already here. I think people just have they they're picturing like something that's like two literally three dimensional to like grasp the idea that like we already spent all of our time plugged into the metaverse. We just call it the internet instead.

And the word metaverse has now become like, well, you have to have like goggles on and it has to be like fully immersive, but like in your brain, it's already immersive when you're like scrolling tick tock, right? So we're already getting more and more atomized in a certain way because of that. And so like basically like one, one possible world is that everybody's basically living in their own server essentially, like if you go to music festival right now and you don't have any friends there, then, you know, there's a bunch of other humans that are there, but you're kind of having your own experience too. I can see a world where like we have some shared reference teams, like there's some servers ever in goes into to like be together.

And then the rest of the time we're just completely off the road. That's basically what my life is like now. Like I don't spend, I used to be like, well, I was CEO and I go to the office every day and I'm like, what the, you know, there's like the same, you know, 70 people that are there and I talked to them and like now I just like read whatever's interesting to me and I travel the world all full time.

And so I'm already having my own kind of experience and I sometimes come back and I like, okay, I reconnect with you and we have a conversation about this. And I go back into my own, like my own channel, my own algorithmic feed. And yeah, but I agree that in general, like there's been more culture shock, you know, in the next like five years, then yeah, we will have seen it a long time because the, nothing in the ancestral environment prepared us for this.

Almost all of our training data as humans came from like millions of years of evolution of us just like roaming around in the savannah and like picking up fruit and occasionally throwing, you know, rocks at things. And now like, how is that useful now? And there's all these weird like consequences of it too. Like for example, like social media doesn't care what you did.

It only cares what you say. And so in a certain sense, like social media is being completely dominated right now by talkers, not doers. And so like talkers are like taking over the world.

And that's just a weird byproduct of Twitter, which I think of Twitter is like sort of like an organism. It's like a, it's like a living breathing thing that has its own sort of consciousness and intentions and identities. And I'm not saying that necessarily, but I mean, it like, it's, I think it's useful to think of all these different networks as being like their own organisms.

And like, they have their own goals and they're not the same goals that, that you as an individual have or like we as like a society have. And I find that when I model in that way, at least the kind of useful ideas. What I love about you is you always, you always

SPEAKER_00
know where things are going and you can kind of like almost close your eyes and picture a future. And I feel like it's all, it's very close to reality as a business builder yourself. And as someone who's constantly thinking of startup ideas, where do you see a lot of opportunity to create startups in this AI, you know, world that is being created? That's a good question.

Okay,

SPEAKER_01
so if you're trying to make money in AI, well, that's much harder than just making like awesome shit. There's like tons of like cool creative things you can make that will get a lot of eyeballs and attention. I did too much of that in my past, or it's not interesting.

It's not as interesting to me to like make something that goes viral. A lot of people see it and think it's cool because it doesn't convert anything that like I care about now. But yeah, if you just want to like make cool things that like a lot of people see and appreciate, you get a lot of like karma on the internet, then there's like infinite things to do there.

If you want to make money, then probably the best way to do it right now is like, basically like you want to start with like what is the most boring industry that like is the least sexy industry where the fewest people like you are interested in in building businesses there, you have to start there, you have to build something for them. By far the easiest way to make money is to like just pick a boring industry like Hainyman and like, you know, long cleaning and you know, things like that, right? So start with a boring industry and then figure out how to like use AI to help them solve a problem. So for example, like, you know, Peter levels made interior AI, you can like insert a picture of a room and it will like you can choose whatever style you want.

And then it'll like make the room look nice with that style. And like, you could easily just take a model like that and like, take a boring industry, like go to the real estate agents and just like, use that model and just like send them photos and like charge them for it, you know, so they can like virtually stage their listings. So some boring brick and mortar business that's doing something like the shitty old way and then just like help them and you won't win any kudos from like the tech elite for doing it, but like you will add value.

That's that's the best way to make money because those guys are still making money. And like I from my house here, I've had I still have to pay guys my cash and check in the year 20, you know, 23 to do random home repairs. And so those guys still can't accept any form of digital payment.

Like imagine what else they're not doing with their business. One way to think about it is

SPEAKER_00
how do you not become the number one product of the day on product? Right? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01
You don't ever do anything on product time. Like if you're if you're marketing launch plan involves products at all, don't do it. That's fiercely competitive.

You're competing with all the other 20 something males who want to start a business. And there's so many 20 something males that are like technologically sophisticated enough to like do something like don't compete with them, compete

SPEAKER_00
with a different market. And, and I know Ryan Hoover, the founder of product is a listener of the show. So that's no shade on you, Ryan.

It's really just, you know, there's some products that you do want to compete with. And there's some products that you don't want to compete with. And I think that with AI specifically, because it's like, let's be real, it is a gold rush.

And there's going to be a lot of attention and resources being put into startups that are being created in that space. It's only natural that tech people build stuff for other tech people. And that's going to be high, high competition.

So I think your point around, you know, start with a, you know, what is something that you know, like maybe you, you know, have friends that are gardeners, or you have connections in the retail space. Why don't you think about what are problems that you can solve for those people before solving problems for engineers, designers, product people.

SPEAKER_01
Exactly. Let's competition. Best producer of margins is competition.

Where there's competition, margins get compressed. And almost everybody squeezes down to like a 5% profit margin over time. And so the only way to like increase that number is to find some sort of market that doesn't have competition and AI plus boring brick and mortar business, especially if it's not like a big business, like something that's sort of atomized, like in every town, there's like a bunch of like, there's plumbers, there's electricians, there's HVAC guys, there's like local tax guys, there's a million of these local guys and they make like, you know, 50 to like 50,000 to like a couple million dollars a year.

And their businesses can use AI and they don't even need AI. Most of them just need like basic, like, I don't know, have you tried using any technology at all? Like you tried using like accepting PayPal, like that level of sophistication, much less needing AI, but AI for a lot of them will, will definitely add value.

SPEAKER_00
So the first point that you made was using AI to basically go viral. And you said that there's like a million ideas for that. Last week on the show, I had someone, a friend of my name, Danny, who, who, who had this model that he created using AI, it's called this model does not exist.

I actually posted about it on Twitter, it went viral, it, you know, had over a million impressions. What sort of framework do you have for thinking about how do you create something that gets a lot of buzz? And as you call it internet karma. Okay. Yeah. I guess there's two ways. One way is like,

SPEAKER_01
you're going to do this at scale versus you wanted to do one cool thing. So you want to do one cool thing. The best recommendation I've there is like, go look at all the other cool things people are doing.

And then just like, every time you see a cool thing, like go look at this model does not exist. Like open up a Google doc right now and like set a timer for like 30 minutes and just try to come up with ideas that are similar to that, but a little different. So instead of saying this model does not exist, delete the word, delete the word, delete the word, delete the word, delete the word, model, and then just like try inserting other words into it.

Come up with ideas for like, this blank does not exist. And so you can start with like a list of English words or like the most common English words or like different industries or something as a treat. So like search for like a list of like business types or something.

And then just like, insert those in and then generate like set a goal of generating a thousand ideas. For like, this blank does not exist. And like of those thousand, probably like 900 of them will be like garbage and like maybe 90 of them will be like mostly garbage and nine of them will be like, maybe not garbage.

And one of them will be fucking awesome. And it'll just be like so obviously a good idea. So I would do something like that.

And then, and then once you have a cool, like this blank does not exist idea, then like try to build it, right? And then you'll have to like play around with technology and, but it's not that hard anymore. But you know, it might take you like a few days to a few weeks, maybe even a few months if you really have a lot of priors to install to do it. So the easiest way to actually make something viral is like just copy something that already exists that's like viral and then just like modified a bit.

Basically my mental model here is like, if you just want to get attention, you should change it as little as possible from the original one. So for example, Danny did this model does not exist. And he has like an Instagram version of it, right? So you want to do something that's like not nearly as cool, but like still is really easy to do is like, you can just take like the same idea, but instead of doing it on Instagram, you could do the same thing on a different platform, right? Like you do like a TikTok version of it, where you have to figure out how to like make it.

So it's not just a picture anymore. It's a 3d version, right? That's not, that's, that's, that's much harder complex than, you know, it's much more complex than what Danny's doing. What Danny's doing is not complex.

You know, like I think he said, he built it in like, you know, a few hours, a few days or right. So maybe it takes you a few weeks to do, but you can have like a, you can have like a, a living, you know, breathing in a certain sense, like 3d version of a model that does not exist.

SPEAKER_00
To your point on find something that works and remix it just a little bit. That's exactly what Danny did. So there were a million AI generated models that existed.

Some of them that were successful like Lil Mikaela from, from broad, which has, you know, multiple millions of followers. But his riff on it was like, there's a bunch of photos that get generated on a website. People upvote the most interesting ones.

And the most interesting ones get posted on Instagram. So the community aspect around, Hey, let's go and like vote on this. And then people discuss it, right? And like sometimes the, the funny part is like, sometimes the AI sucks.

And like one of the most voted images last week was the model's name is A-list, two headed versions of A-list. And everyone's kind of like voting that up to post on Instagram because it's funny, right? So I think your 3d model idea is actually interesting. My issue with that is you want to also prioritize ease of creation.

So it's like, how can you come up with a viral idea that isn't so hard to create and is only like marginally harder to create than what exists out there? So I would be like, okay, maybe what does it look like to double down on social? Because right now he just says upvotes, like maybe there's a whole comment section, maybe there's like a whole social experience, maybe it's just more interactive. The other like idea I would have for a lot of folks, if they're trying to go viral is how do you leverage IP that is existing that you can tap into those brands to create interesting AI, offshoots, etc. So, you know, obviously someone like Disney has a ton of IP or, you know, your background in, you know, Harry Potter, right? Like, you know, how do you create like a Harry Potter world with AI and offshoots and, you know, maybe you tell stories, you know, new stories and, you know, using AI, etc.

So I think there's a lot you can do there. That's how I think about it. Yeah, I think another thing too is like basically

SPEAKER_01
most of the AI tools right now are chatbots. And chatbots are pretty obviously like just kind of the first step because it's really hard to like spontaneously think of a thing to say to a chatbot. And it's like bad UI.

Most people don't use search for most forms of navigation. And so it's really obvious to me that like, this is just kind of early days of AI. But what it's going to be is like first it starts with just a blank, you know, a blinking cursor in a search box where you have to like spontaneously think of what you want to ask the AI or what you want the AI to do.

And then good UI, like best practices will start to get embedded and it'll start to just like let you click between like, okay, do you want to make an image that's like, like this kind of art or this kind of art and you click on this kind of art, and then it goes into another, you know, and then you start clicking buttons and then pretty soon you have like a cool piece of art at the end. So if you want to escape where the puck is going, just take all the chatbots. There's like a million chatbots there, right? There's like, oh, historical figures, you can talk to like a chatbot that's like a store, like a chatbot of Socrates or a celebrity or whatever.

Take those chatbots and then just start adding UIs that aren't quite so like open ended. They walk people's hand through the process more. So they don't have to like try to think of something from scratch to say.

You can also like get distribution. So what I would do is like, I would probably take like the idea of a chatbot instead of having it be where people have to interact with the chatbot by typing at it. I would create like Twitter accounts and like Instagram accounts and stuff like that.

And so for example, let's say Twitter accounts. So let's say that you have like a Jordan Peterson chatbot. Well, Jordan Peterson has millions of fans and mostly people don't want to interact with the chatbot though.

So use the, use the Jordan Peterson trained chatbot to like generate content and then just like queue up like, you know, 500 tweets that are like fake Jordan Peterson quotes, then people know they know it's from a bot, right? It's like, like AI Jordan Peterson and then do that for like a thousand other, you know, influencers and thought leaders, right? So currently like a thousand different Twitter accounts that are all that are tweeting quotes that are like the AI version of them generated it. And then some of them will go viral because they're just like, you know, like some quote that like Jordan Peterson says is just like, it's like the fake, the AI Jordan Peterson says something. It's like super like hilarious or whatever.

And then it just goes viral, right? And so, so you can do that. You can do it with thought leaders, you know, celebrities can do it with anybody. Basically the way that I'd start is like, go look through all the existing AI tools.

There's a bunch of websites, a bunch of AI tools and say like, okay, how could I use these to make content and like algorithmically generate a bunch of content and then like create a feed that just tweets it. Like an example, this is there's a bunch of Twitter accounts that literally just tweet quotes from books and they have tons of following. Like you can follow the 48 loss of power bond.

All that Twitter account does has like hundreds of thousands of followers. All it does is tweet quotes from the book 48 loss of power. And there's a bunch of those Twitter accounts and you can easily do that for like any book that hasn't begun a following.

And you can do the same thing with like AI generated content as well. Like there's like a bunch of different, like there's like an AI magic card, you know, magic gathering card generator, and there's AI, you know, like Pokemon generators and like just take those like, and then just make social media accounts out of them where they tweet a lot or post less Instagram or whatever. And then you cross remote them.

So for example, you get one of the accounts that starts to get big, like the Jordan Peterson one, it starts doing well, and then you can like retweet your other accounts from that account. So if you have like a, like, you know, like Joe Rogan, like AI Joe Rogan bot, right? You can retweet it from the Jordan Peterson one to start getting people to find your other accounts. And then this is like the classic way that people get big social followings.

They get one big account and they start spinning up other like accounts that are kind of similar and they just cross remote it. That's what I would do in general is like think chatbots or like web 1.0. And like 2.0 is going to be like interfaces on top of chatbots and make it easier.

But if you want to go viral, just like take content and then just like make a bunch of social media accounts and like post a bunch of content, but try to make it so it's algorithmic. Try to make it so that you're not having to like do spend too much time, like making your own content. There's usually ways that you can automate yourself out of that if you're good at it.

Like the way Danny did it is smart. Like Danny's like, Oh, instead of having to pick the photos myself, I'll like automatically generate them and let people vote for the right ones. Right. So you can do versions of that. There's lots of ways you can do that.

It really just,

SPEAKER_00
my mind is just buzzing with ideas. It's kind of overwhelming. And that's one of the reasons I actually created a free AI community for people who are trying to like boost productivity for folks who are interested in learning about tools and prompts and chatting about other AI ideas.

You can apply for it. It's free. I'll send it out in my newsletter so you can subscribe.

Just, you know, go on your phone or however you're listening to this late checkout.substack.com, sign up to my newsletter.

I also send out the weekly episodes of the pod there. So I mean, if you're not subscribed, I don't know what you're doing. I include stuff like this, like launching the free community, et cetera.

So and Emerson, you should get in there and post your tool. You said you had like, you know, prompts and tools that you use. So you should definitely, I'm so

SPEAKER_01
excited about using AI for learning to learn purposes. Like, oh my God, it's just like a, it's a cornucopia of like exciting new, most of the tech is not quite there yet, but it's close, you know, like, like AI summarizers are not quite there. Like barely, you try to use barely summarized long articles, like it still kind of sucks.

But like, you get like, it's so clearly not more than like months to like a few years away to where like, it'll be able to something like really, really, really fucking tightly summarize like a long, complex, like article into like a couple paragraphs. And so yeah, there's just a lot to be excited by. I saw the chairman of Alphabet.

He said yesterday

SPEAKER_00
that I guess he's getting a lot of pressure like, why doesn't, you know, Google and what, you know, why is Google quote unquote late to the game with with the chat GPT competitor? And his response was basically like, Oh, AI isn't there yet. It's one to two years away. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, big OOF. So I mean, my take on that is, you know, it's a convenient thing to say. And, you know, how could you say that AI isn't there yet when chat GPT has 100 million active users, right? There's definitely a lot of demand.

There's definitely a lot that is missing from AI, but in some of these experiences, but it's still pretty cool. And there's a lot going on. So just got to stay on it.

If you're a web two guy, just make you eyes for

SPEAKER_01
AI. That's the problem right now. It's still you have to type stuff.

That's so obviously like

SPEAKER_00
what you're saying there is really like, you know, when you call an Uber and there's like pre filled like be right there. Yes, you're basically saying that, right? Exactly. Like make it so

SPEAKER_01
that people just have to click. There's they only have a few buttons per screen that they can pick from. And then like help them like with just a few button taps, get to some outcome that they want.

They should never have to like type something in like typing should be like typing is almost always a sign of like a UI failure because most people don't have that many different use cases for whatever that product is. So like just help them out by just giving them a few buttons that

SPEAKER_00
they can, that they can tap. Emerson sparts giga brain, you know, drop in knowledge. Thanks for coming on.

Thanks for sharing some wisdom. Where could people follow you criminally under fallout? As I mentioned, where could they find you? Yeah, I'm still I'm still mostly in hermit

SPEAKER_01
mode right now. At some point, I will reemerge from the shadows into the public eye a bit. But I do occasionally tweet.

So Twitter would be the best. It's at Emerson sparts SPAR TZ.

SPEAKER_00
And can you confirm you're not an AI? Is there anything that I can say that would confirm that I'm not AI? That's true. Touche Touche. All right, man.

Thanks for coming on to rap. Thanks, man.